Anchor Rode Jumps off Gypsy
- Thread starter Edward Thieme
- Start date
Doryman":2a21t4fm said:
I've never had this problem, but then have rarely had my C-Dory in any violent enough sea conditions to simulate a bad ocean crossing.
The C-Dory rode locker is only 18-20 inches or so in the greatest dimension (as I remember) and is also an inverted pyramid in shape. Getting the pile of chain in this confined space to "invert" would require conditions I'd rather not experience in a 22 foot boat, C-Dory or otherwise! :smileo
P.S. : As long as we're at it, I'd like Bob Austin to comment on the 8-Plait nylon rode offered by Lewmar. If he hasn't used it, maybe one of his nautical friends has some experience with it? Thanks!
Joe. :teeth :thup
One thought I have for the people who are having winch line feeding problems is that the infomative page at the Lewmar site (linked by someone else a few messages back in this thread) talks about variability in some manufacturers' line sizes. If the 1/2" line is a little smaller than Lewmar's it can cause feeding problems.
I'm not sure where my 1/2" line came from, but it feeds very reliably, and the splice that I made by following pictorial instructions feeds reliably, too.
It's possible that comparing your rode diameter carefully with some other lines may lead you to a rode that feeds better.
I'd love to try some of the 8 plait line to maybe make room for even more rode in my locker, but my setup's working well now, so it's hard to justify spending a bunch of money on that.
Regarding the 'tossing', I think Bob meant that the top of the pile of chain will slide over to the side and drop below some of the chain that was piled under it, and then some of that remainder can slide over and end up above the chain that was previously on top. That might lead to a feeding problem later, but not necessarily. The chain feeds out fairly slowly (not with a free-fall system, I guess) and it's pretty good about sliding past itself on the way. I'll bet he didn't mean to portray the entire pile of chain jumping up in the air and then landing completely inverted, as some might interpret from the wording.
I'm not sure where my 1/2" line came from, but it feeds very reliably, and the splice that I made by following pictorial instructions feeds reliably, too.
It's possible that comparing your rode diameter carefully with some other lines may lead you to a rode that feeds better.
I'd love to try some of the 8 plait line to maybe make room for even more rode in my locker, but my setup's working well now, so it's hard to justify spending a bunch of money on that.
Regarding the 'tossing', I think Bob meant that the top of the pile of chain will slide over to the side and drop below some of the chain that was piled under it, and then some of that remainder can slide over and end up above the chain that was previously on top. That might lead to a feeding problem later, but not necessarily. The chain feeds out fairly slowly (not with a free-fall system, I guess) and it's pretty good about sliding past itself on the way. I'll bet he didn't mean to portray the entire pile of chain jumping up in the air and then landing completely inverted, as some might interpret from the wording.
Jeff-
To use one of Bob's favorite words (probably that of a physician carefully wording a tentative diagnosis,)I "suspect" that you're right about the "tossing" and "inverting", and I know there was some intentional hyperbole in the way I indirectly quoted his statement to reflect my own disbelief that it could easily happen! :lol:
I really don't think there's too much of a likelyhood that the chain would foul itself, but I suppose it's a possibility. The gypsy lifts it firmly and slowly on the powered down pay out, and the chain seems to slide past itself easily. But Bob probably has many, many times the cruising experience that I have, so I'll definitely honor his opinion on the matter.
I's like very much myself to get a hold of some of that 8-plait to see how it feels, but i'm limited to a single West Marine store here and all their stores handle is New England Ropes, whereas the 8-plait is a Lewmar product.
Joe. :teeth :thup
To use one of Bob's favorite words (probably that of a physician carefully wording a tentative diagnosis,)I "suspect" that you're right about the "tossing" and "inverting", and I know there was some intentional hyperbole in the way I indirectly quoted his statement to reflect my own disbelief that it could easily happen! :lol:
I really don't think there's too much of a likelyhood that the chain would foul itself, but I suppose it's a possibility. The gypsy lifts it firmly and slowly on the powered down pay out, and the chain seems to slide past itself easily. But Bob probably has many, many times the cruising experience that I have, so I'll definitely honor his opinion on the matter.
I's like very much myself to get a hold of some of that 8-plait to see how it feels, but i'm limited to a single West Marine store here and all their stores handle is New England Ropes, whereas the 8-plait is a Lewmar product.
Joe. :teeth :thup
Jlastofka describes what I have experience with the chain well. I have been in conditions in the C Dory where this could have happened--but generally shorter peroids of time. Chain does tend to pile up--rope tends to flake or spiral--and does not exibit these tangles. It may not be a problem with the lighter 1/4" HT chain, but it is definately a problem with both 5/16 and 3/8" HT chain. We have rebuilt chain lockers to avoid it.
I have used both 8 and 12 plait line in Anchor rodes. It is great on the hands and to work with--but the devil to splice. You would have to do a weave in the chain type of splice after re-sizing it to 4 strands. Although there are conventional splices with 8 and 12 strand plaits, I have ended up oversewing the splice to be sure I had enough strenght.
I have not used these in a combination rope chain gypsy--but they make good anchor rodes, but with less stress and elasticity than 3 strand.
Mention of the 8 plait being less likely to jam under heavy load--I avoid putting heavy load on the combination rope chain gypsies. If you have enough chain, that it will reach the bottom where you usually anchor, then there should not be much strain as the windlass takes up the slack.
I have used both 8 and 12 plait line in Anchor rodes. It is great on the hands and to work with--but the devil to splice. You would have to do a weave in the chain type of splice after re-sizing it to 4 strands. Although there are conventional splices with 8 and 12 strand plaits, I have ended up oversewing the splice to be sure I had enough strenght.
I have not used these in a combination rope chain gypsy--but they make good anchor rodes, but with less stress and elasticity than 3 strand.
Mention of the 8 plait being less likely to jam under heavy load--I avoid putting heavy load on the combination rope chain gypsies. If you have enough chain, that it will reach the bottom where you usually anchor, then there should not be much strain as the windlass takes up the slack.
I believe it was Joe that mentioned a drum method of Anchor Wench..winch....oh well you know what I mean.
My friend just added such a system to his 28 Proline after going through several different windlass installs that didn't get the job done. Being a diver, he wants to make sure the boat is still there when he returns to the surface.
He bought a product called E-Z Anchor Puller and swears even at the cost, he would have saved money if he had only gone this route in the first place. I think the rig would still be over kill on a 22 footer, but on that new Venture 29...on know the "one" they built. I am sure it would fit it great.
I am still doing fine with my $300.00 Breeze model.
My only problem with it was finding the right size and type of rode and I used the chain splice that Joe has in his photo album and goes down and comes up with no kinks, jumps or bumps along the way. Thanks Joe.
My friend just added such a system to his 28 Proline after going through several different windlass installs that didn't get the job done. Being a diver, he wants to make sure the boat is still there when he returns to the surface.
He bought a product called E-Z Anchor Puller and swears even at the cost, he would have saved money if he had only gone this route in the first place. I think the rig would still be over kill on a 22 footer, but on that new Venture 29...on know the "one" they built. I am sure it would fit it great.
I am still doing fine with my $300.00 Breeze model.
My only problem with it was finding the right size and type of rode and I used the chain splice that Joe has in his photo album and goes down and comes up with no kinks, jumps or bumps along the way. Thanks Joe.
I finally had a chance to analyze my windlass problems and discovered that I had two issues. I decided to replace the 3 strand Lewmar rode with 8 plait due to the shallow anchor locker and relatively stiff rode. As I studied the new rode going on, I noticed excessive runout in the gypsy which was contributing to the problem of the rope getting jammed. Upon further examination, I found that the screws that hold the stripper finger against the gypsy were both loose enough to require at least 1/2 turn to tighten them. This substantially reduced the play in the gypsy.
I tested the setup today and so far, it works perfectly. I will update any problems after I have used it for a while. I honestly believe that both fixes were required.
:lol: :lol:
I tested the setup today and so far, it works perfectly. I will update any problems after I have used it for a while. I honestly believe that both fixes were required.
:lol: :lol:
flrockytop
New member
RichardW said:
Hello Frockytop,
I talked to Lewmar a year ago and also concluded that they would be little to no help. If you will take a look at my project album here http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... php&page=2 you will see a schematic of my newly designed / installed rode counter. On that schematic, I have a pointer to one of the two screws that hold the stripper bracket. I changed the rode to 8 plait nylon as well as tightening these screws.
Pls let me know what you find.
Richard
:roll:
I talked to Lewmar a year ago and also concluded that they would be little to no help. If you will take a look at my project album here http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... php&page=2 you will see a schematic of my newly designed / installed rode counter. On that schematic, I have a pointer to one of the two screws that hold the stripper bracket. I changed the rode to 8 plait nylon as well as tightening these screws.
Pls let me know what you find.
Richard
:roll:
Edward Thieme
New member
Well I finally went to work on the rode jumping out of the gypsy problem. Standing on a ladder, the boat is on the trailer, I found that the rope isn't just lifting the spring loaded guide as I thought. What is happening is as the rope comes up from below and shifts side to side and if it is stiff and has a small bend it hits the edge of the gypsy not the center groove and goes over the edge of the gypsy and as the gypsy turns with the rope over the edge it lifts the spring loaded guide bar.
By holding a bar, I used a 1/2 in. socket drive extension, just blow the gypsy, fore and aft to act as a guide, I found the problem could be eliminated.
I made an adjustable guide to mount just below the gypsy to keep the rope in line with the center of the gypsy. I have pictures but don't know how to submit them.
Ed on "Rambler"
By holding a bar, I used a 1/2 in. socket drive extension, just blow the gypsy, fore and aft to act as a guide, I found the problem could be eliminated.
I made an adjustable guide to mount just below the gypsy to keep the rope in line with the center of the gypsy. I have pictures but don't know how to submit them.
Ed on "Rambler"
Ed,
After I changed to 8 plait and tightened the loose finger, I still saw the rope jump off occasionally only during retrieval. By walking the rope back and forth through the gypsy, I determined that this problem seemed to be caused by the shallow rope locker depth. The shallow locker causes the rope to enter the gypsy from such acute angles that it can get to the side of the finger from underneath if the rope has enough stiffness. My objective was to add guides to constrain the entry point of the rope to the gypsy while still allowing the rope to flake freely into the locker during retrieve. Another design constraint is that the guides cannot interfere with rope / chain splice joint.
This link: http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php
shows the rope actually jumping and the guides that I added a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to thoroughly test under all conditions and will not say that all is perfect yet. It does seem to work well as I launch and retrieve the rope by hand but more testing is needed.
When perfected, this fix may help several brats with this windlass.
:roll: :roll:
After I changed to 8 plait and tightened the loose finger, I still saw the rope jump off occasionally only during retrieval. By walking the rope back and forth through the gypsy, I determined that this problem seemed to be caused by the shallow rope locker depth. The shallow locker causes the rope to enter the gypsy from such acute angles that it can get to the side of the finger from underneath if the rope has enough stiffness. My objective was to add guides to constrain the entry point of the rope to the gypsy while still allowing the rope to flake freely into the locker during retrieve. Another design constraint is that the guides cannot interfere with rope / chain splice joint.
This link: http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php
shows the rope actually jumping and the guides that I added a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to thoroughly test under all conditions and will not say that all is perfect yet. It does seem to work well as I launch and retrieve the rope by hand but more testing is needed.
When perfected, this fix may help several brats with this windlass.
:roll: :roll:
UPDATE to the Lewmar Pro Fish 700 WINDLASS MODS:
After several weeks of using the windlass with the two lexan guides installed, I can report that, thus far, the rope has not jumped off of the gypsy on either the launch or the retrieve. This has made anchoring a lot more enjoyable. Here is the link to the modifications made to the windlass for those who may be experiencing this problem:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php
I also replaced the 3 plait Lewmar rope with an 8 plait version but I would try the mod with 3 plait first; the 8 plait may not be necessary with the guides installed.
:roll:
After several weeks of using the windlass with the two lexan guides installed, I can report that, thus far, the rope has not jumped off of the gypsy on either the launch or the retrieve. This has made anchoring a lot more enjoyable. Here is the link to the modifications made to the windlass for those who may be experiencing this problem:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php
I also replaced the 3 plait Lewmar rope with an 8 plait version but I would try the mod with 3 plait first; the 8 plait may not be necessary with the guides installed.
:roll: