Auto piolot
- Thread starter coopejon
- Start date
Do you have hydraulic steering? TR1 is that the Garmin product? A lot of the C-Brats use the Raymarine Smart pilot S 1000 which is designed to work with boats up to 25' equipped with hydraulic steering. $1069. in Defender's catalog. www.defender.com
I know of 22's with twin forties using the S 1000 model autopilot the remote control that comes with it also works great.
D.D.
I know of 22's with twin forties using the S 1000 model autopilot the remote control that comes with it also works great.
D.D.
jkidd
Active member
Garmin's TR1 Gold is designed to steer kicker motors it has a small hydraulic cylinder that mount down on the motor to steer it. I don't think it would work with other types of steering connected to it.
Garmin's GHP 10 autopilot only works with hydraulic steering. It does use a heading sensor.
Raymarine's S-1000 only works with hydraulic steering and uses the gps to guide it. If you are going to use it to fish below 2 mph it will shut off on you. If you are going to cruise above 2 mph then it should work great. Raymarine does have the sport pilot for mechanical steering.
If you have a mechanical steered boat I would convert it and use one of the hydraulic units.
Garmin's GHP 10 autopilot only works with hydraulic steering. It does use a heading sensor.
Raymarine's S-1000 only works with hydraulic steering and uses the gps to guide it. If you are going to use it to fish below 2 mph it will shut off on you. If you are going to cruise above 2 mph then it should work great. Raymarine does have the sport pilot for mechanical steering.
If you have a mechanical steered boat I would convert it and use one of the hydraulic units.
I am looking at the Raymarine spx-5r
I talked to a guy with the model you are looking at and he was trying to sell it one year later ...after he bought the spx-5.
He liked his new spx-5. I wanted to buy his old one but after looking at the reviews on line I have decided against it....and his used one was so cheap
He had trouble the tracking at low speeds and moderate seas
I will bite the bullitt for the extra $ unless something better comes up. I am going to purchase in the next few days
Chris
I talked to a guy with the model you are looking at and he was trying to sell it one year later ...after he bought the spx-5.
He liked his new spx-5. I wanted to buy his old one but after looking at the reviews on line I have decided against it....and his used one was so cheap
He had trouble the tracking at low speeds and moderate seas
I will bite the bullitt for the extra $ unless something better comes up. I am going to purchase in the next few days
Chris
starcrafttom
Active member
The tr-1 is for kickers and fishing. Its one of the best autopilots ever made if you are fishing. The new Garmin autopilots are for bigger motors with Hydraulic systems and have most of the same features as the tr-1 not including the throttle control of the tr-1.
I have not used the new garmin yet but would love to spend a day on a boat with one. I have used the tr-1 on several boat while fishing. If you have used one you will never want another autopilot for fishing. Ocean or river it does it all
Do you already have a tr-1 that you may not need? If so give me a call or email.
I have not used the new garmin yet but would love to spend a day on a boat with one. I have used the tr-1 on several boat while fishing. If you have used one you will never want another autopilot for fishing. Ocean or river it does it all
Do you already have a tr-1 that you may not need? If so give me a call or email.
I am shopping for a c-dory and i would really like twins. The boats I am looking at do not have autopiolot and its really important to me to be able to troll in the ocean and rivers with an auto piolot. Remote throttle controll would be nice but mainly I am looking to get away from the helm I am concerned about the capability of trolling at slow speeds. does ayone have a solution to this. I am planning on a boat with hydrolic steering. If I cant solve the problem I will start looking for one with a main and a kicker so I can get a TR-1
thanks for the help!
thanks for the help!
I have to chime in here. I have to admit that I've become increasingly frustrated with the S-1000's inability to troll at slow speeds, which is necessary for salmon fishing. But of course, this is only when you're trolling against the current and the gps SOG usually shows slower than 1.9mph. I guess if I consistently picked up and ran back to the top and always trolled with the current, it would be a moot point. :wink
Otherwise, the S-1000 does a great job with higher speed auto piloting, it works great just pressing a button and then watching as the boat navigates in a straight line. Especially in a chop.
Peter
Otherwise, the S-1000 does a great job with higher speed auto piloting, it works great just pressing a button and then watching as the boat navigates in a straight line. Especially in a chop.
Peter
Slow speed tracking? Use a Flux-gate compass input to your AP system.
This is a little off the wall, but on Sea Angel I have the Raymarine ST6001, Smart Pilot System, with the S1G flux-gate compass controlling the 2 HONDA 90s. The compass is the secret here for slow speed tracking where there is a GPS input as well as the Flux-gate heading inputs. This compass setup is more expensive; but, I still find it reliable. The AP system has been in service since 2005.
Art
This is a little off the wall, but on Sea Angel I have the Raymarine ST6001, Smart Pilot System, with the S1G flux-gate compass controlling the 2 HONDA 90s. The compass is the secret here for slow speed tracking where there is a GPS input as well as the Flux-gate heading inputs. This compass setup is more expensive; but, I still find it reliable. The AP system has been in service since 2005.
Art
starcrafttom
Active member
If your main use, or even 50% of the time, is fishing then I would go with a single and a kicker. The main difference is no difference. If you loose the single main or the one of the twins then you are going to be in the same boat, so to speak. Either way you will be coming back to port at hull speed. A 40hp is not going to plane the boat by its self if its loaded for cruising. A 50 might do it in a light boat. So if your second big motor is not going to get you on plane and its not that great for trolling? why have it?
I think that most motor malfunctions that are going to leave you floating on the current are going to be one of two things. Props or gas. If its props, you ran over something, then you are most likely going to get both of them if you are running twins. Sure there are times you dont but I remember pat getting both of his on the 22 day dream. Even if you just take out one prop its still a slow run on the second motor to safe water. I think that having a kicker to get to a safe area and then changing out the prop with a spare is a better plan then just twins, Yes you could carry two props but thats just more stuff to carry. If it's gas then the twins are going to get the same thing at the same time. If you clog a filter you are going to clog both. I carry a small extra gas can for the kicker just in case. I can go quite a long way on a kicker and two gallons.
Now as for which autopilot. The tr-1 is hands down the best for trolling and the only one that has throttle control. you can adjust your own throttle by hand but it will never be as good as a tr-1 and the 50rpm's at a time adjustment. My Nissan had two rpm stops, to fast and to slow. Now you can buy just the throttle control from several out fits and then use a autopilot that runs the main and the kicker. That is most likely what I will be doing until I can afford the tr-1 system.
I think that most motor malfunctions that are going to leave you floating on the current are going to be one of two things. Props or gas. If its props, you ran over something, then you are most likely going to get both of them if you are running twins. Sure there are times you dont but I remember pat getting both of his on the 22 day dream. Even if you just take out one prop its still a slow run on the second motor to safe water. I think that having a kicker to get to a safe area and then changing out the prop with a spare is a better plan then just twins, Yes you could carry two props but thats just more stuff to carry. If it's gas then the twins are going to get the same thing at the same time. If you clog a filter you are going to clog both. I carry a small extra gas can for the kicker just in case. I can go quite a long way on a kicker and two gallons.
Now as for which autopilot. The tr-1 is hands down the best for trolling and the only one that has throttle control. you can adjust your own throttle by hand but it will never be as good as a tr-1 and the 50rpm's at a time adjustment. My Nissan had two rpm stops, to fast and to slow. Now you can buy just the throttle control from several out fits and then use a autopilot that runs the main and the kicker. That is most likely what I will be doing until I can afford the tr-1 system.
starcrafttom
Active member
Sea angle I had a campass as you suggest on my st6001 and it helps but as soon as the current starts to drag you backwards in a rip the raymarine will think you are forward in the wrong direction and trys to spin the boat around and bang, your lines and ball are all crossed up. happen to me all the time.
If you halibut, ling or just bottom fish and you want to stay over a rock the raymarine will not work for you. You have to be moving for it to work. The tr-1 will hold you in one spot. and it will do so with the motor in reverse. Just point the ass of the boat into the current or wind and set the boat tr-1 for reverse and the throttle so it just holds you in the current and the tr-1 will hold you in place.
This is starting to become a feature in larger boats with IPS drives. They call it Sky Hook or somthing. You pull up to a dock and hit the button and the boat stays there. Even in a current or wind. You ready you lines or pour another drink while the boat just stays there. I saw a utube video were the captian pulled up to the dock, hit the button and got out to tie up the lines himself. boat just stayed at the dock.
If you halibut, ling or just bottom fish and you want to stay over a rock the raymarine will not work for you. You have to be moving for it to work. The tr-1 will hold you in one spot. and it will do so with the motor in reverse. Just point the ass of the boat into the current or wind and set the boat tr-1 for reverse and the throttle so it just holds you in the current and the tr-1 will hold you in place.
This is starting to become a feature in larger boats with IPS drives. They call it Sky Hook or somthing. You pull up to a dock and hit the button and the boat stays there. Even in a current or wind. You ready you lines or pour another drink while the boat just stays there. I saw a utube video were the captian pulled up to the dock, hit the button and got out to tie up the lines himself. boat just stayed at the dock.
Starcrafttom,
Thanks for the insight on he current holding situation. I have not experienced anything like that here. I am not a fisherman, so I yield to the field. For me to hold a position, I just ride the throttles of each OB for direction and advance.
The next time I am out I will try to see how my CD handles this situation with my AP as you described and educate myself further.
Art
Thanks for the insight on he current holding situation. I have not experienced anything like that here. I am not a fisherman, so I yield to the field. For me to hold a position, I just ride the throttles of each OB for direction and advance.
The next time I am out I will try to see how my CD handles this situation with my AP as you described and educate myself further.
Art
I was all set to put the TR-1 on C-Dawg last winter, but went with the GHC 10, instead. I have a Merc 90 and a Merc 9.9 for a kicker. I had the Raymarine S1000 for the big motor and figured I'd put the TR-1 on my kicker. However, I was becoming unhappy with the performance of the S1000, so it wasn't too hard for someone to talk me into getting the GHC 10 instead. I have a tie-bar between motors for steerage. I also have a Trollmaster throttle control for my kicker, so I can control the kicker throttle from the helm seat.
With the GHC 10's heading sensor, I now have radar overlay on my Furuno chart plotter. Everything is mounted inside the cabin, and the pump is super quiet. It has the reverse feature, like the TR-1, and it has Shadow Drive so you can instantly take the helm when the AP is engaged at cruising speeds.
A few things that concerned me about the TR-1 is that it has to be mounted outside near the kicker, so for me that meant in the port lazzarette, which I currently use for storage of tackle boxes, wood shampoo (fish whacker), washdown hose, etc. The TR-1 also has more parts exposed to the elements to break. The controller is tethered to the unit with a cable (about 10', I think). The wireless remote is extra. I didn't like the thought of having a tethered controller laying around.
So, if I were looking at a boat with twins, I'd get the GHC 10. You'll have an AP to use on the way out to the fishing grounds, an AP to slow troll with, and an AP for the run back to the harbor. And with radar installed (which is imperative if you're fishing off-shore, IMHO.), you'll have overlay capabilities.
I'm not a Garmin rep, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, and this AP is one of the best additions I've added to C-Dawg.
With the GHC 10's heading sensor, I now have radar overlay on my Furuno chart plotter. Everything is mounted inside the cabin, and the pump is super quiet. It has the reverse feature, like the TR-1, and it has Shadow Drive so you can instantly take the helm when the AP is engaged at cruising speeds.
A few things that concerned me about the TR-1 is that it has to be mounted outside near the kicker, so for me that meant in the port lazzarette, which I currently use for storage of tackle boxes, wood shampoo (fish whacker), washdown hose, etc. The TR-1 also has more parts exposed to the elements to break. The controller is tethered to the unit with a cable (about 10', I think). The wireless remote is extra. I didn't like the thought of having a tethered controller laying around.
So, if I were looking at a boat with twins, I'd get the GHC 10. You'll have an AP to use on the way out to the fishing grounds, an AP to slow troll with, and an AP for the run back to the harbor. And with radar installed (which is imperative if you're fishing off-shore, IMHO.), you'll have overlay capabilities.
I'm not a Garmin rep, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, and this AP is one of the best additions I've added to C-Dawg.
jkidd
Active member
I have the Garmin GHP-10 autopilot on the main motor and a tie bar to the trolling motor. I have the Trollmaster for speed control on the trolling motor. Everything works very well and it will troll as slow as you can go. It will also back troll, some day I will get to use that function. There are install pics in my album.
starcrafttom
Active member
Its good to hear that the Garmin unit has the same features as the tr-1 for back trolling and holding in a current. I have but have not installed a throttle controler for my kicker. its on the long list of honeydos. I will feel better about getting the garmin unit as a auto pilot. I would love to use one for a day first.
More penny thoughts: [No change available without consent.]
I see where the APs have come a long way since I bought my ST6001/S1G system in 2005. The newer OB controllers are even controlling the throttles. I believe all APs primary function is directional control.
I guess one minor observation is that most hydraulic steering has about a
+/- 22 degree swing for directional control, unlike the greater range of a rudder system. For radical changes, you sure have to be on top of the situation and hopefully have wiggle room or twins.
My system has an adjustable sensitivity control for the response time to heading changes due to external forces.
The gyro compass will allow for holding a fixed heading in a current without any SOG; whearas with only a GPS input it will not, because it lacks a SOG when holding below a threshold and could even disconnect. This same gyro/flux-gate compass, as noted earlier, allows an overlay presentation of the RADAR over the chart display, which I find very helpful in rain and foul WX.
If I had to replace my present system, I would look very strongly at a single manufactured system(package) with local support. I would keep my present parameters and add any enhancements where practical, such as AIS to the display.
Above all, I am still responsible to keep a lookout to keep others and my vessel safe. I must continue to practice using my navigation 'tools', with or without the electronics.
I guess I better close my door on this and wish everyone happy and safe boating and productive fishing.
Art
I see where the APs have come a long way since I bought my ST6001/S1G system in 2005. The newer OB controllers are even controlling the throttles. I believe all APs primary function is directional control.
I guess one minor observation is that most hydraulic steering has about a
+/- 22 degree swing for directional control, unlike the greater range of a rudder system. For radical changes, you sure have to be on top of the situation and hopefully have wiggle room or twins.
My system has an adjustable sensitivity control for the response time to heading changes due to external forces.
The gyro compass will allow for holding a fixed heading in a current without any SOG; whearas with only a GPS input it will not, because it lacks a SOG when holding below a threshold and could even disconnect. This same gyro/flux-gate compass, as noted earlier, allows an overlay presentation of the RADAR over the chart display, which I find very helpful in rain and foul WX.
If I had to replace my present system, I would look very strongly at a single manufactured system(package) with local support. I would keep my present parameters and add any enhancements where practical, such as AIS to the display.
Above all, I am still responsible to keep a lookout to keep others and my vessel safe. I must continue to practice using my navigation 'tools', with or without the electronics.
I guess I better close my door on this and wish everyone happy and safe boating and productive fishing.
Art
I thought that 2500 dollars for a TR-1 Gold auto pilot for a kicker was a bit much for our blood. The Garmin auto pilot is a known to be a good auto pilot. At 2000 to 2500 they aren't cheap either at double the cost of a Raymine S1000. Where you install the hydraulic pump can reduce the noise from the pump if that would be an issue. Ours is under the sink area and is not really noticable. I guess it depends on how you use your boat. I just wasn't sure about the radar overlay part of one of the posts. We use a Garmin 4208 with, sonar, HD radar, fuel management along with a Raymarine S 1000 auto pilot and have radar overlay. I was not sure what the Garmin auto pilot had to do with radar overlay? Does the Garmin auto pilot automatically avoid approaching radar targets? :smile Just asking.
D.D.
D.D.
I having radar overlay while I was stopped was not something I ever considered. Learn something new everyday. We use a laptop with Coastal Explorer for navagation and use our radar not much in the overlay mode . It looks like going real slow (under 3mph) or stopping costs a lot of extra cash. Glad we don't fish like that or sit still in the fog much, different strokes for different folks. Good to be ready for anything I guess.
D.D.
D.D.