Anchor and compass question

C

colobear

New member
Yesterday I went to the Seattle "marine garage sale" by Fisheries Supply
What a hoot, I got there at about 0645 and the place was crawling with people, some great deals (more later) and loads of "junque" much of which I couldn't even recognize.

Anyway, I am trying to outfit C-Cakes being rigged by Les at EQ and got (gloat here) an 11# genuine Bruce anchor, 10' of chain and 160' of 1/2" three strand line all of which appears to have never been in the water, for $30. My question is, here in the San Juans/Puget Sound area, is this enough for a main anchor/ rode?? I had been planning a 16.5# Bruce with a 4# Fortress as a second/spare. I expect I'll end up with another 100' or so of anchor line as everyone seems to have 200'+ But should I make the 11# Bruce the spare and get a bigger anchor for the main?

And, Les has suggested a magnetic compass is unnecessary for C-Cakes as I'll have a Raymarine C80 setup with radar and GPS. However, as an old retired Army guy/elk hunter, I feel nekkid without a magnetic compass and will probably put one in just to feel more secure. One of Les' arguments is that it is really hard to compensate a magnetic compass in a 22' with all the electronics around. Having said all that, What is the C-Brats wisdom about compasses, necessity, brand/model, and location?

Other good deals included 4 perfectly good fenders for a total of $4, PFDs,
line, etc. It was definitely worth the drive.

Barry \ Colobear
 
Barry,

The 'old school' approach (that's me) is to put the magnetic compass directly in front of the helmsman. But since the advent of modern chartplotters that has changed. So now, put the primary steering devise in front of the helm.

I would still install a magnetic compass as a backup, perhaps on the dash or overhead shelf. If the electronics quit, that magnetic compass can get you back. If the compass is a backup it should be adjusted with the primary steering devise (chartplotter) off, as it would be if there is a failure.
 
Barry,

I forgot there was another question!!

I carry a 17.5 lb Bruce with 30 ft of 1/4 chain and 300 ft of 7/16 nylon on the bow, and a 13 lb Danforth also with 30 ft of chain and 300 ft of 7/16 nylon rode for the stern.

This gear has been adequate from the Puget sound to Alaska.

Your gear may be all right for day anchoring or for under 30 ft of water in moderate winds.

When I set my anchor I back down (motor in reverse at idle) until the rode is tight to be sure that the hook is set.

Even my 17.5 Bruce drug in Mission Bay in soft mud with only light to moderate winds. After reanchoring with the Danforth, all was OK. The Bruce also drug in the soft mud of Hunter Bay, Lopez Is. However, in sand/rocks, the Bruce sets fast and has always held.
 
I agree with the naked-without-a-compass issue to a certain extent. But that's more traditionalist talk than any particular need.

We have a Raymarine system with GPS (backed up with a small handheld GPS if necessary), plus there is the fluxgate (compass) on the autopilot, and the boat binoculars have a built-in bearing compass. Oh yea, then "ditch bag" has my old Silva Boy Scout compass. Don't need any more compasses!

With the constricted space at the C-Dory helm, a built-in compass just seemed like one more item to take up precious dash space.

As for the anchor - we went overboard in the anchor department. Since the windlass does the retrieval work I opted for an oversized (22#) Delta anchor with 200' of rode and about 22' of chain. Most of our anchoring is for overnighting, hopefully in reasonably protected areas. If the anchor depth requires more than 200' of line - I'll find another location. As for the oversized anchor itself, it's just a concession to my sleep. I seem to sleep better with that humongous thing down there.

Casey
C-Dory Naknek
 
I run a 22 lb Delta + 30 ft of chain (boat-length rule of thumb + a little) and 300 ft of 1/2" nylon rode (CD-25). I anchor bow first (always) then back down at 5+ to 1 scope to set, then if a stern anchor needed, continue to back down letting out bow line until I'm where I want the stern anchor. Pull forward with the bow line, set the stern anchor.

I've anchored in 30-50 ft of water, you want approx 200+ feet out, but need that extra 100 ft to back down to the stern anchor location (usually in shallower water). I like this method for a couple of reasons:
1) Keeps the boat under control at all times once the bow anchor is set.
2) Minimizes chance of stern anchor line getting fouled in the props while maneuvering to position. Doesn't require a great amount of skillful operation by your helper. Also, helpers tend to be mesmerized by the beauty of the new anchorage location and may not pay 'perfect' attention to the job at hand...

My method, works for me.

Steve
 
Thanks to all for the responses about compasses and anchor size.

Not For Hire was particularly helpful by pointing out the old thread on compasses. Think I'll stick with my old-fashioned need for a compass and have one on the boat. I gave my son my old Garmin 12XL GPS as he is in Colorado and is the elk hunter. Drat!! So now I'll have to find a new handheld GPS :D for my redundant redundancy device.

As far as the anchor goes, my thoughts seem to be confirmed, the 11# Bruce is a little light for my (not yet rigged and in my sweaty hands) 22' cruiser but it should be adequate for a second anchor. What is the accumulated wisdom about splicing more line to my newly found 160' of 3 strand instead of buying 250' of a single line?

Thanks again everybody. C-Cakes should be ready for Lopez Island and we'll see some of you there.

Colobear
 
colobear-

I'm sure there are those who would NEVER advise splicing any anchor rode rope, or three strand in particular, but all three strand is spliced somewhere, usually to a shackle or the chain near the anchor, although this is a doubled back, not in line splice.

However, a splice can be done with care, IMHO, if you don't have a windlass upon which the double sized overlapped section might foul on the gypsy, making splicing unadvisable.

Three strand is easy to splice, just practice the process a time or two before doing the "for real" section upon which you will be trying to sleep overnight.

I'd make two extra slight modifications to the splice as well:

Besides weaving or , more properly termed, braiding the three strands together after both burning the 3 strand ends to melt their fibers together then whipping those individual strand ends , I would

1. Make the overlap a little longer than the usual amount by + 30-50%, and

2. Sew the three strands together with marlinespike thread throughout the splice, but not so overly much as to unduly stiffen the splice section so much it becomes unwieldy.

Both these steps are probably unnecessary. but satisfy my need for security just like the compass redundancy thing!

If you don't feel comfortable with doing this yourself, take it to a marine chandlery or rigging shop and have them do it for you. (Or buy all new rope!)

Good Luck!

Joe.
 
colobear-

I'd defer to the locals up there in Puget Sound, but would suggest that the 11# bruce is not too light for a 22, if properly rigged.

This means having enough chain to be sure the pull on the anchor is always horizontal: it's the vertical lifting from too short a chain that weakens most ground tackle systems.

No reason to carry a 22# anchor when one half at weight will do if you have enough chain to make it hook up.

Just how much chain it would take depends on your local conditions, so check around, but 20-25 feet of 1/4" GS-40 High Test should usually do the trick.

Joe.
 
Interesting thoughts on both the anchor and compass. I have 200' of chain and 140' of line for my rode - overkill, probably, but it all fits in the locker, and the trim seems just fine.

I have the Raymarine C-80 and decided not to go with a mounted traditional compass for the same reasons others have outlined. It just gets to be too much clutter for me at the helm. I do always have a back-up handheld GPS (Garmin GPSMap 76), as well as a couple of small compasses. WIth regard to the heading issue mentioned in the earlier thread...
I thought they all worked the same. I believe they require the boat make some headway for a certain distance before they can compute which direction you are going?
Click to expand...

Unless the boat is moving (RELATIVE TO THE SATELLITES), there is no way to compute direction. Hence, if one is at anchor, or otherwise disabled, the compass reading of the GPS is useless.
Click to expand...

If you have a fluxgate hooked up to the plotter, your heading will always be shown, even if you're stationary.
 
Without knowing much about your area...

I tend to agree with Les, with the following exceptions...
I never go anywhere without my "boy scout" compass and a watch.
Even a rather inexpensive dash mounted compass mounted on the underside of the shelf could be useful.

Craig
 
Joe, and everyone,

My experience with genuine Bruce anchors(not China copies) started with my 30 ft trimaran sailboat in the early 80's.

In my opinion, the Bruce size selection chart would have you buy an anchor which is too small.

I used a 33lb Bruce(one size larger that Bruce's recommendation) on my tri and it never drug. I like to sleep soundly at night and that hook set first time, every time, from So Cal to Alaska!! (no I don't own any stock in Bruce Anchors)!

If anyone is buying a Bruce, consider going up one size over the recommendation. Upgrading from say, 11 lbs to 17.5 lbs only adds 6.5 lbs to the bow of the boat, but adds a lot of area to the flukes of the anchor.

If weight was a real concern, I would rather have 6.5 lbs more anchor and move 6.5 lbs of something else to the stern.

In my experience, anchors and rode(like dingys) are too big when on the boat and too small when out in the water!!

When the wind or waves pick up in the middle of the night, is not the time to wish your anchor was larger!!
 
May I suggest you get the new added rod of line and cut the 160' of line into 4 equal pieces [abt 40' each] for deck lines. Here you can also practice whipping one end and placing an 'eye' splice in the other. Now you can have your cake and eat it too.
 
Larry-

I haven't used Bruce anchors myself much, but was just going by the sizes you see all over on CD-22's , which are mostly of that size, and the lack of complaints of problems from such owners.

I have the same penchant to overdo the anchor and the rest of the ground tackle like you, but mostly because anchoring here in a steep sided resevoir I can never get any more than a 3:1 scope in a cove and often much less.

It is also not possible here to bury the anchor deeply in mud or sand, but instead the anchor must mechanically "hook" onto something hard on the bottom.

To compensate, I use a very large Fortress FX-16 (intended for 33-38 ft boats, although only 10 lbs), and 100 ft of 1/4" chain (74 lbs) followed by 150 feet of 1/2" rope. The big chain does all the work of making the anchor hook up by keeping the pull horizontal.

IM001284.jpg


Another friend of mine uses the same rode combination in the California Delta with a 9 lb Delta Fastset and has no trouble in the sand and mud.

It seems that eventually each skipper must evaluate his or her own results from experiences and experiments until they're happy with the outcome and feel comfortable.

Joe.
 
Joe,

A lot of my boating is voyaging/cruising/exploring into new(to me) waters where the anchorages are new and unknown.

I have perhaps larger than normal anchors and rode to ensure secure nights on the hook.

If people typically anchor in the same locations in protected waters, then smaller/lighter gear would work.

Anchoring is an art, not a science, and requires practice.

Also, if you don't feel secure after the hook is down, either reanchor or move to a different anchorage.
 
Back
Top