Anchoring system advice needed

The slot may look creepy but if you anchor in an area hang-ups are an issue it can save your bacon. For the uninitiated, the idea is you can motor around 180 deg then pull. The chain should slide toward the head at which point you'll probably get your anchor back.

Due to all the logging activity in and around Portland over the last century there can be lots of debris on the river bottom. In the past I've used a Columbia river anchor with the chain attached at the bottom then zip tied around the shank - a very common technique in this area with big water and heavy current. More than once my anchor has fouled and after the 180 pull has torn the zip ties off the anchor was retrieved. I'm contemplating this now with my Delta.

Having said all this, I've not had to deal with tides swinging the boat around 180 and that might give me pause. If hangups were an issue and I wanted this anchor I'd probably call the factory for re-assurance.
 
williwaw":3339k1vq said:
The slot may look creepy but if you anchor in an area hang-ups are an issue it can save your bacon.
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I hear you, and that's why I mentioned unattended boat or overnighting. I worry that the pull on the anchor could be somewhat reversed (tide, wind, swing, wake, etc.) and then it would do just what it is supposed to do, which is release easily. Not cool!

However for a lunch hookup or fishing (I suppose, although I'm not an angler), I could see it. I've also been on dive boats where they run the rode up to the hole in the other end of the anchor shank (by the flukes) and then just zip tie it into position at the "normal" attachment end. The idea is the same: The anchor will hold for fair situations but release in foul ones.

I have set a separate trip line to the hole at the fluke end with other anchors in other times, but not often. I can see that if you were fishing or lunch-hooking often (and in foul ground), the slot could come in handy.
 
One has to be careful reading anchor "tests". Bottoms are different--even in the "same area"--once you drag a single anchor thru an area, the bottom is changed. It is not uncommon for two boats, with the same anchors and seemingly the same technique; one anchor sets, the other doesn't.

Also one has to be a bit cautious, because various people are pushing their anchors. The use of "efficiency" graphs to promote a single type of anchor can be misleading--again, different bottoms, and different holding characteristics. Peter Smith has been in a "battle" with Manson Supreme, since it may or may not have been copied from his Ronca design. Unfortunately Ronca suffered from some bad metallurgy and galvanizing. Manson early had some problems with the tip (welded two piece rather than single piece to give a heavier tip. Some anchors put lead in the tip to give better penetration.

One of the older studies--and unbiased by US sailing in 1994 and 1995:

http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets/Offshore/SAS+Studies/anchor+study.pdf

http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets/Offshore/SAS+Studies/1994+anchor+test.pdf (not quite as good a study as the one above which was a year later and to help rectify the irregularities in this study) One feature which repeats during both of these studies, is that the Fortress remains at the top of anchors, in the right conditions. So it still is high on the list of kedge anchors, and stern anchors as well as a back up storm anchor in the large sizes.

I spent most of this afternoon trying to find unbiased studies of the new generation of anchors. I could not find one which did not seem biased and included all of the newer anchors. Some which have not been mentioned are Anchor right (SARCA, Excel, etc) Manta (US company which has produced many videos where their anchor is the only one which holds--I don't believe this, but there are some good antidotal reports of good holding for this anchor. It bolts into 3 pieces. I am not sure why bolts are used vs welding--in the small anchors--in large anchors it make sense. The Spade, the Ultra, There is a long list of other anchors tested along the way.

Specifically I was looking for the reports on the Manson Boss. I did find two reports of the Manson Boss shackle preventer (the bolt which keeps the shackle at the business end of the shank, instead of sliding down the slot, and allowing the anchor to pull out if the pull was reversed. It appears that both failures of this bolt were when the anchor was being brought aboard in boats and sheared off when hitting the bracket of the anchor roller.

Although Manson says that the "Boss" is designed for power boats, it is finding a lot of popularity on sailboats where the roll bar (both it and the Ronca) was causing problems on the bow sprit. (I would have had this problem on the 62 foot ketch we took Calif. to Europe and back. I carried a 75 Lb CQR on one side of the bow sprit, coming thru the teak grating on the Stb side and a 60 lb Danforth High Test on the port side.)

I agree that I have concerns about the "slot"--on several occasions I have tied trip lines to the crown of my anchors when in areas where the anchor might hang up. Once a commercial boat ran over it , and tripped the anchor when they wound the trip line in their prop. Another time, a boater tried to pick up the float for a "mooring" even though the float was clearly labeled "Trip line".
 
My first Manson Boss had bad galvanizing.
They've been redesigned slightly and have a different preventer bolt.
 
Sunbeam":ia86mu0y said:
I did spend some time on a 64' ketch that had just replaced their CQR with a *huge* Rocna (same basic shape as Supreme). I think it was 125# or maybe a bit more. I still remember the first time we anchored with it. I was in the bunk on my off-watch. Near the end of my sleep time, so fairly groggy but basically awake. I heard the chain rattle out and sort of waited for the familiar sounds and feel of the rest of the anchoring routine. Sure enough, after a bit I heard the engines go into reverse to back down on the anchor. We no sooner started moving when "Errrrrrt!" we stopped short, just as if we had hit a wall. It was weird! No smooth transition... just "Errrrrt!" instant stop! As I found out on subsequent stops, that's just how it set. Interesting.
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We replaced New Moon's 7.5 kg Bruce with a 10kg Rocna three years ago now. The Bruce was a good match for conditions in BC and SE AK. It usually set quickly, seemed to reset well when the wind changed direction, and never dragged except when the set was not really good, in soft mud or thick kelp. Similar good results with our CD22's 5kg Bruce. But I thought bigger might be a good idea, especially if we ever found ourselves in really horrendous conditions, and maybe a more modern design as well.

The Rocna does just as Sunbeam describes - sets almost instantly with a very noticable solid stop, cushioned by the rope part of the rode. When I back on it to test the set, its holding power seems terrific except in soft bottoms, which are pretty rare where we cruise. Even in kelpy bottoms, it sets first time more often than not, way better than the Bruce which sometimes took 3 tries in kelp. A great confidence-builder. And it's self-launching, which the Bruce would not do because of its straight shank.

Our rode is 46' of 1/4" HT chain, spliced to 300' of 1/2" three-strand. Our backup anchor is a Fortress FX-11, which also makes a great stern anchor for Lake Powell.

BTW, our Rocna does not seem to have the quality problems (welding and galvanizing, at least) that showed up in some Rocna's in 2010, after manufacturing was moved from New Zealand to China. They seem to have been fixed with Canada Metal's ownership of Rocna. There were recalls and new guarantees as well.
 
PaulNBriannaLynn what French made SS shackle did you buy? What is the safe working load and yield load? As Sunbeam pointed out, the Shackle is the weakest link (although it is rare that the C Dory will get into conditions where a good shackle will be stressed)[/quote]

It was a Wichard anchor shackle. I couldnt find the specs on it anymore, but I seem to remember it being rated for around 7500 lbs or so? I was having a hard time finding a shackle that was both big enough to pivot in the slot of the anchor, but also small enough to fit through that slot of the 22# anchor.... if that makes any sense. The Wichard fit the bill.
 
I've been using Wichard SS shackles for many years - plenty sturdy, and no rust. My recollection was a rating of 2700 kg, about 6,000 lb. Working load about 2,200 lb.
 
Paul,
Thank you! I have used Wichard for many years. They are an excellent product--although I have had one SS spinnaker shackle fail--which was replaced under warrantee.

Here are the specs on the Stainless Wichard Bow Shackles (Forged in France). They make shackles calibrated in MM, but for US market may be re-labled in inches.

10 mm Pin diameter "might" fit in an ACCO 1/4" G 40 High test chain link (inside dimension of the G 40 chain is .41") which has SWL of 2600# and breaking strength of 7750#: (Disclosure, I don't have any G 40 chain or my digital micrometer with me in the RV, so I cannot confirm the internal diameter of G 40 HT chain) Next time I am in West Marine, I'll have to confirm the dimensions. ACCO gives this dimension--some of the other chain manufacturers give a dimension of .38"--and if this is the case, the 10 mm (3/8") shackle will not fit. My past experience is that I can only go up one chain size with G40 chain. If coil proof chain--then you may be able to get a 3/8" shackle--but the chain is weaker.

10mm=.39" diameter (about 3/8") SWL=3350# and breaking strength of 9479# This does exceed the SWL of the chain.

8mm= .31" diameter. (about 5/16") SWL =2200, breaking strength of 5952. This is a little under the SWL of the G 40 chain. (What I would normally use in G 40 chain)

The Crosby "red pin" galvanized shackle, which Sunbeam (reluctantly) uses has a SWL of 1000 lbs in 1/4", 1500 lbs in 5/16" and 2000 lbs in 3/8" size. The reason to use Crosby is that they are forged in the USA. I will not use chain or shackles of any type made in China or India. (USA, UK, Germany and France, from reputable manufactures is OK--if proofed.
 
Just went out to the boathouse and measured. My Wichard shackle has the 8mm (5/16") pin. Looks like a 10mm pin might fit through the 1/4" G40 HT chain, but it would be very close - would that be a wear problem?

I'm satisfied with the 8mm one - it shows little or no deformation after 13 summers anchoring an 11,000lb boat. Just for grins I did buy a new one a year or two ago.
 
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