Air Conditioning

W

Will-C

New member
Hello,
While still wearing the lurker (jeez) wantabe moniker I have a question about air conditioning on a C-Dory 22 or a 25. I like the low profile of the standard roofs and since I only stand 5"10" I don't see the need to have the higher roof. I wonder about the air conditioning units that require a thru hull to use seawater in part to cool. I really don't like the look of the roof top units and lugging aound a window unit in the berth and installing it in a side window in the evening will not be part of our m.o. I see the sea water type seems to have trouble under way pulling the water out of the suction line connected to the thru hull according to some threads concerning the newer tugs. I wondered if the was a big cost difference and aside from installing a thru hull fitting if there were other considerations I am missing. I would imagine weight wise they would be the about the same. Can the roof top units heat also? Power wise I'm figuring on having an E-2000 Honda generator to power it up while I float around away from shore power. If the roof top is a better solution I guess I could get over the cosmetic thing. Thanks again to people who maintain the site for such a great site and all the great people who provide a wealth of information.
D.D.
 
We have a 7500 btu rooftop unit. It works great. Our 2000i will run it and battery charger but not much more. We run sometimes with 2000i on and ac running. Ours has a heat strip that will warm the boat but if it is going to be really cold we have a portable heater that the 2000i will run.It does leak sometime in the cabin but we have very high humidity down here.
 
I was at a boat show a while back and a dealer had two 5 KW units running and was using a 20 gallon water tank to feed them water. They were both blowing really cool air and running off the same 20 gallon tank. They were inside a large airconditioned room so it wasn't a real world test. I wonder if rather than a thru hull you could simply use the on board water for cooling? According to the dealer he ran these two units off the 20 gallon tank for 8 hours without problems. If this did work you might even figure a way to heat water with them diverting the water to say a smaller tank and circulating it.
 
The portable room air conditioning units are very efficient, lightweight, and easy to install/remove/move around for weight distribution. I started with a single air tubed model that was 11,000 btu for my TomCat, but it clogged with water condensation and the evaporative blower wheel motor drive broke.

I replaced that one with a 9,000 Btu De Longhi portable A/C unit which had TWO outside air tubes: one for intake and the other for outflow of hot, moist air. The De Longhi does NOT need a condensation drain since it efficiently dumps the moisture back to the outside air.

Even if you need a condensation drain, I just ran a 1/2 " hose down to the shower drain to drain off the overflow.

These portable units use slow start, rotary compressors and run on from 7 to 9 amps! Very low drain. Also, having the weight lower is more stable than a roof air. Also, no holes to drill. I just used rubber tie down staps to hold them still.

They do take up some cabin space. I put mine in front of the forward dinette seat, so you can still sit on the corner facing forward, or sit normally facing the back. If you do want to "uninstall" these units, it's simple to sit it on the gunn'l or dock, then get out of the boat and wheel it down the dock, or just tie it down on the dock for future use with a bag over or other storage locker.

I have a photo of the first Haier unit whose condensate fan broke eventually. The De Longhi unit is much more efficient, even though only 9,000 Btu, due to the dual air hose setup. I just stick the hoses out a window with towels or blankets to fill the gaps. I made a custom plastic window fitting for the first Haier unit, but it does not fit the De Longhi double hoses. Seems like you'd want to take the air hoses out of the window anyway when not in use.

Even though I have a Honda i2000 inside an aft box, I rarely run the A/C while underway. It seems cool enough with the wind off the water most times. So mainly anchoring or dockside A/C use for me.

I have used the A/C while stopping overnite trailering to far waters. That is the best thing about the non-marine units - they don't need seawater cooling. Also, the seawater intakes frequently get clogged with debris in use and it's a pain to have to get in the water to clean the grate, or to have to clean out the seawater strainers. None of those problems with the air cooled units.

While many small A/C units can heat also, they do that via electrical heat strips which are not very efficient. A small portable, maybe Quartz, electric heater can better direct the heat where you want. The heat coming from an overhead heat strip never hits the floor. I had that type on some of my boats in the past. Also, a small fan or two comes in handy to redirect heat or air.


Good luck,

John
 
You have many of the answers already. The thru hulls have multiple problems: they require a raw water pump and strainer. Fish, jelly fish, plastic and weeds become stuck in the intake or strainer, and can cause failure of the pump or at least shut down of the compressor.

You are correct that the 20 gallon tank (160 lbs if you had the room), is not a real world test. There are 5,000 BTU built in AC units which will run on the EU 1000 generator. The question is how much of the year in PA will you need an AC unit?

The feature of either a window or roof top unit as Joe pointed out is that the boat can be used as a camper on the hard, as well as when in a lift, sling, or aground.

Lifting the small window unit in and out is not a problem for me--and I have severe back problems. We keep the window AC unit under the V berth in the 25 (not an option in the 22). It is the cheapest and easiest. At the Delta gathering my 25 was the only boat with AC--and it was 80 inside--where the other boats were about 100 degrees.

On the other hand, even in Florida, we do not run the AC unit when under way. There is enough breeze to cool the boat.

For our Tom Cat (Florida boat) The RV AC unit makes the most sense. It does require the EU 2000 (8300 BtU unit--cools at least 20 degrees below ambient temp).

Storage space always remains a problem for us, and that mitigated against the units which Dr John describes--plus the ducting etc...But it is another in-expensive way to handle the problem. Try the $89 Artic King from Wal mart in the window for starters---see how you like it. I would not buy a boat with built in AC (specifically a C Dory--I have owned several larger boats with up to 48,000 BTU with built in units)
 
Hell0,
Thanks for all your thoughts. We have a boating season which for me runs from April to December. This weekend in June mid nineties and very humid is predicted. July and August are usually worse. I like be on the water at day break which requires me to leave about 3am. Nice time to drive as long as the deer behave. By noon I'm ready for a nap and the air conditioning affords convert by cool and quiet as being able to close up keeps the noise down also. This also allows for me to over night out on the bay. Previously with a center console it's time to head home as the campground thing or owning Jersey shore real estate are not going to happen in my lifetime. The drive home can get a little dicey as a result of drowsy driver syndrome. That is why I parted ways with the center console. It looks like roof top unit would be the best scenario for me with a rack to protect it so I can still get kayaks on top.
Thanks,
D.D.
 
Dave:

I am going to offer a different point of view.

After I got the Tomcat, I went through the same exercise that you are going through, trying to decide on the best A/C system. While I was considering my options, I bought a Lasko Pro Performance Blower fan to "make do". The fan costs less than $100.

http://web.iwebcenters.com/eggshop/item212091.ctlg

Guess what- I never did get the A/C. This fan moves a ton of air. We put it in the door or on the front center window blowing into the cabin, and it is quite enough. It draws only 1.4 amps, so I can run it off an inverter (we have 2 house batteries) or off the Honda generator. I do have a 2 KW Honda that I had bought with the view of powering an A/C unit. If I could do it over, I would go with a 1 KW Honda and the fan. The smaller Honda is significantly lighter.

I am not saying that this is the solution for you, but I live on the Texas gulf coast and it has served us well. As Dr. Bob pointed out, you only need the cooling when the boat is not under way.

For a hundred bucks, it might be worth a try...
 
Alok":1q8g9o55 said:
We put it in the door or on the front center window blowing into the cabin, and it is quite enough.
Click to expand...

How well does the air circulate down under that window to the berth? I believe some other members have rigged something that blows down through the hatch.

Since this coming winter will be our first as "Winter Texans" I am getting prepared -- but everything I have learned tells me I will not need A/C during the Jan-Feb-Mar that we plan to be there.

Warren
 
We sailed for years in the tropics (much hotter than in PA) without AC and mostly "Wind scoops"--as Alok, we also have a fan--but the Vantastic "Endless breeze"--runs off 12 volts and is fine for naps in the bunk--again--even with AC, we rarely use it during the day. The Walmart "O2" fans also are cheap and work well. You can put a wind scoop over the foreward hatch (we have one with a self supporting frame), or put a fan over the foreward hatch--use two pieces of PVC pipe to support it.

I would try some variations of the above before committing to AC in your area--then after a couple of trips you can decide. Even with the AC you will want the 12 volt fan to circulate the cool air into the foreward bunk--it just makes it cooler.
 
Doryman":16qprkag said:
Alok":16qprkag said:
We put it in the door or on the front center window blowing into the cabin, and it is quite enough.
Click to expand...

How well does the air circulate down under that window to the berth? I believe some other members have rigged something that blows down through the hatch.

Since this coming winter will be our first as "Winter Texans" I am getting prepared -- but everything I have learned tells me I will not need A/C during the Jan-Feb-Mar that we plan to be there.

Warren
Click to expand...

Warren:

You can put the fan anywhere in the cabin. It has a flat base and is very stable. To ventilate the berth, I would just put it on the cabin floor, or put it on the table and aim it down. It may be too much fan to use at night- Dr. Bob's suggestions may work better.

If you are going to be in Texas in Jan-Feb-March, you should not need A/C. If global warming catches up with us and proves me wrong, I will gladly lend you the fan!

PS: Where do you plan to be in Texas? I am in Clear Lake, half-way between Houston and Galveston.
 
Alok":egv2mq70 said:
PS: Where do you plan to be in Texas? I am in Clear Lake, half-way between Houston and Galveston.
Click to expand...

Right now we are thinking of making Rockport our home base and cruising in the area from Padre Island to Galveston. However, I was looking at the map and see that it is "only" 750+/- miles from Rockport to Pensacola so am thinking of expanding our horizons (the Admiral may override this idea, though.) Would love to visit places like New Iberia, etc. May be more practical to do so by land.

Since you have local knowledge, is boating in the big cities like Houston and New Orleans safe? I'm sure there is a lot of barge, etc. traffic to be aware of but I am more concerned with security of property and persons.

Thanks.
Warren
 
A major factor in favor of Air Conditioning is that, whether at a truck stop or campground on the trailer, or at a dock or crowded anchorage, there always seems to be some clown drinking heavily and yelling loudly and blaring the stereo at 90 decibles, etc.. I do know not to upset a quiet anchorage with genset use, but otherwise, the only way you'll get a good nite's sleep is with the sound coverage and "quietude" from A/C use.

Right now I am tied up at the dock with my portable A/C unit quietly working away, with the temperature and the humidity both in the 90's. The teenagers 3 slips down are blaring the stereo, but I can barely even tell there is any outside noise!

I guess you already know they have the small A/C unit that goes directly into the forward hatch.

Unless you have an A/C unit blowing directly into the forward berth, you will need a small to moderate fan to do so.

One incredibly nice thing about occasional A/C use is that it dries everything inside the boat. You can even set these portable units in "dehumidifier" mode when you're gone. With routine thorough drying of the cabin and contents, mold and odors are no longer problems. And you can hang up your laundry and towels to dry inside.

John
 
We either set the fan on the "floor" between the navigator's seat and the bunk or we hand it from the "crash bar"--a 30" long 3/4" SS bar infront of the navigator's seat--to blow air conditioned air into the bunk area. Also I do recomment putting insullation around the hull on the sides. We use the Walmart back packing pads 24" x 72" on each side...This helps a lot with both heat and cold, and condensation. We also use the car windshield bubble reflective material between the window covers and windows--again this works well in both heat and cold. Also we sometimes use "Shade cloth" (75%) over the foredeck or at least the deck and front of the cabin house from the hand rails on the roof to the bow rails (when anchored)--shade really helps to lower the inside temp, and make AC or any circulated air much more tolerable.
 
Doryman":2jb4v1ik said:
Alok":2jb4v1ik said:
PS: Where do you plan to be in Texas? I am in Clear Lake, half-way between Houston and Galveston.
Click to expand...

Since you have local knowledge, is boating in the big cities like Houston and New Orleans safe? I'm sure there is a lot of barge, etc. traffic to be aware of but I am more concerned with security of property and persons.

Thanks.
Warren
Click to expand...

Warren:

I thought of sending you a pm so as not to hijack the thread- but on second thoughts I decided a public response was worth it since others may have an interest in this area. Let me also state that my answer pertains only to the Houston-Galveston area; I have no knowledge of New Orleans.

First of all, safety. I have never had any problems, and have never felt threatened. There have been no reports of thefts in any marina that I know of. One cannot predict random acts of thievery, but I don't think that this area is any different from anywhere else.

Most of the boating here is done in Galveston Bay, with Galveston at the South-East end and Clear Lake up towards the North-west. Lots of marinas and facilities. If you contact me a couple of months before you come, I will be glad to find you a transient slip for your passage through this area.

The Houston Ship channel goes through Galveston Bay. The upper part of the channel that actually goes into Houston is closed to public shipping, and is ugly and industrial anyhow- so you are not going to be boating in Houston.

Yes, the ICW carries significant barge traffic. With a cross-wind, the tow and barge can be crabbing at a 15-20 degree angle (sometime seems like 45!), taking up almost the whole width of the channel. With a faster boat, you have to overtake sooner or later. This calls for good VHF technique and a familiarity with "one whistle" and "two whistle" terminology. The captains are very willing to talk to you- silent "pleasure boats" make them very nervous. By the way, regardless of your vessel's name, you are likely to be called a "pleasure boat".

Kirby Marine, one of the largest towboat operations, actually does a full-day seminar every year for pleasure boaters where they bring towboat captains to talk to us about the "view from the bridge". Very enlightening! Bridge tenders have their own personal codes- some will talk on 10, some on 16.

Campbell's Guide to Cruising Texas is, in my opinion, a must have. It tells you what to do, mile by mile, throughout the Texas ICW and in Galveston Bay.

Look forward to seeing you.
 
We have cruised from Brownsville to FL. and have little to add to Alok's excellent response about Gulf coastal cruising. We would second the idea that the towboats are common but one of the highlights of cruising that coast -- the skippers loved to 'chat' with El and we found them wonderfully skilled boatmen, courteous and interesting folk.

We never feared for boat nor personal safety along the coast, and had no problems. Marvelous cruising grounds with abundant wildlife, interesting views, good water, and fine people.
 
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