Air Conditioning for the TomCat
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Mike...
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Hi Dr. Bob.
So as you can see, I finally decided the wannaboat username had to go. Thanks to Tyboo for changing it.
I wonder if the Carrier has a soft start capacitor. If not, I wonder if it could be added. If so, and it were big enough, it would save on generator weight.
By the way, where do you put your generator? And how lash it down?
I did find the DC Breeze, but it is water cooled, am I am determined to not drill any holes in the hull. Plus I hear that water cooled systems are are a pain in the butt.
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mike
So as you can see, I finally decided the wannaboat username had to go. Thanks to Tyboo for changing it.
Maybe the EF2400iSHC but it is 30 lbs more.thataway":sz2ucja5 said:
I wonder if the Carrier has a soft start capacitor. If not, I wonder if it could be added. If so, and it were big enough, it would save on generator weight.
By the way, where do you put your generator? And how lash it down?
I did find the DC Breeze, but it is water cooled, am I am determined to not drill any holes in the hull. Plus I hear that water cooled systems are are a pain in the butt.
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mike
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My generator sits on the engine bracket on the port side, on top of a plastic "crate"--this keeps it about 2 feet above any water. The tank goes on another crate. I keep stuff in the crate when not using them for the AC units. Lacking milk trucks in our area, I purchased the plastic crates at West Marine.
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Mike...":3bjihsbp said:
Nope, that's Get~Aweigh, Southlake's boat. From his album.
Charlie
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Mike,
I see you do not want the portable a/c unit like the De Longhi , double tube unit I have had in my TomCat for years now.
However, please note that, even if you could find a 12V unit, it would take many multiples of pounds over the weight of a Honda 2000i and a De Longhi unit.
The De Longhi requires no holes in the hull, nor in cabinets and can be wheeled down the dock and ramp easily with one.
the portable a/c units have another major advantage over the roof air and marine air units - they come with a slow start rotary compressor which limits the start up load greatly. On days in the 80's I can run my a/c on the Honda Economy setting, but have to go to the full power setting in the High 80's and nineties with humidity. Even so, it will run about 8 hours on one tiny tank of fuel and then the Honda shuts itself off, so you do not have to get up in the middle of the night and mess with it.
I use these portable units in my upstairs bedrooms at the farmhouse since no need to a/c them unless my boys are visiting, or other company. They are quieter than most roof airs since the vibrations do not go into the roof. My last houseboat had roof a/c units, but the vibrations were magnified thru the roof mount, so hard to talk and listen to radio/music, etc. when they were on.
Depending upon the size of the portable units, you can place them in the cabinet aft of the dinette, atop that cabinet, in front of the front dinette seat or even one fits under the bow roof sitting on the base of the foward bunk.
You could install more permanent tubing entries using those air cowls, but I kind of like just pulling mine in and closing the bunk window to keep bugs and wasps out of the venting system. The tubes run above the bunke enough that they do not interrupt normal leg room bunk space.
so, an inexepensive, KISS method of a/c is just finding a portable that fits.
They also come with a "dehumidify" setting which keeps your boat smelling sweet and dry.
John
I see you do not want the portable a/c unit like the De Longhi , double tube unit I have had in my TomCat for years now.
However, please note that, even if you could find a 12V unit, it would take many multiples of pounds over the weight of a Honda 2000i and a De Longhi unit.
The De Longhi requires no holes in the hull, nor in cabinets and can be wheeled down the dock and ramp easily with one.
the portable a/c units have another major advantage over the roof air and marine air units - they come with a slow start rotary compressor which limits the start up load greatly. On days in the 80's I can run my a/c on the Honda Economy setting, but have to go to the full power setting in the High 80's and nineties with humidity. Even so, it will run about 8 hours on one tiny tank of fuel and then the Honda shuts itself off, so you do not have to get up in the middle of the night and mess with it.
I use these portable units in my upstairs bedrooms at the farmhouse since no need to a/c them unless my boys are visiting, or other company. They are quieter than most roof airs since the vibrations do not go into the roof. My last houseboat had roof a/c units, but the vibrations were magnified thru the roof mount, so hard to talk and listen to radio/music, etc. when they were on.
Depending upon the size of the portable units, you can place them in the cabinet aft of the dinette, atop that cabinet, in front of the front dinette seat or even one fits under the bow roof sitting on the base of the foward bunk.
You could install more permanent tubing entries using those air cowls, but I kind of like just pulling mine in and closing the bunk window to keep bugs and wasps out of the venting system. The tubes run above the bunke enough that they do not interrupt normal leg room bunk space.
so, an inexepensive, KISS method of a/c is just finding a portable that fits.
They also come with a "dehumidify" setting which keeps your boat smelling sweet and dry.
John
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Only because of space. We'll often have two adults and three kids in the boat, and space is already tight. My wife, who thinks the best thing to make for dinner is reservations, would prefer I rip out the galley and put the same seating/table starboard as there is to port. :shock:drjohn71a":8myfqaln said:
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So the sleeping plan is three kids and one adult on the forward bunk--and one adult on the dining table? There are some who cruise with that many on the C Dory 22, but it is crowded.
I also assume that you will be doing a lot of marina hopping if the cooking means that you are going to eat out. For your use, I would still think that the roof air would be the best--it just depends on which size you want, and how big or many generators you use...There are prices to pay.
I also assume that you will be doing a lot of marina hopping if the cooking means that you are going to eat out. For your use, I would still think that the roof air would be the best--it just depends on which size you want, and how big or many generators you use...There are prices to pay.
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I think the sleeping plan is every man for himself!thataway":2o8oqbmg said:
Assuming the Admiral doesn't ultimately convince me to replace the galley, we are going to have to try the four and one plan. But it will be tight.
Yes. We'll pack a picnic lunch and eat out for dinner.thataway":2o8oqbmg said:
Yes, this thread has convinced me of that. The issue is where to put with the darn generator. I would prefer a permanent mounting of some sort.thataway":2o8oqbmg said:
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Mike, mount it on the armstrong bracket on a secure mount of sorts with a visible lock. You can make a cover for it if you're not in a covered berth. You'll only use it for about 4 months anyway and the cable can be run up the stbd side to the shore power receptacle.
No sense in carrying it around for the other 8 months. You could plumb it into the fuel system back there and not carry a gas tank.
Charlie
No sense in carrying it around for the other 8 months. You could plumb it into the fuel system back there and not carry a gas tank.
Charlie
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Mike,
Have you checked out my generator box installation on my TomCat, in the photo album? I got an aluminum underbody box from Tractor Supply and cut some hinged doors in it. I have used it in the Gulf of Mexico in 6-8 foot waves as well with no problems since I put some aft drain holes in the bottom and the intake vents are up against the stern of the boat.
John
Also, in my houseboat, I could never get my three boys to sleep in the bunks. They wanted to sleep in the cockpit or on the floor of the cabin - yes right in the way to the bathroom! I got some of those foam pads and sleeping bags and they were very happy with that.
Have you checked out my generator box installation on my TomCat, in the photo album? I got an aluminum underbody box from Tractor Supply and cut some hinged doors in it. I have used it in the Gulf of Mexico in 6-8 foot waves as well with no problems since I put some aft drain holes in the bottom and the intake vents are up against the stern of the boat.
John
Also, in my houseboat, I could never get my three boys to sleep in the bunks. They wanted to sleep in the cockpit or on the floor of the cabin - yes right in the way to the bathroom! I got some of those foam pads and sleeping bags and they were very happy with that.
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MIke,
Also, somewhere on this site is a photo of some bunk beds made over the dinette and a slidable extension which makes the dinette berth wider.
Additionally, if, like me, you don't use the Wallas stove much in the summer, you could mount a portable a/c unit atop the normal stove position and anchor it into the starboard or head wall for stability. In my boat, the Starboard side needs more weight usually.
John
Also, somewhere on this site is a photo of some bunk beds made over the dinette and a slidable extension which makes the dinette berth wider.
Additionally, if, like me, you don't use the Wallas stove much in the summer, you could mount a portable a/c unit atop the normal stove position and anchor it into the starboard or head wall for stability. In my boat, the Starboard side needs more weight usually.
John
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My aluminum box allows you to climb over it, even if the genset is running. On a hot day you have to put a towel or something over the metal or it will burn you whether the genset is on or off.
John
John
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Neat! Do you board the boat over that? Use it as a step? If so, does that work out ok?drjohn71a":3s8ft84v said:
EDIT: Never mind, I see you already answered the question in your next post.
That may work - but obstacles directly in the path of the head are dangerous.drjohn71a":3s8ft84v said:
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Coming up the dive ladder, the top of the aluminum box is just below knee level. One can step over it, but usually, if at sea, we just sit on the box and swivel our legs into the cockpit, then stand up. That reduces the risk of falling.
If the genset is on, a life jacket or towel will have to be put on the top of the box before sitting on it. We keep the box closed when the genset is operating. Also, the spare fuel tanks are placed on the Armstrong bracket, between the engine tubes when the unit is running. So far, none have ever fallen off.
John
If the genset is on, a life jacket or towel will have to be put on the top of the box before sitting on it. We keep the box closed when the genset is operating. Also, the spare fuel tanks are placed on the Armstrong bracket, between the engine tubes when the unit is running. So far, none have ever fallen off.
John
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Maybe the booth extensions were on another site. One had a slot with a 'breadboard' type board that slid out and a leg was plugged in the extended end.
Another had two boards hinged for each seat with piano hinge which were opened to form an "L" with one leg on the floor and the rest horizontally resting on the seat. There would be some leveling problems with the side trim as things are on C-Dory's right now, but a spacer or such would help that.
I think there is enough room on the TomCat to extend the dinette bed and still be able to slide by between the sink and the bed edge.
Re: the Genset Box, there is plenty of room, over an inch, in the lid to allow for some dense thermal or sound insulation, and I had planned to do that in the beginning, but we have had no problems running the unit as it is. It is pretty quiet since most of the sound is bounced aft off the transom and we are usually pretty wet coming aboard off the swim ladder and have plenty of towels handy. So far no problems, but with small kids, maybe the heat would be a danger.
John
Another had two boards hinged for each seat with piano hinge which were opened to form an "L" with one leg on the floor and the rest horizontally resting on the seat. There would be some leveling problems with the side trim as things are on C-Dory's right now, but a spacer or such would help that.
I think there is enough room on the TomCat to extend the dinette bed and still be able to slide by between the sink and the bed edge.
Re: the Genset Box, there is plenty of room, over an inch, in the lid to allow for some dense thermal or sound insulation, and I had planned to do that in the beginning, but we have had no problems running the unit as it is. It is pretty quiet since most of the sound is bounced aft off the transom and we are usually pretty wet coming aboard off the swim ladder and have plenty of towels handy. So far no problems, but with small kids, maybe the heat would be a danger.
John
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The honda generators will NOT pull fuel up from the tanks. The head is way too much. You cannot use a low pressure pump either--that puts too much pressure on the Honda tank. The only practical solution is a tank at about the same head level as the fuel tank in the generator.
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As Dr. Bob says, it's too complicated to run fuel from the main tanks. The benefit of having a generator running on the swim step is that the natural flow will vent the area well. Even the Honda extended run tank has to be set at just the correct height to run. I have the extended run tank, but it is too cumbersome for our boat sizes.
I rarely have to run the A/C more than a few hours at a time, and usually only for 15 to 20 minutes to run some appliances.
To put things in perspective, the Honda i2000 will run a De Longhi 11,000 BtU A/C unit at full speed in 90-100 degree weather for 8 hours on it's internal tank. In the mid 80's, it will run in the Economy mode for 12 or more hours. Things usually cool off at night so it it no big deal for the genset to turn itself off after you've had 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.
It is so very nice to run the genset when cooking a big meal so you can use toaster oven, microwave, TV, etc., or heat the water tank.
The TomCat's Armstrong brackets allow a lot of space for storing extra gas tanks, but you have to be careful to arrange them to allow full and free movement of the outboards while underway.
Once you start running new fuel lines in the hull, you are opening a dangerous can of worms unless you are an expert.
John
I rarely have to run the A/C more than a few hours at a time, and usually only for 15 to 20 minutes to run some appliances.
To put things in perspective, the Honda i2000 will run a De Longhi 11,000 BtU A/C unit at full speed in 90-100 degree weather for 8 hours on it's internal tank. In the mid 80's, it will run in the Economy mode for 12 or more hours. Things usually cool off at night so it it no big deal for the genset to turn itself off after you've had 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.
It is so very nice to run the genset when cooking a big meal so you can use toaster oven, microwave, TV, etc., or heat the water tank.
The TomCat's Armstrong brackets allow a lot of space for storing extra gas tanks, but you have to be careful to arrange them to allow full and free movement of the outboards while underway.
Once you start running new fuel lines in the hull, you are opening a dangerous can of worms unless you are an expert.
John
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It does seem about the only place to put a generator is on the Armstrong bracket.drjohn71a":bop2luni said:
You know, if it were not for those stupid fish boxes, I could put the generator in the cockpit right up near the cabin. Maybe even get a nice, vented lockable fiberglass box built in there. But no, those useless fish boxes taunt me yet again!
John, here it looks like you have a metal flap that partially protects the generator's air intake from seawater. Is that the case?
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mike