Air Conditioning
- Thread starter williamsburg
- Start date
Looking for the exact start up specs now....but, from Camper World site (the selling side of the house...) here is/are a review and description of the high efficiency... Any yall know Lester??? Might be a salesman from Camper World for all I know... 
Brisk Air HE 13,500 BTU - May 23, 2006
Reviewer: Lester Wroblewski from Peoria, AZ
Review: Well it was 105 in Phoenix, and the BA13500 worked great. The lower amp draw left plenty of power for other appliances. We used it on the low fan speed and had the thermostat set 3/4 of the way to the coldest setting.
High Efficiency Brisk Air keeps you cooler with the lowest amp draw in the industry. Uses 23% less power yet provides 30% more cool air than standard air conditioners – the lowest amp draw in the industry. Efficient compressor lets you cool more effectively, avoid brownouts and have amps to spare for other appliances.Three-speed fan. USA. :smiled :thup
Brisk Air HE 13,500 BTU - May 23, 2006
Reviewer: Lester Wroblewski from Peoria, AZ
Review: Well it was 105 in Phoenix, and the BA13500 worked great. The lower amp draw left plenty of power for other appliances. We used it on the low fan speed and had the thermostat set 3/4 of the way to the coldest setting.
High Efficiency Brisk Air keeps you cooler with the lowest amp draw in the industry. Uses 23% less power yet provides 30% more cool air than standard air conditioners – the lowest amp draw in the industry. Efficient compressor lets you cool more effectively, avoid brownouts and have amps to spare for other appliances.Three-speed fan. USA. :smiled :thup
patrick and linda
New member
i'm enjoying the conversation regarding air conditioning units, especially when our local temperature is approaching 95. i've emailed c-dory direct and asked if the topside of the 22' cabin will support the 94 lbs of a coleman poar cub 9201. i've found this unit advertised by www.ducktec.com for $598.55 (8.2 running amps) i think shipping was included in the 598. (can't say if that's a good price or not) this unit requires a 14" x 14" cut out. not sure about how low the control panel will protrude into the cabin area. local rv dealer believes 3 to 4"s. additional concern is the flat bottom of the unit matching up with the cabins top curvature. all advice greatly appreciated.
patrick and linda
New member
alok,
just checked out the camping world brisk air unit. dimensions are less and btu's are greater than the coleman's polar cub. not sure about the weight though. price is comparable. i post seldom but read often.
just checked out the camping world brisk air unit. dimensions are less and btu's are greater than the coleman's polar cub. not sure about the weight though. price is comparable. i post seldom but read often.
Joe Crawford, who has Tomcat hull #1, has installed the Coleman Sea Mach 13,500 unit on the roof. This weighs 99 lbs. I have seen the installation, and the roof seems to be taking it OK. How much roof and cabin flex will happen as the boat runs in rough seas, and whether this will have an effect on the window and door frames only time will tell. I suspect it will be just fine.
http://www.rvcomfort.com/pdf_documents/ ... a_copy.pdf
Joe is using a Honda 3000 generator. With this, he still has problems at restart if the A/C is set to cycle on and off on a thermostat- I think it is because the Honda goes into the econothrottle mode (Joe- jump in any time!). He told me that he usually leaves the A/C on continuously and grabs a blanket at night. He keeps the heavy Honda on the cockpit seat.
This is why the Duotherm unit, with its slightly lower current requirement, is attractive. All new A/Cs have the soft-start built in. It is my understanding (which may be incorrect) that the start load is about 1 1/2 times the running load. The Honda 2000 might just barely run the Duotherm which, if the company is to be believed, has a running load of 10 amps. It will be close at best.
I am interested to see what Byrdman finds out about the starting load on the Duotherm, and what the factory says about the weight bearing capacity of the roof.
http://www.rvcomfort.com/pdf_documents/ ... a_copy.pdf
Joe is using a Honda 3000 generator. With this, he still has problems at restart if the A/C is set to cycle on and off on a thermostat- I think it is because the Honda goes into the econothrottle mode (Joe- jump in any time!). He told me that he usually leaves the A/C on continuously and grabs a blanket at night. He keeps the heavy Honda on the cockpit seat.
This is why the Duotherm unit, with its slightly lower current requirement, is attractive. All new A/Cs have the soft-start built in. It is my understanding (which may be incorrect) that the start load is about 1 1/2 times the running load. The Honda 2000 might just barely run the Duotherm which, if the company is to be believed, has a running load of 10 amps. It will be close at best.
I am interested to see what Byrdman finds out about the starting load on the Duotherm, and what the factory says about the weight bearing capacity of the roof.
Have not found the starting surge for the unit....but... did see in another rv.net forum that there is a $25 "starter kit" which really helps.....and on newer units....one indicated he called and got one free from the factory...
and the worms spiral out of control..... :xseek
and the worms spiral out of control..... :xseek
Allllllllrighty Bat Man..... Here is a trail... Duo-Therm is made by Dometic. Dometic has 2 types of RV, AC units....and a bunch of other real neat stuff I will have to go check out later....
But... The 1st type is the Du-Therm Penguin....which is a LOW PROFILE unit...only sticking up 9" from the mounting surface..
The 2nd type is the Duo-Therm Brisk Air....
Now...here is site with pdf file on Penguin. And... going back to the site.... I bet they have one on the Brisk Air too...
Let's go read.
http://www.dometicusa.com/pdf/os2136PenquinLO.pdf
But... The 1st type is the Du-Therm Penguin....which is a LOW PROFILE unit...only sticking up 9" from the mounting surface..
The 2nd type is the Duo-Therm Brisk Air....
Now...here is site with pdf file on Penguin. And... going back to the site.... I bet they have one on the Brisk Air too...
Let's go read.
http://www.dometicusa.com/pdf/os2136PenquinLO.pdf
The Fran Sea
New member
After spending 3 weeks on the Chesapeake following the "Gathering" and another 2 weeks in Up State NY on the Erie, I was glad to get back to Florida where it's been cooler then "there". My thoughts also have turned to air conditioning and having been a motorhomer for many years I thinks an RV Roof top would be about the best decision, probably just have to work out some venting solution to circulate the cool air in the vee bunk area. As other's have observed, you could replace one 3 or 4 times for the cost of a marine unit and from experience, a 13.5 btu unit can cool a 40' motorhome which admittedly has "some" insulation. Also, a roof top makes more sense for a C-Dory then a "marine" unit because so many of us use it as a trailer on land, where a "marine" unit wouldn't work.
Now as far as a generator goes, sounds good, but EXTREME care and thought need to go into placement. Every year we read about boaters found dead in their anchored boats where "marine" generators allowed fumes into the cockpit and eventually into the sleeping area. Keep in mine, that carbon monoxide fumes tend to build up over time and are to some degree cumulative, not to mention odorless.
Now as far as a generator goes, sounds good, but EXTREME care and thought need to go into placement. Every year we read about boaters found dead in their anchored boats where "marine" generators allowed fumes into the cockpit and eventually into the sleeping area. Keep in mine, that carbon monoxide fumes tend to build up over time and are to some degree cumulative, not to mention odorless.
Well, Byrdman:
You have probably gotten to the same place already
http://www.dometicusa.com/pdf/os2132Bri ... ftopLO.pdf
The minimum generator size listed on their data sheet is 2.5 KW, but the 13,500 unit is showing a running load of 14.6 amps (12.5 for the compressor and 2.1 for the fan). So either there is a newer unit out on the market with a load of 10 amps, or we need to keep on searching. It may also be worthwhile to find a local dealer and go talk...
I have also left a voice mail with Dometic to call me- lets see what happens.
You have probably gotten to the same place already
http://www.dometicusa.com/pdf/os2132Bri ... ftopLO.pdf
The minimum generator size listed on their data sheet is 2.5 KW, but the 13,500 unit is showing a running load of 14.6 amps (12.5 for the compressor and 2.1 for the fan). So either there is a newer unit out on the market with a load of 10 amps, or we need to keep on searching. It may also be worthwhile to find a local dealer and go talk...
I have also left a voice mail with Dometic to call me- lets see what happens.
Hello All
The Honda 3000 is really only rated 2800 continuous watts. It will run my seamach just fine in ecno throttle mode. What it will not do is restart the unit if you run the thermostat up and the compressor cycles. Out of ecno mode it will stop and start fine but the noise level go's up a lot. The unit also will run about 12 to 13 hours on full fuel. After a lot of thought on the whole generator issue it became apparent that the 3000 Honda was the way to go. A 2000 watt honda will start the coleman 13500 Btu unit at sea level but not in ecno mode and making a lot of noise. Running the boat
the Honda is so quit you can not here it Honda claims 49 to 58 Db. My winter project might be to buy a 4Kw Honda Rv genset which is already water cooled and add a wet manifold and a heat exchanger and mount it in 1 of the fish box holes not bad $3000.00 for a true homemade marine genset. Sleeping on the boat the refrigerator makes more noise in the cabin then the Honda. On another note installed a Floscan and have seen
some real good numbers. The boat was light about 20 to 25 gallons of fuel
and only 3 people. We did 70 Gps miles and only burned 14 gallons, the trip was from Baytown ramp to Crystal beach to Galveston back to Ramp in Baytown. The milage kind of blew me away the boat boat only gets about 2 when real heavy and almost 5 when light never seen this before.
This weekend taking the diving in the Gulf not far only out in Gulf about 40 miles, weekend after another long trip with bad fuel burn to the Flower Gardens and Boom Vang Tuna Fishing.
Bye All
Joe
The Honda 3000 is really only rated 2800 continuous watts. It will run my seamach just fine in ecno throttle mode. What it will not do is restart the unit if you run the thermostat up and the compressor cycles. Out of ecno mode it will stop and start fine but the noise level go's up a lot. The unit also will run about 12 to 13 hours on full fuel. After a lot of thought on the whole generator issue it became apparent that the 3000 Honda was the way to go. A 2000 watt honda will start the coleman 13500 Btu unit at sea level but not in ecno mode and making a lot of noise. Running the boat
the Honda is so quit you can not here it Honda claims 49 to 58 Db. My winter project might be to buy a 4Kw Honda Rv genset which is already water cooled and add a wet manifold and a heat exchanger and mount it in 1 of the fish box holes not bad $3000.00 for a true homemade marine genset. Sleeping on the boat the refrigerator makes more noise in the cabin then the Honda. On another note installed a Floscan and have seen
some real good numbers. The boat was light about 20 to 25 gallons of fuel
and only 3 people. We did 70 Gps miles and only burned 14 gallons, the trip was from Baytown ramp to Crystal beach to Galveston back to Ramp in Baytown. The milage kind of blew me away the boat boat only gets about 2 when real heavy and almost 5 when light never seen this before.
This weekend taking the diving in the Gulf not far only out in Gulf about 40 miles, weekend after another long trip with bad fuel burn to the Flower Gardens and Boom Vang Tuna Fishing.
Bye All
Joe
I'm also an RV'er and two comments re: A/C come to mind instantly.
1) If you have a C-22, you better have the "Tall Top" option or wear a kevlar ballcap at all times. Especially if you're hirsute disadvantaged.
2) If you've ever been in a 23 foot or smaller RV/camper with a 13,500 btu A/C unit, you know full well that you will not, repeat NOT going to hear the generator if it's outside of the RV. Having the A/C directly overhead or sleeping up forward with the generator anywhere aft of the cabin door, I seriously doubt that generator noise is going to be a bother.
A gratuitous third comment: My 5 year old DuoTherm 13.5 started and ran fine on my Honda 2k at or near sea level. I would carefully start it in low, then switch to high. On high, the problem was usually starting current which was solved with the soft start kit. Second problem was forgetting to unplug the battery charger before starting the A/C unit. It couldn't handle both.
Throwaway 4th comment:
I believe the Glacier Bay 2690 comes with an air conditioning package that includes the Honda 2kw generator. The GB 2690 was (and still is) on my "win the lottery lust list."
Don
1) If you have a C-22, you better have the "Tall Top" option or wear a kevlar ballcap at all times. Especially if you're hirsute disadvantaged.
2) If you've ever been in a 23 foot or smaller RV/camper with a 13,500 btu A/C unit, you know full well that you will not, repeat NOT going to hear the generator if it's outside of the RV. Having the A/C directly overhead or sleeping up forward with the generator anywhere aft of the cabin door, I seriously doubt that generator noise is going to be a bother.
A gratuitous third comment: My 5 year old DuoTherm 13.5 started and ran fine on my Honda 2k at or near sea level. I would carefully start it in low, then switch to high. On high, the problem was usually starting current which was solved with the soft start kit. Second problem was forgetting to unplug the battery charger before starting the A/C unit. It couldn't handle both.
Throwaway 4th comment:
I believe the Glacier Bay 2690 comes with an air conditioning package that includes the Honda 2kw generator. The GB 2690 was (and still is) on my "win the lottery lust list."
Don
williamsburg
New member
Sorry, I never started a C-Brat Album. However, the photos are available on my web site
http://members.cox.net/rlampert3/index.html
Hope they are helpful.
http://members.cox.net/rlampert3/index.html
Hope they are helpful.
patrick and linda
New member
scott m. form c-dory marine, responded to my email regarding the weight capacity of the 22' cd cruiser's cabin roof. while he did not address my question with an actual number he did state that a roof mounted a/c unit should not pose a problem. regarding the roof mounted a/c unit's ceiling assembly, the carrier's rv unit list that item as being 2 1/2" protruding from the roof into the cabin. my grandfather told me, while sitting in a bar drinking beer, that i'm better off occasionally hitting my head, rather than sweating to death! also, was informed that my 30amp shore power (two 15 amp circuits) would have to be changed to at least one 20amp circuit (for the air) and then a 10amp circuit for incidentals. apparently a/c units all require at least a 20 amp circuit. (max 2200 watts.)
Sorry I did not see this thread sooner. I have been looking into this for at least a year. I am on the RV threads and have RVed for over 45 years, so I am very familiar with the RV top type units. I also had a 13,500 BTU RV unit on the top of an enclosed bridge of my Symbol 42 foot MY.
I have also owned a several boats with the built in marine air conditioners, and know the problems that they bring. One of the biggest is jelly fish, debris or mud, clogging up the intake. They are difficult to run at speed on a cat or C Dory, and end up with a "scoop" under the water--they have to have a condensate drain, as well as overboard water drain.
I also tried (briefly) one of the "hatch" AC units--too heavy, difficult to move, not effecient. I cannot see that the under the table unit gets away from many of these problems and didn't consider it because of the disadvantages.
After a good deal of research, including lots of time looking at what the Honda EU 2000 could handle I decided on the ColemanPolar cub. Yes, it does detract--but at times you can put the dinghy over it (probably not when running the AC). I did have a condensate drain on the Symbol, but with the Tom Cat 255, having a lip, and I will be putting a Bimini with an awning rail on the aft lip, the condensate will not be a problem.
The Coleman is the only roof AC unit I can find which reliably is run with the Honda EU2000i. There are some who claim that a high effeciency 11,000 BTU can be run, but others who say it cannot not be done. No way a 13,500 will run from a Honda 2000 reliably. Lots of RVers have tried it with easy start capacitiers etc. I have a high effeciency one on a 30' RV and it will run (most of the time) on a 15 amp circuit--but the mains power will take a surge better than a Honda. It bogs down the Honda and is not satisfactory
So, I own a Polar Cub. It is not yet installed. I just had eye surgery, so I cannot work on the boat for a week or so. However I have outlined what I think is necessary for re-inforcement on the roof, and relayed this to Jeff, with the suggestion that C Dory make a mold for the upper and lower parts. This would make the installation much better--I don't like pulling the crown out of the top of the C Dory cabin roof. I am building flat moldings on the top and bottom of the roof, maintaining the arc.
I also am putting in 12 volts as well as the 110 V. There is a nice cowling for the Fantastic Fan (12" blades, reversiable 3 speed motor and thermostat)--which one can put over the 14" opening when going into colder weather or during the winter (not a bad idea to replace the gasket under the roof air each year anyway). This fan can be run during rain or under way in heavy weather if you use the proper shroud.
The RV air conditioners are not "marine", but they do fine in the Marine environment as the C Dory is used. The Army Corp of Engineer uses them on many of their small boats. The one I had on the Symbol was still gong strong after 7 years in Florida....I don't see that as a problem.
As for asthetics--the biggest issue. I will have the Radar slightly higher than the shroud of the AC--and there is also a loudhailor speaker low in front of the Radar, Thus the roof line is broken up, and the eye doesn't see just the AC unit.
Finally, as to the amount of cooling needed. I have 13,500 in a 30 foot RV and it is fine in Las Vegas in the summer...Runs all of the time, but cools adequately. I have a 5000 BTU unit in a Road Trek Class B (19 foot cabin). It is adequate for me in the bunk.
I will be insullating the roof, and making panels of reflective insullation for all windows, so that I can cool the boat during the day. Also shade is important. Shade cloth can be put over the roof, foredeck and windows.
In summary, I think that the 8100 BTU Coleman Polar Cub is probably the best bet--there are some compromises, but to be able to run the generator on "economy", and charge batteries while I am cooling makes up for those.
I have also owned a several boats with the built in marine air conditioners, and know the problems that they bring. One of the biggest is jelly fish, debris or mud, clogging up the intake. They are difficult to run at speed on a cat or C Dory, and end up with a "scoop" under the water--they have to have a condensate drain, as well as overboard water drain.
I also tried (briefly) one of the "hatch" AC units--too heavy, difficult to move, not effecient. I cannot see that the under the table unit gets away from many of these problems and didn't consider it because of the disadvantages.
After a good deal of research, including lots of time looking at what the Honda EU 2000 could handle I decided on the ColemanPolar cub. Yes, it does detract--but at times you can put the dinghy over it (probably not when running the AC). I did have a condensate drain on the Symbol, but with the Tom Cat 255, having a lip, and I will be putting a Bimini with an awning rail on the aft lip, the condensate will not be a problem.
The Coleman is the only roof AC unit I can find which reliably is run with the Honda EU2000i. There are some who claim that a high effeciency 11,000 BTU can be run, but others who say it cannot not be done. No way a 13,500 will run from a Honda 2000 reliably. Lots of RVers have tried it with easy start capacitiers etc. I have a high effeciency one on a 30' RV and it will run (most of the time) on a 15 amp circuit--but the mains power will take a surge better than a Honda. It bogs down the Honda and is not satisfactory
So, I own a Polar Cub. It is not yet installed. I just had eye surgery, so I cannot work on the boat for a week or so. However I have outlined what I think is necessary for re-inforcement on the roof, and relayed this to Jeff, with the suggestion that C Dory make a mold for the upper and lower parts. This would make the installation much better--I don't like pulling the crown out of the top of the C Dory cabin roof. I am building flat moldings on the top and bottom of the roof, maintaining the arc.
I also am putting in 12 volts as well as the 110 V. There is a nice cowling for the Fantastic Fan (12" blades, reversiable 3 speed motor and thermostat)--which one can put over the 14" opening when going into colder weather or during the winter (not a bad idea to replace the gasket under the roof air each year anyway). This fan can be run during rain or under way in heavy weather if you use the proper shroud.
The RV air conditioners are not "marine", but they do fine in the Marine environment as the C Dory is used. The Army Corp of Engineer uses them on many of their small boats. The one I had on the Symbol was still gong strong after 7 years in Florida....I don't see that as a problem.
As for asthetics--the biggest issue. I will have the Radar slightly higher than the shroud of the AC--and there is also a loudhailor speaker low in front of the Radar, Thus the roof line is broken up, and the eye doesn't see just the AC unit.
Finally, as to the amount of cooling needed. I have 13,500 in a 30 foot RV and it is fine in Las Vegas in the summer...Runs all of the time, but cools adequately. I have a 5000 BTU unit in a Road Trek Class B (19 foot cabin). It is adequate for me in the bunk.
I will be insullating the roof, and making panels of reflective insullation for all windows, so that I can cool the boat during the day. Also shade is important. Shade cloth can be put over the roof, foredeck and windows.
In summary, I think that the 8100 BTU Coleman Polar Cub is probably the best bet--there are some compromises, but to be able to run the generator on "economy", and charge batteries while I am cooling makes up for those.
Wow,
A host of other threads from the time I started mine!
I think a lot of people foreget the fan motors, plus when it gets hotter, the effeciency of the airconditioner goes down. I can easily put an ampmeter on the 13,500 AC which I run on 15 amps.
I have owned a Honda EU2000i for 3 years and it is a great genset. (I still own an earlier version which is 30 years old and still starts on the first or second pull). For us there is no other choice. We just cannot handle the weight of a larger generator. Also I would strongly recommend that you put the Genset on the swim step, with the exhaust pointing aft. There is way too much danger of CO poisoning with the generator in the cockpit.
Joe, you will probably have the same issues that Bob Searles had with his exhaust, even with a water cooled unit--I suspect you will need water cooling.
We do have the 6 gallon fuel tank for the Honda. The honda fuel pump(which works indirectly by creating a vacuum in the built in tank) is limited as to its lift to about 12", and I suspect that it will not be able to pull from the tank in a Tom Cat--but probably can from a full tank in a C Dory 22, since the tank is much higher.
I looked at the Penguin, but again found some question if they would run from the Honda 2000 in some of the RV forums.
The Glacier Bay does have a fiberglass box, which straps on the swim step for a Honda EU2000i. The standard AC is a marine 7,000 BTU unit. However I did look at a used one which had a 9,000 BTU unit and was told that the Honda would run that, but with the battery charger off.
Great ideas from the other posts!
A host of other threads from the time I started mine!
I think a lot of people foreget the fan motors, plus when it gets hotter, the effeciency of the airconditioner goes down. I can easily put an ampmeter on the 13,500 AC which I run on 15 amps.
I have owned a Honda EU2000i for 3 years and it is a great genset. (I still own an earlier version which is 30 years old and still starts on the first or second pull). For us there is no other choice. We just cannot handle the weight of a larger generator. Also I would strongly recommend that you put the Genset on the swim step, with the exhaust pointing aft. There is way too much danger of CO poisoning with the generator in the cockpit.
Joe, you will probably have the same issues that Bob Searles had with his exhaust, even with a water cooled unit--I suspect you will need water cooling.
We do have the 6 gallon fuel tank for the Honda. The honda fuel pump(which works indirectly by creating a vacuum in the built in tank) is limited as to its lift to about 12", and I suspect that it will not be able to pull from the tank in a Tom Cat--but probably can from a full tank in a C Dory 22, since the tank is much higher.
I looked at the Penguin, but again found some question if they would run from the Honda 2000 in some of the RV forums.
The Glacier Bay does have a fiberglass box, which straps on the swim step for a Honda EU2000i. The standard AC is a marine 7,000 BTU unit. However I did look at a used one which had a 9,000 BTU unit and was told that the Honda would run that, but with the battery charger off.
Great ideas from the other posts!
Bob-
Well thought out and very through as per your usual self! :thup :thup :thup
Earlier on this thread it was mentioned that someone on The Hull Truth Forum had successfully used a 5000 btu window AC unit on a 24 ft sailboat with a 1000 watt Yamaha generator. I asked them on that forum what AC unit they employed, and here is the answer:
"Cavitating-
I'm interested in the AC unit that you're using that works with the 1000-w Yamaha, since I have a 1000-w Honda with the same electronic parameters.
Joe
-----
C-Wolf-
I bought a Fedders 5000 BTU window unit at Wal-Mart for under $100. I have the unit at the marina hours away so I can not help you with the model number. I can tell you that it has manual controls not digital controls. They have another unit with digital controls and rated at 5200 BTU but I wanted to stay away from the extra 200 BTU knowing that it could be the difference between the generator being able to start it or not.
My Yamaha 1000 holds .66 gallons of fuel and with the thermostat in the coldest position and the fan on high, it will run for about 6 1/2 to 7 hours cooling my Hunter 240 to a nice 72 degrees. I have set the thermostat to 3/4 and lower the fan to low and it will run for about one more hour since the compressor cycles more often and the temperature stays at about 76. The extra hour is a very nice trade off because in the morning, once the air conditoner stops, the cabin warms up pretty fast.
The most important part about the air conditioner is that it lowers the humidity considerably making you feel very confortable. Sun, heat and humidity in Florida can take a toll on you.
During the past 30 years, I have had 3 Hondas and 2 Yamahas. They have all performed flawlessly all the time."
It is also important to note that another factor involved in the generator/AC employment discussed on the forum was the effect of the extension cord used to connect the two. 12-3 (12 gauge wire, three conductors) was considered the minimum desirable for the small 1000 watt units, and some cheaper or longer cords would "choke" the transfer of electrical energy from the generator to the AC unit due to higher resistance, so going down a size or so would be advisable (to 10-3 for the 1000 watt units, lower for the 2000 or 3000 watt units).
Joe
Well thought out and very through as per your usual self! :thup :thup :thup
Earlier on this thread it was mentioned that someone on The Hull Truth Forum had successfully used a 5000 btu window AC unit on a 24 ft sailboat with a 1000 watt Yamaha generator. I asked them on that forum what AC unit they employed, and here is the answer:
"Cavitating-
I'm interested in the AC unit that you're using that works with the 1000-w Yamaha, since I have a 1000-w Honda with the same electronic parameters.
Joe
-----
C-Wolf-
I bought a Fedders 5000 BTU window unit at Wal-Mart for under $100. I have the unit at the marina hours away so I can not help you with the model number. I can tell you that it has manual controls not digital controls. They have another unit with digital controls and rated at 5200 BTU but I wanted to stay away from the extra 200 BTU knowing that it could be the difference between the generator being able to start it or not.
My Yamaha 1000 holds .66 gallons of fuel and with the thermostat in the coldest position and the fan on high, it will run for about 6 1/2 to 7 hours cooling my Hunter 240 to a nice 72 degrees. I have set the thermostat to 3/4 and lower the fan to low and it will run for about one more hour since the compressor cycles more often and the temperature stays at about 76. The extra hour is a very nice trade off because in the morning, once the air conditoner stops, the cabin warms up pretty fast.
The most important part about the air conditioner is that it lowers the humidity considerably making you feel very confortable. Sun, heat and humidity in Florida can take a toll on you.
During the past 30 years, I have had 3 Hondas and 2 Yamahas. They have all performed flawlessly all the time."
It is also important to note that another factor involved in the generator/AC employment discussed on the forum was the effect of the extension cord used to connect the two. 12-3 (12 gauge wire, three conductors) was considered the minimum desirable for the small 1000 watt units, and some cheaper or longer cords would "choke" the transfer of electrical energy from the generator to the AC unit due to higher resistance, so going down a size or so would be advisable (to 10-3 for the 1000 watt units, lower for the 2000 or 3000 watt units).
Joe
The air conditioner in my Road Trek is one of those 5000 BTU Fedders units. In Road Trek's wisdom, they built in a "shelf" in the back of the top which will take a Fedders manual AC unit from 5000 to 8000 BTU. I suspect it would run on one of the Yahama or Honda 1000 units. It runs very well on my Honda EU2000i on economy mode. The 5000 is not enough to cool the entire RV in really hot weather, so I put a "curtain" made of a quilt to insulate the back 1/2 half or the van, and it is quite comfortable even in 100 degree heat. The C Dories have a large amount of window space--proportionate to what I had with the Symbol MY with an enclosed flying bridge. In the heat of the day, without any sun blocking or heat insullation, the 13,000 BTU unit would struggle to bring the temperature 20 degrees below ambient. I think that the C Dory even with 8100/8300 BTU?? would be somewhat similar, and that is why I think heat blocking is necessary for the windows. I am not planning on using the AC under way.
I'll settle for a good breeze to cool adequately. I also don't want to expose the Honda to salt spray. Unfortunately the aft "Seat" box is not quite deep enough for the Honda, so I will either have to build a top, which seals (I have yet to get the factory top and cushion), and is higher, or go to my local Glacier Bay dealer and buy one of their boxes (other option is a box from Walmart). We will use a Garhauer davit to lift the generator onto the motor bracket/swim step (because we both have back problems, even the Honda is too much for us to lift on a regular basis).
I'll settle for a good breeze to cool adequately. I also don't want to expose the Honda to salt spray. Unfortunately the aft "Seat" box is not quite deep enough for the Honda, so I will either have to build a top, which seals (I have yet to get the factory top and cushion), and is higher, or go to my local Glacier Bay dealer and buy one of their boxes (other option is a box from Walmart). We will use a Garhauer davit to lift the generator onto the motor bracket/swim step (because we both have back problems, even the Honda is too much for us to lift on a regular basis).
Looking at the various small air conditioners, they seem to be all most equally effecient. True, capaciters will make easy start, and there are ways of making a motor slightly more energy effecient--but am I missing something about the basic laws of thermodynamics? The range of effeciency reported varies by about 10% maximum. All of the manufactures want to have "the most cooling, for the least current draw"
An interesting article is at: http://www.villagekitchen.com/vk/comments/rv_ac.html
Caution, I don't know how much actual knowlege this poster has.
He looks only at 15,000 BTU units, but does include the Carrier and Dometic (including the Brisk)--there is really little difference in effeciency as measured watts of power used per BTU. One has to be sure that apples and apples are compared--that all 13,500 BTU units are really producing that much cooling, and that the current draw is really as low as it seems--again getting back to effeciency at temperature (and as pointed out with the voltage within "normal' ranges).
I don't think I would go larger than #10 guage wire to the AC unit, because the wires to the plugs and the cord from the generator will not be more than 10 guage. Both boat and house wiring calls for 10 guage for 30 amps. It might be very interesting--and something I will do when I get my unit installed--to moniter the voltage at the unit as the compressor starts up. It is quite possiable that the Honda generator may maintain a higher voltage than in marinas, with long runs of wire and increased resistance due to corrosion and moisture.
A 20 amp circuit would be fine for the airconditioner, but you won't shouldn't be running much else. Another issue brought up in the above article is the damage which can be done to the compressor/or motor when you have rapid cycling. This might be caused by an under powered generator trying to start the motor, and failing, then starting again. He mentions that RV type air conditioners do not have a rapid cycling relay. Something to consider putting on--but also that will slightly increase current draw.....
An interesting article is at: http://www.villagekitchen.com/vk/comments/rv_ac.html
Caution, I don't know how much actual knowlege this poster has.
He looks only at 15,000 BTU units, but does include the Carrier and Dometic (including the Brisk)--there is really little difference in effeciency as measured watts of power used per BTU. One has to be sure that apples and apples are compared--that all 13,500 BTU units are really producing that much cooling, and that the current draw is really as low as it seems--again getting back to effeciency at temperature (and as pointed out with the voltage within "normal' ranges).
I don't think I would go larger than #10 guage wire to the AC unit, because the wires to the plugs and the cord from the generator will not be more than 10 guage. Both boat and house wiring calls for 10 guage for 30 amps. It might be very interesting--and something I will do when I get my unit installed--to moniter the voltage at the unit as the compressor starts up. It is quite possiable that the Honda generator may maintain a higher voltage than in marinas, with long runs of wire and increased resistance due to corrosion and moisture.
A 20 amp circuit would be fine for the airconditioner, but you won't shouldn't be running much else. Another issue brought up in the above article is the damage which can be done to the compressor/or motor when you have rapid cycling. This might be caused by an under powered generator trying to start the motor, and failing, then starting again. He mentions that RV type air conditioners do not have a rapid cycling relay. Something to consider putting on--but also that will slightly increase current draw.....
The roof air units on my motorhome (Holiday Rambler) have automatic 2 minute cycling delays built in. The management system will alternate between the two units if you are on 30 amps instead of 50 amps.
While I am not recommending this, one guy on our dock installed a small window a/c unit in his bilge with the face blowing into the lower cabin. It's hard for me to see how it worked, but he has used it for many years that way.
From my experience in Kansas, Texas, Florida waters, I do not see how anything less than 13,500 Btus will work well on a mid summer day. John
While I am not recommending this, one guy on our dock installed a small window a/c unit in his bilge with the face blowing into the lower cabin. It's hard for me to see how it worked, but he has used it for many years that way.
From my experience in Kansas, Texas, Florida waters, I do not see how anything less than 13,500 Btus will work well on a mid summer day. John