A very SH***Y aspect of owning a C-D 25

R

Ron on Meander

New member
Well, I was feeling pretty good about the service I just performed on my Wallas. So good in fact I decided to change the impeller in the macerator pump. The pump was not performing that great and I though an impeller might do the trick. Sooooo I opened up the the cockpit hatch that gives access to the macerator. Hmmm I thought, this smells a bit strong. Maybe the hoses will need to be changed soon because they have become permeated with the smell. Oh well, that's doable and probably good preventitive maintenance. As I was examining the hoses to see what would be involved, I noticed a drip, drip, drip coming from the area of the fitting in the bottom of the holding tank. If you guessed a crack in the tank right where the fitting is, you get the prize. :shock: The fitting is, of course at the very bottom of the tank. Its the one the macerator hose connects to. I guess the tank there is weak and the hose was putting enough pressure on it to cause the crack. I'm just thankful that this didn't happen (at least I didn't notice it) when we were on our three week trip down the inside passage.

OK, now that I'm finished whinning, does anyone have any idea what can be done to fix this. The tank can not be removed except in pieces. A new one can't be put in, unless there is such a thing as a collapsable tank. Can plastic be glued or welded? Getting access to this area is possible through the hatch, but Its not easy to see the bottom where the crack is, much less work on it.

Suggestions????
 
First, you want to empty and clean the tank--no matter what.

There are three ways (at least) of dealing with this. There is a plastic welding epoxy, which works fairly well. You often have to "Flame harden" the plastic first. This means passing a blow torch over the area--also the area needs to be dry. Do a Google search on "plastic tank repair". There was a specific product mentioned on a thread within the last few weeks.

Second is using glass cloth and thickened West systems epoxy. Rough up the area with 36 grit sand paper by hand. This gives some "Tooth" for the epoxy. Use Cabosol to thicken the epoxy. Put a layer of the epoxy on then the cloth then several more layers of the epoxy--put this well beyond the crack.

Third is to Heat weld the crack. J P Whitney and Eastwood both have a number of heat welding products for plastic tanks--and this is probably what I would go with--but you have to buy the "Gun" and appropiate rods.

Finally is to cut up the tank, and put in a bladder tank, or another option is to go with the tanks which are used in the newer boats--the Sea Land Travler marine head which has a built in holding tank--in some ways a better solution. It is a simpler head and uses fresh water, when necessary. Way down the line, is to cut the deck out and put in a new plastic tank..then put in a rim of wood, and refasten the deck.

Good luck--and wear good gloves!
 
It's only a 2005 boat - contact the factory and see if they can/will help. At the very least, they should learn about this problem so it isn't repeated.
 
You might try a patch kit available for an RV blackwater (poly) tank. They work well. I don't know if it would work in your situation, but might be worth considering. You should be able to pick up the kit at any well equipped RV supply store.

Casey
C-Dory Naknek
 
Joe, Roger, Casey, Sagebrush and especially Dr. Bob,
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I do intend to see if it will be covered by warranty.

I'm a little leary of trying the patch route because of where the crack is, right on the fitting. I'm lucky in that I knew I'd be doing the macerator and had pump and flushed the tank especially well this time prior to finding the leak. I would hate to try the patch, fill the tank and find in a month or two that the patch didn't hold when the tank was full! :roll:

I'm leaning toward changing to the Traveler toilet or possibly following Pat's lead and going with the Airhead. My concern with the Airhead is if it can handle full time use for 3-4 weeks at a time in a cool climate like the Northwest. I sure woul'nt want to end up with it being just like an outhouse on the boat.

Part of the reason I would change as well is the added storage space that then would be available with the holding tank removed.

Thanks for your help
Ron
 
Re: replacement toilet/tanks - I have the Sealand Traveler with the 9gallon tank upon which the bowl sits. Yes, it works well and is easy to clean, BUT considering the flush water volume, that 9 gallon tank gets full in very few uses! Many have put a valve on the flush water inlet to shut it down or off.

That unit is great if you can empty the tank frequently. Pat of Daydream has the Airhead and he's right up there in the Seattle area with you, and he likes his Airhead, I've heard.

Good luck,

John
 
drjohn71a":3j0xygln said:
Many have put a valve on the flush water inlet to shut it down or off.
Click to expand...

My wife is very suspicious of the AirHead so I am going to wait until we see Pat and Patty on their boat so she can examine it first hand and ask questions. Meanwhile, a valve modification like you describe might be very worthwhile, if I understood what it was for! :mrgreen: After the mod, when flushed, the waste drops down but no water comes in to flush -- is that correct?

Warren
 
yes, Warren. There is often enough liquid waste anyway. Right now, I have to shut the water pump off most of the time or I only get about a dozen uses on each tank!

John
 
drjohn71a":3rac3k7i said:
Right now, I have to shut the water pump off most of the time or I only get about a dozen uses on each tank!
Click to expand...

Sounds like a very worthwhile mod to undertake this winter. What kind of valve did you install, and where? I don't recall seeing pix of this in your album?

Thanks,
Warren
 
Yes, "simplify, simplify, simplify" - get a 25 with an Airhead Composting Marine Toilet!
Click to expand...

Pat,
I know you are "high" on the airhead toilet. Would you be so kind as to post a bit of a review of your success with this product.

1)ease of use.
2)odour? Inside and outside near the vent.
3)How do you empty it and how often?
4)Maintenance? Whats involved with the peat most, dessicant, "coffee filters" etc.
5)Size - does it fit well in the head of the 25?
6)Does it take some instruction on how to use for visitors on the boat?
7) Aesthetics - how does it look installed? Strange that I care how a toilet looks but........

Thanks
Ron
 
Ron,

I am sorry to hear of your problems with the remote holding tank, but that sems to be a rite of passage on many boats somewhere down the road. I've had to tear the flooring out of several boats over the years to remove leaking remotely plumbed tanks, so anything that can be kept right up there in the open - visible in the head compartment - is a great improvement, even if it is just a porta-potti.

I liked the Air-head concept that Pat has, but the factory says you have to pay for the Sealand head, even if you order an Air-head unit, so I went with the Sealand. The Sealand is great except that it fills rapidly. This winter that's going to be a problem after the pumpout station closes.

I think the principal on the Air-head is that the liquid waste drains to a front "gutter" which drains into a removable "pitcher-like" thing which you dump when full. When going #2, a peat/paper like "cup" is put into the #2 expected fallout area where the solid waste falls. This is dumped into the composting compartment. The peat/paper is to match the nitrogen content of the waste. As long as there is not too much liquid, my understanding is that there is little odor.

I think Pat added a Nicro fan or similar to the Airhead vent to aid in drying the compost compartment. I think he said he dumps the solids once or twice a year.

For me, for winter use, the Airhead would probably hold much more waste than the Sealand, since I won't be able to pump out the Sealand once it freezes here.

The Airhead does require dumping the urine pitcher, much like a Porta-Potti, but that is usually less objectional than dumping a Porta-Potty full of solid and liquid waste.

The Airhead site gives alot of info: http://www.airheadtoilet.com/

John
 
Ron on Meander":2fh5w4t8 said:
Yes, "simplify, simplify, simplify" - get a 25 with an Airhead Composting Marine Toilet!
Click to expand...

Pat,
I know you are "high" on the airhead toilet. Would you be so kind as to post a bit of a review of your success with this product.

1)ease of use.
2)odour? Inside and outside near the vent.
3)How do you empty it and how often?
4)Maintenance? Whats involved with the peat most, dessicant, "coffee filters" etc.
5)Size - does it fit well in the head of the 25?
6)Does it take some instruction on how to use for visitors on the boat?
7) Aesthetics - how does it look installed? Strange that I care how a toilet looks but........

Thanks
Ron
Click to expand...

Patty here. Pat will respond, of course, but I beat him to it.
Questions: 1)Very easy to use---pretty much like any toilet.
2) The solid container really doesn't have an odor. The urine is detectible when getting full but easily dumped. There is a fan constantly venting through the roof. If you stuck your nose up to the vent outside you would know it was a bathroom, but the fan does a good job of keeping the interior fairly odor-free. We also keep a can of Lysol spray or Glade handy.
3) The urine container is in front and is easily emptied. The solid container comes off with the removal of two bolts, we dump it in a black garbage sack, and we choose to bury it rather than let it sit for a few more months to decompose to fully usable compost. We have emptied it 3 times in just over 2 years. It handled 3 men for 1 week up to Alaska, 2 men and 1 woman for a week in Alaska, and 2 men for 2 weeks returning from Alaska---then we emptied it.
4) You seed the solid tank with peat moss and lay a coffee filter down when you use it (the paper helps with composting), and that's it. We keep a container of disinfective wipes in the bathroom to clean the outside like you would any toilet.
5) It fits perfectly in the space intended.
6) We remind guests to use the filter. We have a small lined gargage can for toilet paper. We don't put that in the toilet although directions don't say not to.
7) It looks like a normal toilet, I think. I don't think anyone would know it's not connected to pipes and hoses and pumps and holding tanks.
OK, Pat, pick up the slack.
 
Patty,
Thanks so much for the review! It seems you think the Airhead is great as well as Pat. Hope you had a great big boat cruise and sorry to have missed you when you were up in Vancouver. It would have been great to have been able to connect up.

John,
Thanks for the info on the Traveler. (and airhead) I checked out a 2007 CD 25 with the Traveler at a dealers today and it seems to be a much cleaner installation. The only thing I didn't care for is the macerator and Y-Valve is in the galley cabinet. Its probably totally phycological but the idea of the plumbing running past where we store our food is...well, lets just say somewhat unsettling.
 
Well, since we're all so close here, I'll explain how to get more "endurance" from the Sealand head... first of all, either turn off the water pump or put a ball-valve shut off in the fresh water line to the head. Really, you don't have to have water running through it all the time the gate is open. Now, when using the head, hold the flush petal down, allowing the pee and/or poop to drop straight down. Now, you can flush with water, but you really don't need much. If two people can't make it at least a week with that head, you are using too much water to flush. If you want to take it further for water conservation, put an old pop bottle full of water on a shelf in there and use that to flush... you ought to be able to get a half dozen flushes out of that bottle.

Each time after dumping or pumping out the tank, we put in some RV black tank chemical... it keeps down the odor and helps break down solids.

Regarding toilet paper... we use as little as necessary and put it in a zip-lock bag that gets used 'till full, then tossed. We don't flush it. Baby wipes are good to have, too.

This particular head is easy and as trouble-free as a porta-potty... well, in essence, it is pretty much a large-capacity porta-potty, except you don't carry the bottom part up the dock.

And, regarding Ron's concern about the macerator pump and hoses running through the galley storage... Joan absolutely agreed with that. Besides putting second clamps on all the connections, she wrapped the joints with plastic... if there ever were a problem, it would show up in the plastic before soiling that area.

Yes, a crappy topic, but everybody poops and pees... better to know how to deal with it to make life onboard less troublesome.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Since Jim mentioned Joan's wrapping the pipe connections, I ought to let you all know that those clamps on the drain/macerator hoses loosened up on my boat, even though they put some kind of white goop on the connections. I got some smelly, green dripping into the under galley cabinet!!!! AArrrgghh!

so good idea to tighten those babies up and maybe do that wrapping thing.

Although the Sealand integral tank is nice and clean, you still have problems with the plumbing. That is why I'm considering putting in an Air Head some day - when I grow up...

John
 
WOW... is it not amazing just how close we become as C-Brats?? Well, what did yall talk about today???

But...drives me to an in depth conversation between another C-Brat and I on a road trip, talking about room on a 25 foot boat, and how much true room we give up for showers and a head...

Now Dr. Bob counts real good and is always available to help us work our ways thru repairs that will some day present themselves to us all... Just like other things on this topic...sooner or later, things are going to happen.

But... looks like the fixes are in...butt, I mean but I want to add solution Number 4 to Bob's initial 3. A Pett head or similar. See new thread on Pett Heads... Wonder if Jimmy will write a song on this??? Can you just think of the words to this song at the next "Pett Head Convention.." :mrgreen:

Byrdman
 
I just wanted to add that the Loctite 3030 polyolefin bonder worked like a charm when the inlet fitting broke off my holding tank. I also glued up some scrap plastic just to test the stuff, and found the glue as strong as the parent material.
 
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