AC and Gen for 22'?

R

Roy & Dixie

New member
Just cruised St Johns in FL and had upper 90's with heat index of 105 degrees. It was bad enough during the day, but at least we were moving and had some air movement from boat speed and a 12v fan we can move around in the cabin. It was dead calm at anchor and temp remained in upper 80's well into the night. We swam around the boat as the sun was going down to cool down some, but this only helped for a few min. The 12v fan made dinner livable (we ate well after dark and used the stove as short a time as possible). The 12v fan was run all night and finally temp dropped to the point we could get comfortable sleep well after midnight. We purchased a 5BTU small window AC that can be mounted in the front hatch at a dock if power is available, which we have not yet used, since we anchor off 99% of the time. That AC unit would be almost impossible to move from the interior of the boat to the front deck at anchor due to its weight and size.

We are to the point of considering a roof mounted AC powered by a 2000W Honda gen. and we need advice concerning this. What is the smallest, lightest, lowest profile, AC available, and would the @2000W gen power it? What would need to be done to the overhead to install the AC other than cut the 14"x14" opening and run wiring? Or should we simply cruise in cooler weather and keep the boat simple as was intended initially?
 
We bought a small 5k unit at Walmart for $100 and have our eu2000i to power it. We put the AC in the center opening window. We did not hook the eu2000i into our fuel tanks, but could be done easily. We would fill the fuel tank and the generator would run out of gas around 5AM after running all night.

Lately we have cruised in areas that we needed heat not AC - but it is nice to have the option to run AC.

Here is pictures of our EU2000i on the boat:

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

We replaced our Onan LP generator on our Winnebago View with (2) EU2000i hooked together. We have a 13.5k AC and after the startup of the AC, we can shut one eu2000i off and the AC will still run. But we run both anyway as they run in ECO mode when both are running the AC.
 
At 3700 feet altitude at Lake Powell The Honda 2000 won't run the littlest Wally World air conditioner. Of course, with the heat of powell, the density altitude is closer to 4500 to 5500 feet. So the 2000 is way down on horsepower.

The real issue with AC is the startup amps required that the smaller inverter type generators have a tough time dealing with. The inverter type would do fine steady running once the start up is past. Start up amp requirements can easily exceed twice the running amps.

So, your altitude will also have an affect, because though you are at sea level, the density altitude may be at 1500 feet. Humidity also affects the power of engines in a negative way.

Non-inverter 2000 watt gens run small AC okay.

I any case, your results will vary from my experience. Just think of start up amp requirements as being the enemy.
 
If you go roof top, get the low profile Coleman Polar cub, 9200 BTU
I don't have personal experience with this unit, but most RV forums folks report no problems running this unit off of a EU2000.

I do have a standard Coleman Roof unit on a RV, 13,000 BTU I think and the EU 2000 will not run it.


http://www.rvproductsshop.com/coleman-m ... 1a876.html

We have a 5,000 BTU window unit permanently mounted in the right rear window of our 22 Cruiser, (photos in Bixby's Cub album) We removed the window glass and changed it to plexiglas cut to fix the AC unit.

It works well on the EU 1000, even at higher elevations.

We also run the window unit with our onboard 1500watt inverter when underway with no issues.

If you go window unit, try to find one with manual analog twist knob controls. They seem to hold up better than the ones with the digital readout and controls.

Use the "Red Cap" fuel feed for extended running times With the EU1000 or EU2000.
 
Roy,
We have a roof mounted unit. We run it with a EU 2000 Honda generator when we are not connected to shore power. Our boat is a Venture model which are said to have a reinforced roof. We have a 14 X 14 square hole. No reinforcement was done as I can see. Wefings installed it when the boat was purchased in 2009. I think the A.C. is rated at 9000 or 9500 btu. We never have run it on high, just low settings with the temp knob not even turned to the coldest setting. It gets like a meat locker. I really did not want to have the look of the roof mounted A.C. unit but I'm used to it and it's one less thing to have to move around. The portable units looked too ghetto for my taste. But they are considerably cheaper I think ours is a Coleman Mach RV unit and it's still going strong after 5 years. Other than our autopilot the air conditioner is our favorite accessory. We do not notice any top heavy effects to the boats handling. Ours was 1600 dollars installed and outside of changing the filters knock on wood it has been exceptional.
D.D.
 
Check the Osprey photo album he has recently installed a unit like our in a 22' Cruiser. He has a nested photo album on the install.
D.D.
 
The Polar Cub 9200 Roof Air will run fine off an EU 2000. (This is what we had on the Tom Cat) I am most surprised that the 2000 will not run a 5000 BTU WalMart window AC--the EU 1000 runs it fine in most places we have boated.


I did not try and run the EU 1000 on the 5000 BTU air conditioner at Powell the several times I took it up there--since it was not necessary.

At powell, the EU1000 runs 30 amp and a 20 amp battery chargers (combined two different chargers) with no problems. I do have a way of testing it--and that is an induction stove, which will run on 275 degrees with the EU 1000. I will see how that works in a couple of weeks.

As far as the start up for any AC you want to run on a lower output generator, in most cases the Dometic "Smart Start" unit--(not just a quick start capacitor, but a transistorized circuit which varies the power input on start up.)
http://www.dometic.com/enie/Internation ... t-Starter/
 
Potter Water, you are the one who said that the Honda EU2000i will not run a 5000 WalMart (mine happens to be an "Arctic King"). Any place where one is running an AC on a boat will be hot. I am not familiar with tables which show reduction of HP of a generator due to ambient heat.

My understanding is that one looses 3- 3.5% HP per 1000 foot elevation. This would suggest about 13% loss of HP at Powell. Sea level rated outputs:
Honda EU1000i:Max Output: 1000 watts (8.3 amps)Rated Output: 900 watts (7.5 amps) or 7.2 amps max at 3700 feet

Honda EU2000i:Max Output: 2000 watts (16.7 amps)Rated Output: 1600 watts (13.3 amps) or 14.5 amps max at 3700 feet.

The starting load is the limiting factor with the air conditioners. Honda EU series use the "eco" mode for reducing RPM and noise. However, for starting air conditioners you have to turn off the Eco mode to start an air conditioner. After starting I found that at least the EU 2000i will run the 9200 Polar Cub on eco mode--it you need to restart--then back to full throttle! If you could not get an EU 2000i to run a WalMart 5,000 BTU air conditioner, my only thought that you had the Honda on eco mode. The engine will not spool up fast enough to take that starting load.

In the RV forums, it is said that the honda generators will have full output up to about 5000 feet. I have not tested that personally.

I have run the Honda EU 1000i, and the Arctic King 5000 BTU on the desert--but don't know the exact altitude, although it was over 2500 feet. High altitude jets are available for the Honda EU series--but they suggest not changing to the next jet up until at 4000 feet or more.

The question was asked about modification of the overhead--we have built a frame inside of wood, to re-enforce the fiberglass thin roof, and made it level with glass buildup in the inside: See the photos on "Thataway" album
 
You are right, Bob. I was only talking about HP degradation due to density altitude which is of course a variable based upon ambient air temperature and to some extent on humidity. Geographical altitudes and actual air pressure altitudes are only equal at 59.5 degrees ambient and some dew point factor that escapes me from my flying days. In any case, density altitude is often overlooked as we search for why motor powered gadgets just don't work as well on hot days as on cold days.
 
Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original request. As always, there is a lot of knowledge and experience out there and many glad to share that. After looking at photos and reading the responses I am thinking of using my never-used Walmart 5000 BTU unit mounted in the Stb aft window opening. This installation would be based on several factors: 1) if the inside window frame is simply unscrewed, releasing the outside frame with glass, grommet and frame still one assembly. Is this the case? I would want to have the AC installed on a seasonal basis (summer), and removed for winter use of the boat here in Fla. 2) I would need to pull the AC out so as to open the range so as to refill the alcohol from time to time. This should not be a big problem, I feel, depending on how the AC is secured for trailing and being underway. Or could the window be quickly removed at the end of the day and quickly replaced for travel with the AC stored elsewhere?

More than one of you has stated that the 1000W Honda would handle the 5000 BTU AC. I would plan on that gen due to size and weight if it will start and run the AC. Most of my cruising is at sea level.

I hate to cut a hole in the overhead, plus any additional height would require me to replace my storage shed; I only clear the entrance opening by 4-5 inches now.

Any additional thoughts and information will be appreciated.
 
On my window unit permanent installation the unit extends 11 inches aft of the rear bulkhead and 2inches into the cabin. Not sure if 2 inches would allow you to raise the lid on the stove or not.
It does not get in the way and it is there when we want it. I would not want to mess with constant mounting and remounting.
As I mentioned before you will need to remove the glass and use custom cut plexiglass tailored to your installation.

With a little creativity you should be able to come up with a system for a quick mounting and demounting of the unit in the back window. The window frame is a 2 piece unit with an inner and outer flange. It pretty much needs to be mounted permanently and bedded with silicone or 4200.


If you need to relocate the stove or are considering a different one, On my boat it was an easy matter to remove the countertop, reconfigure for a one burner propane stove, and relocate the sink. A local formica guy then did a new formica surface with the new stove and sink location. It was not much trouble at all.

While you are in there, replace the Cad-plated angle brackets with galvanized ones. Mine were rusted pretty bad. The stainless brackets were too pricey for me and the galvanized ones should outlive me.

Good luck
 
Texasair, Thank you for the latest post. I have looked at your photos and have decided to continue with designing a way to install my existing 5000 BTU unit in the stb aft window, much as you have done. I do have a few more questions which I will post here so everyone who has been involved can continue to be involved if they want to jump in at any time.

I have found the Red Cap system online at Northern Tools & Eqpt co, but it is a complete system including the tank, lines, and cap for over $100. Is there a source for just the cap? I have a spare 6gal tank and could get the fittings and line at W-M.

How is fuel drawn from the spare tank into the Honda tank? Evidently the Honda has a fuel pump which pulls a vacuum if the Honda tank is not vented, thus drawing fuel up from the reserve tank. Is this how it is done?

You mention that you also run the AC from your 1500W inverter when underway. Even if your OB engine alternator is putting out 14v, I figure the AC (mine is 515w) would require almost 40a DC from 12v system to power the inverter. Do you have a high output alternator on your engine?

Have you ever calculated the gph fuel the Honda uses with your AC online on a hot day/night?

This afternoon I spent quiet a bit of time removing the window from the boat. A few screws and the 2 inner flange sections come right off. But the sealer used by the factory 15yr ago had the outer flange secured to the boat forever. I did not want to damage the fiberglass or scratch the white paint on or bend the flange. It took over 2hr using a long thin bladed kitchen knife, googone, and padded screw drivers to slowly cut the sealer and release the window flange. But it was done with no damage. I plan to construct a shelf, the size of the AC base (13"x17") on which to set and attach the AC. The AC will be left in place when in fresh water, but removed while underway in salt, due to the salt spray I always seem to take, and also removed during the winter months use. I have a large chill chest that the AC will fit into to keep it out of the salt spray but out of the cabin when not in use. The chest also offers great on-deck seating. I'm thinking of sealing the window outer flange to the boat using a thin rubber gasket when the window is installed.

I'll keep everyone posted as I progress.
 
i bought my red cap a couple of years ago as a stand alone unit for about $30.

Don't know if you can buy one separately, I believe there is another similar brand out there.

Others have simply drilled and tapped a OEM Honda fuel cap.

The EU 1000 and EU 2000 have a engine vacuum fuel pump, so the end on the hose going to the cap acts as a vent, if it is immersed in gas or connected to a gas can it sucks gas to keep the integral fuel tank full. I usually get 6-7 hours running the EU 1000 and the 5000BTU window unit on the integral tank, which is not a full nights sleep for us.
So we usually tap into a 3 gallon tank.
The EU1000 has a .6 gallon tank so if I get 6 hours, that is .1 gallons per hour or 10 hours per gallon.

The tank is usually level or a bit below the generator and works well.
I have read that the fuel pump on the Honda generators cannot lift the fuel a great distance. Personally have not tried it but it may lift directly from the boat fuel tanks, depending on how high the genset is.

My Mercury 90 hp outboard comes stock from the factory with a 60 amp alternator and has no problem powering the AC through the onboard inverter. I understand that some other motors have much a smaller output, so this may not be an option for you.

Good luck
 
texasair":3d26pyf2 said:
i bought my red cap a couple of years ago as a stand alone unit for about $30.

Don't know if you can buy one separately, I believe there is another similar brand out there.

Others have simply drilled and tapped a OEM Honda fuel cap.

The EU 1000 and EU 2000 have a engine vacuum fuel pump, so the end on the hose going to the cap acts as a vent, if it is immersed in gas or connected to a gas can it sucks gas to keep the integral fuel tank full. I usually get 6-7 hours running the EU 1000 and the 5000BTU window unit on the integral tank, which is not a full nights sleep for us.
So we usually tap into a 3 gallon tank.
The EU1000 has a .6 gallon tank so if I get 6 hours, that is .1 gallons per hour or 10 hours per gallon.

The tank is usually level or a bit below the generator and works well.
I have read that the fuel pump on the Honda generators cannot lift the fuel a great distance. Personally have not tried it but it may lift directly from the boat fuel tanks, depending on how high the genset is.

My Mercury 90 hp outboard comes stock from the factory with a 60 amp alternator and has no problem powering the AC through the onboard inverter. I understand that some other motors have much a smaller output, so this may not be an option for you.

Good luck
Click to expand...

WOW, what a wealth of information! I'm afraid that my 1999 Yamaha 80 only has a 25a alternator. It originally had a undersized regulator which was burned out when I bought the boat. This seems to have been a common problem. That regulator has been replaced with the heavier unit, but I'm sure I cannot achieve anything close to 40a. But if I can run the AC for 10hr on a gallon of fuel, it would take years to save enough on fuel to cover the cost of the inverter, unless I wanted a/c power for other high current devices.

I'll post my final results.
 
Although the EU 1000 run the AC fine,
It really works hard on the microwave.
I hunted long and hard to find a small microwave that has a minimal
draw. A lot of the real small microwaves draw a bunch of power.

I have one with a 600w output, but it draws 850w, The EU 1000 will barely run it and occasionally will trip the overload on the genset.
But fortunately microwaves are usually used for no more than a few minutes at a time.

Another little generator mounting item. I cut a 3" long piece of mild steel lightweight round tubing the same ID as the exhaust opening. Welded it it at a direction and angle as a short exhaust extension to best direct the exhaust flow away from the boat based on my mounting position of the generator.

CO2 really scares me.
Several years ago at a rodeo event we had a mother and daughter pass away on Easter morning in a horse trailer/RV parked next to us. The portable generator was removed from the horse trailer and placed on the ground over 10 feet away from the living quarters and it still killed them. It was real sad.

Please make sure that you have a CO2 dectector tested and with fresh batteries in the berth. A CO2 dectector might of saved 2 lives that day.
 
Carbon MONOxide is the real killer. I don't think CO2 ever represents a threat. unless you are in a near 100% concentration.

However, I like the posters comments about a neighbors generator pumping CO to a nearby place, enough to result in the death of an innocent.

Something I'll now be conscious about when I place my generator and be alert about where other's are placing theirs.

Good comment.
 
I meant Carbon Monoxide,

Bob, the microwave is a Haier HMC610BEBB.
I have a white one in the boat and a black one in the camper.

The AC is Fridigaire ERA 052 XT7

Both are the old school analog twist knob controls rather than digital.
The non digital controlled units are getting harder to find.
In fact, since I have the same AC and Microwave in my boat and Pickup camper I picked up an extra one of each for a spare. Both were under $100 each.

I have had poor luck with the digital controlled units in a coastal environment.
 
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