A scary tale of big waves and a small boat.

Just a thought on rough water. What is scary to one person may be totally acceptable to another. But it only has to be acceptable to the captain to continue the cruz. Never let others talk you into doing something you can’t handle.

I have told this story before but it illustrates my first point. Coast guard gets a call from a scared lady on the vhf that she needs rescue, the boat is going down etc..She has no idea where she is or what type of boat it is etc.. They ask where the captain is and she says " that a$$hole is in the fly bridge having lunch with his a$$hole friends....... Seems the boat was crossing a big tide rip and was getting a little bouncy and Nebraska sue was scared to death because the boat moved!!!
Now if she was the captain they should not have left the dock. Different people have different levels of comfort and the captain is the only one that matters, unless you are married.........
 
We are all of us just one bad decision away from a scary experience on the water.

Ironically, I am sitting out a head cold reading "Come Hell and High Water", a gift from my wife last Christmas. Subtitle is "Extraordinary Stories of Wreck, Terror, and Triumph on the Sea". The author used to work for Lloyd's of London, and drew on their records. The first wreck was in 1745, and on up to current times. Great reading when you are in a dry place.

A second thought. This spring I was talking with a woman who is an accomplished mountain climber and hiker. She introduced me to her concept of "nibbling". When she is afraid of doing something, she "nibbles" at it, doing a small amount and then building on that.
If it gets scarrier as she gets more experience, she can drop it. Usually the added experience tells her whether to go further or no, and if further, she has some built up foundation of knowlege. I liked that. It works well for water ventures.

Dave
 
Sea bugle- just read your note and could not resist replying. Anyone who has been boating for anytime should be able to relate perfectly. We mostly boat in the San Juans and Guld islands and sometimes I lie awake at night thinking back to some of the situations and ask myself what are we thinking. I guess we will always be learning and we had better have total respect for larger water. The longer I boat the more respect I have. Happy boating. Yahoo.
 
Interesting stories. Having crossed the Pacific in troopships twice to and from Korea in the early 50s, and managing to be caught in nasty storms each time, it cemented in my memory the awesome power of the ocean.When a ship about a 100 feet short of three football fields leaves you feeling like you are freefalling in an elevator and the twin screws come completely out of the water causing the entire ship to shudder and vibrate, any bravado harbored before the storm quickly leaves and fear does set in. My brother who had a career in the navy liked to say, "The sea is a cruel master."

Several years ago I picked up a copy of "Heavy Weather Guide", 2nd Edition, Naval Institute Press by Kotsch & Henderson. I recommend to anyone interested in real heavy weather realities.

I have been intriqued by just how big waves can become in both the ocean and inland waters. Any formulas available for calculating potential wave height? John
 
Call me stupid, though I would rather think of it as inexperienced. This is my first season in my own boat on the Chesapeake Bay, though I have been on boats of various sizes in other waters. I have read everything I can find on the dynamics of wind, waves, and current but none of it tells me what I am experiencing (I know why at least, so I guess that's a good thing).

On Choir Practice, we have taken water over the bow (and into the cabin - gotta remember to not only close the front window, but latch it), we've been chased by sudden following seas taller than engine, we've been caught in a sudden storm that NOAA belatedly announced had 50 knot gusts. But I don't know how tall the waves are in relation to the boat, I don't know if we've ever been in a situation where we should have put on life jackets, I don't know if we've just been lucky.

From what I have been told, the Chesapeake is a pretty benign body of water. So my guess is that we haven't really experienced anything like the stories here. I only trust the NOAA reports to a certain degree - we don't go out when they predict 2-4ft. or more, though we have learned that, at least on the bay, that really doesn't mean much for what the water will be later. And cargo ships seem to be more dangerous than NOAA predictions anyway.

Our very first trip out of our marina, less than a week after we bought our boat, we decided that going out Ramsey Lake was better than going under the bridge into the South River. It didn't occur to us that no one else did it. And of course the current was coming in, we had only the gps/chart plotter - no recent NOAA paper chart. We also didn't know the depth reader was set for 18" below the boat. For about 3 minutes, our depth reader went from 0 to 6' as the waves tried to keep us there and we tried to avoid grounding, being pushed into the sticks marking the shoal, and keeping forward motion while not turning sideways or taking water over the bow... We made it, but it was a hell of an introduction to owning a boat. Once we got out into the river, it was a little calmer but we decided the bay was too much for us to handle so we turned up river. In the next 20 minutes, we heard 3 distress calls, one from a small sailboat that had been swamped and people were in the water, hanging on to a buoy we had gone by not 10 minutes before. Immediately after that trip we bought paper charts, extra life preservers (including one for our dog), and vowed never to go out Ramsey Lake again. (The sailboat people were picked up as the CG made the announcement.)

So, how can I judge when I should be worried, when I should be scared, when I'm in over my head? How do I know how big the water is when I am in it? And most of all, how do I know when I'm going to do something stupid?

Any and all help appreciated. Please accept my apologies if this is not the correct space for these questions. I just figure that the people posting here have the experience that might keep me from making a more dangerous stupid mistake.

Courtenay
Choir Practice
 
I left New York in January, 1959 on a biiiiig troop ship (MSTS Gen. Patch) bound for Germany. Along the way we encountered the North Atlantic. 2500 seasick gi's detting very inebriated on paregoric. We bribed a couple of the sailors to let us look out on deck. All outer doors (?) were closed so nobody was permitted to go on deck. In getting our brief look outside, you could stand on deck and look UP at the waves. I have never been so mortally afraid in my life. I will never forget that picture in my mind and I will never fail to respect the power of the sea.
My second experience was in a wooden rental boat (my trusty 9.5 outboard for power? - didn't have enough money for a boat too). Fishing in the upper end of Mosquito Lagoon, Banana River Florida. The boat was very heavy, without about 3-4# of barnacles and gunk on the bottom. You couldn't have planed it with a 500hp motor. Wind came up and suddenly I had 6 footers in 3-4' of water. In each trough I could feel the motor dig into the bottom, wind was dead on in my face, I don't know how long it took to crawl back to the fish camp but when we got there, the plywood boat was leaking from every seam. Not anyone's fault but I'd paid attention to fishing rather than keeping a weather eye.
Next, the movie, "The Perfect Storm." Later I read the book and have re-read it several times since. Each time the fear comes and reminds me that I am pretty puny when it comes to the power of the sea.
:idea
 
I left New York in January, 1959 on a biiiiig troop ship (MSTS Gen. Patch) bound for Germany. Along the way we encountered the North Atlantic. 2500 seasick gi's detting very inebriated on paregoric. We bribed a couple of the sailors to let us look out on deck. All outer doors (?) were closed so nobody was permitted to go on deck. In getting our brief look outside, you could stand on deck and look UP at the waves. I have never been so mortally afraid in my life. I will never forget that picture in my mind and I will never fail to respect the power of the sea.
My second experience was in a wooden rental boat (my trusty 9.5 outboard for power? - didn't have enough money for a boat too). Fishing in the upper end of Mosquito Lagoon, Banana River Florida. The boat was very heavy, without about 3-4" of barnacles and gunk on the bottom. You couldn't have planed it with a 500hp motor. Wind came up and suddenly I had 6 footers in 3-4' of water. In each trough I could feel the motor dig into the bottom, wind was dead on in my face, I don't know how long it took to crawl back to the fish camp but when we got there, the plywood boat was leaking from every seam. Not anyone's fault but I'd paid attention to fishing rather than keeping a weather eye.
Next, the movie, "The Perfect Storm." Later I read the book and have re-read it several times since. Each time the fear comes and reminds me that I am pretty puny when it comes to the power of the sea.
:idea
 
With out trouble you would not be able to appreciate the good stuff. Some refer to it as Divine adversity. Bottom line is the boat took you back in and you learned something about handling the boat and emotions.
Few people lay in their death bed and wish the had less adventure in their life.

Chris
 
Deep Survival, Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why by Laurence Gonzales is a marvelous read for those interested in learning more about surviving disasters. The book delves into the experiences of those in survival situations - and clearly depicts the stages of perception that set the path toward survival or destruction. Especially interesting to me were the sections dealing with the brain's built-in responses to extreme stress.

In an 'earlier life' my geologic work took me into wilderness situations, often alone, so survival training was essential. Later, leading adult education groups into wilderness environments, survival skills were an important knowledge for our safety.

Yes, some basic skills are essential - but most important in survival, in my opinion, is mental attitude. Deep Survival is a good treatment of the subject.
 
Interesting thread, full of useful ideas and information.

There are several points I would like to make or reiterate so I'll jump right in:

(1) A lot of what's being discussed has to do with the mental attitude and thought process in the midst of ...aah, Stressful Moments. As has already been said: Fear is not fun, but it can be your Friend. It is one of the means we learn judgement. Panic, on the otherhand isn't very useful and will often make a bad situation Worse. DON'T panic (at least try NOT to Panic); but thinking very fast about your situation is permissable.

Back during my Alaska Life, one those "genuine Alaskan's" (he'd trapped for decades) told me: "...if you're on a winter backcountry trip, and something goes wrong - STOP and build a fire...it'll help." I thought that was interesting, and the more I thought about it the logic seems sound. No, you don't literally build-a-fire every time; but what he was saying was to stand back and give yourself a few moments to THINK about your situation. Blindly charging forward can often make a bad situation Worse.

(2) Don't get in over-your-head. Everybody has a learning curve; honor it. Learn, grow, enjoy the process. An old pilot saying is: "There are old pilots, and bold pilots; but there are no old, bold pilots." The saying probably applies to boating as well. Don't be herded, rushed, or cajoled into doing stuff you're not really ready-for. Let the other person be the glory hound if they must, and learn from his/her mistakes. If someone is so stupid as to call you a Pussy, just recognize them for what they are, and let it go.

(3) Know your equipment, how it's maintained, and where it's stored. Challenging situations often occur during bad wx or nighttime. Little things like knowing EXACTLY where you keep the flashlight can be priceless. Are those PFD's really serviceable and reachable? Just for grins, next time you're anchored-out and about to go to bed, try securing most of the loose stuff (tea pot, books, foodstuffs, etc). If the wx changes I can guarantee it'll be REAL dark when you have to relocate. Having all that loose stuff put away (and not flying around) may be helpful. Oh yea, when it was still light did you even consider a backup plan to your anchoring location? Knowing where you might bailout-to beforehand can be useful.

(4) Have you given any thought to how you might help another boat in an emergency situation, or will you just go banging-in and maybe make it worse? Again, know your limitations and the limitations of your equipment; the Coasties don't need MORE rescue stat's. How would you actually get a large or hypothermic person aboard? Are you a good enough boat handler to even approach a person in distress without making the situation worse? Think about it; there are things you CAN do, and several things you probably can't do. Admit it.

Ok, enough lecturing. Time to read what other's have to say.

Best,
Casey
 
Casey, if you would have kept writing, I would have kept reading. All good points well made.

Agree with Bill on Deep Survival being a very good read also with mental attitude being most important in survival situations.

Jay
 
Casey":tt282u2b said:
Know your equipment, how it's maintained, and where it's stored. Challenging situations often occur during bad wx or nighttime. Little things like knowing EXACTLY where you keep the flashlight can be priceless. Are those PFD's really serviceable and reachable?
Casey
Click to expand...

Excellent advice Casey. There are a number of firefighters that are fellow C-Brats and I'll guarantee that when each of them begin their shift they go through the apparatus that they will be responding on and verify that every piece of equipment they have is where it is suppose to be, all the air bottles are filled, air packs are ready, vehicles are filled with fuel etc. When checking the medic unit at the beginning of the shift all of the kits and drawers in the unit are checked for the proper inventory of medications, equipment is in its' rightful locations on the shelves etc. etc. All of this is done so, in an "emergency situation" (which we often see), we can lay our hands on what we need immediately and without hesitation.

Maintaining our personal watercraft in the same manner, will certainly help keep the edge off in an emergent situation. (A poignant example would be being caught out in rough weather and having to worry if you have enough fuel in your tanks to reach protected waters, because you've had to alter course).
 
I had an enlightening experience a few weeks ago in my 16' Angler. We were out fishing off the south end of Orcas island and the waves started to build. I decided to head back to bellingham because it was suppose to get worse. We decided to head around north tip of lummi and through hales passage.

The wind started to blow a steady 30mph gusting up to the high 30's and the waves got big fast. The first thing I started to notice that was going downwind in the 16' in big waves is scary, the boat starts surfing and the back end wants to come around one way or another, so you have to give it throttle and bury your nose into the bottom of the next swell. when the nose buries the boat tends to get pushed one direction or another, but i got use to it.

Coming across bellingham bay the waves got really big, breaking of the windows almost every wave. but i worked my way across the bay nosing upwind into the waves and then working my way east through the troughs. i was much more comfortable with this and felt in control the whole time even though it was like going straight down a cliff on the backside of the waves.

overall it was nice to see what kind of weather the boat could handle but i wouldn't describe it as enjoyable boating conditions.
 
You are experiencing bow steering if the boat is trying to pull you one way or the other. This is a dangerous situation as the boat could broach if the bow steering is severe enough and could definitely throw you around. Try trimming the bow up higher in a following sea and this will tame down and the boat will track true.
 
One important thing to remember about trimming your boat. If you have to slow down, foils or tabs will become ineffective. And of course, it's just when trim becomes most critical, e.g., in very rough following seas, that you may have to slow down the most.

I always try to trim the boat initially at rest as best I can. I also like to have some of my gear or supplies in easily movable packages so that I can trim the boat with weight distribution rather than engine tilt (or trim tabs, if I had them).

You really, really do not want your bow down in big following seas.
 
"Good judgement is a result of experience. Most experience is a result of bad judgement". I am very much a rookie boater, so it is very worthwhile to learn from other's experience on this forum.
 
yeah, i had the bow trimmed up (i have one of the big plates/dolphin fin things on my suzuki) but at slow speeds it didn't seem to do anything. i found that if i went full throttle it up before nosing into the next wave it would react a little better. but downwind in a 16 c-dory in big seas is not fun.
 
dahkota said:
"I don't know if we've ever been in a situation where we should have put on life jackets, I don't know if we've just been lucky."
Click to expand...

If you have been on the dock or out in the boat you should have put on a PFD. Wearing personal floatation does not require big waves, storm warnings or permission from NOAA. It is just prudent boating.

The C-Dory will handle water that will make most folks uncomfortable. Study, knowledge and practice will help to adjust and accomplish safer travels in bigger water. Common sense, used with good reason and practiced judgement will keep you safe. Adequate prep and planning are integral. Good judgment and experience come with time.

If you make the right decisions often enough, and don't make bad ones too serious or too often, you can live to claim you are experienced. The more and better experiences you have, the more likely you are to continue the same.

Stay safe,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
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