Battery Types?

G

Grazer

New member
Hello All,

I am looking at installing a Pro Mariner Pro Sport 12 dual bank battery charger. The installation instructions say "Do NOT mix battery types on-board. All batteries should be of the same age and in good operating condition." I am planning on using a 660 CCA lead acid starting/deep cycle battery for my START battery and for my HOUSE battery a AGM Deep Cycle battery. They are similar in age. Are they the same type of batteries and will they work with the ProSport 12?

The charge setting for the ProSport is set from the factory for lead acid batteries and one can change it to gel cell setting. There is a CAUTION - "To reduce the risk of injury; charge only lead acid type rechargeable batteries (lead acid, sealed lead acid, gel cell and AGM)." It seems to me, this sentence reads that lead acid batteries and AGM batteries are both types of rechargeable lead acid batteries. Am I understanding this correctly?

Grazer
 
I can see where that would be confusing because of their terms. Here is how I understand it:

1) Basically all the batteries we use for starting and house functions on our boats are lead acid batteries. So in that way they are the same "type." (In other words, I think AGM's and Gels are lead acid batteries too.)

2) But within that category are three types:

a) Wet or flooded cell (these are the "usual" batteries we've traditionally had in cars, etc.).

b) Gel

c) AGM

My guess is that it's the [sub] types a,b, and c that they want you to have matching in both banks (so that you can set the charger to one of the types and it will work for both banks). I think that when they say "lead acid" they mean the flooded cell [sub] type specifically (so that could cause confusion because that umbrella really contains gel and AGM too, I believe).

Luckily others will come along and eliminate my guessing though :)

Sunbeam
 
The Prosport has only two settings for charging cycles - one for wet/AGM's; one for gel cell lead acid batteries. While I agree they are all lead acid type batteries, the question remains can I charge the Start Battery (wet) and my House (AGM) from the dual bank charger.
 
I see what you mean. If there is one setting for flooded/AGM, and you have one flooded and one AGM, can you use that charger? (Even if not optimum, would it work okay in the real world?) I don't know the answer but I can see why you are asking given what is in the manual. Sorry about the "non answer" above.
 
AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) and Gel batteries are very different from the standard lead-acid battery. They may require different charging voltages and different charging profiles.

So bu same type, they mean that all batteries must be lead-acid, or all AGM< or all Gel. It's a bad idea to mix types as you'll shorten their life.

This advice also can apply to batteries charged by the engine. Beware the Yamaha specifically says not to use AGM batteries on their mid sized outboards (50, 70 etc) as they charge system won't support them. It probably has to do with how the charge is regulated.

Hope this helps!
 
That's interesting about the Yamaha info. I wonder why that is? What I mean is that, from what I've read, all of our typical outboards (40hp to 150hp, say) basically have "dumb" chargers that don't really do a very good job as compared to today's "smart" type chargers (where you can set float, absorption, etc.).

I wonder what is specifically different on those particular Yamahas, and/or why they say that? I feel like I read some threads on this here some time ago [found in a search] and it ended up being a "non valid" reason, but now I can't remember what it was, specifically (so take my mutterings with a large grain of salt).

Edited to add: Here is a link to the thread I remembered. I haven't yet re-read all four pages to remind myself of the outcome. Maybe we can continue discussing there if anyone wants to.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=10916

Sorry about the hijack, Grazer (but at least I didn't start it this time :wink)

Sunbeam
 
Gazer,
Why do you want an AGM house battery?

I ran a 115 Yamaha for 4 years (until I sold the boat) with a group 27 AGM battery, no problems). Most outboards will not fully charge any battery, so a top off with a good charger every few days is good. For example last summer I was running two group 24 batteries as the house and starting--lead acid. I was also running a freezer off a group 31 AGM, and each day I would charge it separately with a 30 amp charger--then I would use the boat 2 bank battery charger (Master volt) to charge the house and engine start at the same time--using a Honda EU 1000I.

If you are careful with the AGM and lead acid you can charge them together with a VSR. Top each off with the battery charger. I would not use them in parallel, except in an emergency.

Matt, most Lead Acid profile battery chargers will charge an AGM battery fine--but not as fast as some of the specific chargers. The 30 amp charger I use for the AGM, has a separate AGM profile, but I have run AGM's for years off a standard lead acid profile battery charger. I read in one place that Yamaha had not tested the AGM batteries, and that was why--also they wanted to be sure that the battery had the adequate CCA (MCA) capacity. You are not going to hurt either the engine alternator (charging system) or the battery.
 
Bob,
The reason I went with an AGM was that it was the only one I could find locally at the time that was deep cycle in Group 24 size. Also, I needed it to slid in on an angle into the area aft in the starboard larazette.

I posed this query to the folks at Pro Mariner and they said that it " will be fine with this setup to charge these two batteries because the charge profile for standard AGM batteries and flooded lead acid batteries are the same."

So I'll connect my batteries to my switch with a VSR to charge while underway and hook my boat charger to a land based 110V when not using the boat.

Thanks all who provided information.
Chars :beer
 
I'm thinking its time to replace the batteries in both the dory and Airstream. I am considering AGMs in the Airstream and maybe for Constant Craving as well. The Airstreamers like Lifelines, but at $280 a copy for group 24s, that's a chunk of change.

Is anyone using other brands of AGMs (Costco...)? What's your experience? Any recommendations?

Thanks!!
 
Sam's club has AGM batteries, which are made by East Penn, about same as Sears--at over $100 less per battery. I have group 31 and they seem to be very good. Ours in Fl are Duracell (ONLY AVAILABLE IN AL, CT, DE, FL, GA, IL, IN, KY, MA, MD, ME, MI, MS, NC, NH, NJ, NY, OH, PA, RI, SC, TN, VA, AND WV)

Some are Energizer (ONLY AVAILABLE IN AK, AR, AZ, CA, CO, HI, IA, ID, KS, LA, MN, MO, MT, ND, NE, NM, NV, OK, SD, TX, UT, WA, WI, and WY). Not sure if there is any difference, but specs seem about the same.
 
I have found good product, prices, and staff at one of the batteries + stores locally. Seamate AGMs are good too. I have an Optima that has held up for 4 years so far but some folks have had less luck with them.

Greg
 
I've personally had great results with Odessey marine batteries the past 12 years after abandoning Optimas.
http://www.odysseybattery.com/
Downside: one of six I've bought went weak prior to the generous 3 year replacement warranty and the factory wouldn't replace it after Web dealer quit carrying it unless I sent it back for testing. They weigh more than most for a reason (more virgin lead) and seem to me a reasonable compromise between Rolls/Lifeline/golf cart etc and WalMart/Penn/SeaVolt. Also, auto version got a primo rating from Consumers Reports.
Now Odessey is making Sears diehard Platinum Marine batteries with a 3 year full warranty so when my House went weak in June I replaced it with a group 31, 1150(!) CCA, 106 RM. They went on a 10% off +$65 rebate sale last week so I replaced the 2 engine Dekka batteries (mfg in 2009) as well for <$230 each. The same (model 1700) Odessey battery ($360) is still going strong after 5 years in the Regal 2665 with hard use (sold). I like all batteries on the same charger to be the same age/brand/type (Odessey/Sears specifies the lead acid charging profile). I can tip it, no prying off caps with acid to spill, safe recharging even in the cabin, (THAT is unique in my research) std issue for F-16's and M1 Abrams as well as Coast Guard (Bollinger built) patrol boats (they get 10). Works fine on it's side. Bulletproof, if you ever get really, REALLY mad at it.
Overkill? yes, for some. Underkill? yes, for some. But I sleep better, and I've had a SeaTow card for 30 years and never used it.
Some say, buy the Sears Platinum DieHard (Odessey) auto battery with a 4 year flat warranty, but I say how would Sears test it if not in your car?
The Batteries + etc stores charge much more for the Odessey 1700, and Sears always seems more willing to warranty replace stuff in my experience. Replacing a battery in the Regal meant removing the cockpit cover, heaving it onto the transom and painful contortions that made us never want to do it again, or more often than every 5-6 years. It was so easy on the Tom Cat that I might take Dr Bob's advice next time and go Max Value rather than Almost Best. Also realize that when you over-discharge any battery to 50% (11.5 volts) without recharging (can happen easily) life expectancy/recharging cycles will be dramatically shortened.
Your Mileage may (and most certainly will!) differ, but that's what we all expect!
Cheers!
John and Eileen
 
As long as we are talking batteries. Does the engine automatically recharge the battery when in use or does it simply maintain the charge that you started with? How long would you go between trips before considering to put on the charger to bring the batteries up to full charge?
 
The engine alternator puts out a certain charging amperage when running and sends that, minus the electrical power needed to operate the engine, to the battery. There is often a battery controller of some kind in the circuit to prevent overcharging but if you run the engine for a few hours the battery will likely be fully charged. A battery will slowly discharge while connected to the boat circuit so many people keep their battery on a trickle charger while the boat is out of the water and then start with a fully charged battery. We use a solar panel to keep C-Cakes batteries charged between trips.
 
Stan Major":12o7mti3 said:
As long as we are talking batteries. Does the engine automatically recharge the battery when in use or does it simply maintain the charge that you started with? How long would you go between trips before considering to put on the charger to bring the batteries up to full charge?
Click to expand...
A lot depends on the alternator and how much you use the battery. We like to have a house battery (or 2) and an engine start battery. We have a 16 amp alternator, because of an older Honda 90--new ones are about 40 amps. I suspect that on your 16 you will probably have a lower output alternator, but not use a lot of power. Since we run a freezer on our longer trips (which most are), we do run a small Honda Generator, with both a 20 and 30 amp battery charger. The 20 amp unit is for the Engine start and House--and the 30 amp is for the dedicated freezer battery. We would hae to run a long time to put the 40 to 50 amps used by the freezer.

I believe that every week or so, you should top off the battery with the shore power charger--for at least 12 hours. This way the battery gets fully charged. When cruising, and only running a few hours a day- often the battery is not fully charged (about 80% is fairly easy to put in, but the last 10 to 20% is more difficult.
 
After reading the latest addition to this thread, I realized it was mine. Good time too. After having the boat at a Marina for the past two months without additional shore supply my '03 Honda 90 (16 amp output) kept the batteries up all summer. The runs were long enough to charge up fully at the end of the day and my draws were minimal. When I got home, l plugged the charger (ProSport 12) in and within approximately 20 minutes the batteries were ready and both at 13.42 V. So it would seem using two slightly different lead acid batteries (one AGM and one standard lead acid) with the dual bank charger works well.

Cheers :beer ,
Grazer
 
Battery disconnect switches are a great invention. Typically, we will shut off both start batteries and the house battery when we are not on the boat unless we will be off for only a few hours. I've yet to actually need shore battery charging. However, during the off season, I remove all three and keep them in the garage and put them on a full automatic charger once every month. Other than that, they don't see shore charging. Every thing seems to work fine with that protocol.
 
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