A couple of datapoints on micro-kickers

[Ray]

I mounted an auxiliary outboard bracket to the stern of my 25. It is a Panther 55-0022 adjustable mount.

Here is what the bracket looks like in the fully up position.






Here is the fully down position.




Both positions clear the trim tab by a wide margin.

I added a cleat as a security tie-back and it also helps with the wobbly mount when underway.




Now, before anyone lashes out and tells me how stupid it is to have a tiny outboard as a backup motor, this mount is PRIMARILY for stowage of the dinghy motor. It just HAPPENS to be that the lowering bracket will allow a short-shaft to operate in calm conditions.

I had the opportunity over the past couple of weeks to mount a Mercury 3.5hp four stroke (the photos above) and a Honda 2hp four stroke on the mount. I ran each of them just to see. In perfectly calm conditions, with no wind or current, and a moderately-loaded boat, I found the following:

Merc 3.5 - 1/2throttle - boat speed 2.9mph
Merc 3.5 - WOT - boat speed 3.4mph

Honda 2 - 1/2 throttle - boat speed 1.7mph
Honda 2 - WOT - boat speed 2.1mph

In all cases, the main motor Honda 150 was able to steer the boat very well (considering) with the tiny outboards locked dead-ahead.

In each case, the motor is mounted right next to my aux fuel port http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=20814 so that it's tank can easily be topped off from the main fuel tank on the 25.

Just a couple of data points for those interested.

Ray

 

[Aurelia]

Looks and sounds good. Glad to see more testing results and it looks like that 3.5 pushes your 25 significantly better than the 2hp unit. I would have guessed them to be closer in results. We also have a dinghy/kicker motor mounted on the same side and we also tie it forward for added stability. I get to cheat and use part of our cockpit canvas frame already in place but would have added a cleat for the purpose as you did. If our current electric Torqeedo experiment ever goes sideways, I will be doing the same as you with a short shaft gas motor (likely a 2.5).

Greg

 

[blackfish]

Just curious what are the two white tubes in the splash well ?
Dave

 

[thataway]

We have used the 3.5 HP 2 stroke Merc (which we currently have) and the 2.5 HP Suzuki 4 stroke on the 25. Our 2.5 hp Suzuki was closer to what the Merc did.

With the 3.5 hp 2 stroke Merc. we get 3.2 knots at 1/2 throttle on the C Dory 22, and about 3.8 knots at full throttle. Only sightly more speed in the 22, than on the 25.

Thanks for posting! My feeling is that the 3.5 hp is enough to get one into some safe setting if the main motor fails. It is not going to get you home at 8 knots…or even make more than a minimal way into wind and chop, but it does give steerage way, and maneuverability.

 

[Sunbeam]

Just curious what are the two white tubes in the splash well ?
Dave

Since I'm posting anyway, I'm going to guess those are for stowage of 1# disposable propane cylinders.

I'm glad you started the thread - thanks for the data points. It's a subject I've been interested in. As I've mentioned before, my boat came with a really nice, deluxo kicker (an essentially new Honda 8D electric start), but it was kind of wasted on me, as I only plan to use a kicker to "get off the road" if/when my main has an issue. I'm sure it also contributed to my starboard list (weighed 109# dry), and it was difficult for me to lean out over the splashwell to lift/lower. Not that any of the aforementioned issues would have been deal breakers if I really *used* the engine regularly, such as for fishing.

So I had been thinking of a 2-4 hp kicker instead.

Well, someone happened along for whom the Honda was perfect, and he had a small engine for (partial) trade, so now my boat is sporting a mid-90's Mercury 5hp, 2-stroke, long shaft kicker. 45# soaking wet It has an integral tank but can also use an external. I determined that I could shut off the internal tank and then still drain the carb, so my plan is to do that for "middling" amounts of time between trips. I'll run with the internal tank full, and some 2-cycle oil. Thinking I'll do something like Ray did and make the port where my Honda used to hook up to the fuel/water separator into a "fuel supply" that I can add to the Mercury if necessary (along with oil).

This wasn't necessarily my dream engine, but it's in really nice shape (previous owner who really takes care of his things), and showed up looking for a home So I'm going to give it a try - if nothing else it will give me some data points. I can't wait to see what effect "losing" 65+# from the starboard transom will have. Another plus is that it's light enough for me to horse around, so I'll also be able to sea trial with no kicker, just to see what it is like (trim-wise).

I still have to play around with the mount/pads (I have a Mini Jacker); right now I have to have it on the furthest up angle/hole to clear the trim tabs. I think I can improve on that. I like the cleat idea! This engine being a bit more "primitive," I'm going to have to figure out how to support it, etc. while trailering and while tilted up underway. Man but that shaft looks LONG being so skinny!

Okay, enough about my new-to-me motor - but I've just gotten a few great ideas from this thread that are going to come in handy -- very timely -- and depending on how it goes, I may change to a smaller engine (such as maybe a Tohatsu 3.5hp 4-stroke?). First I have to experiment

Thanks, Ray :thup
Sunbeam

 

[texasair]

Sunbeam,

I also run the Merc 2 stroke 5Hp (short shaft) on a 22. Has been a very dependable motor.


I like the aux fuel port, I carry enough 2 stroke oil to treat one of my fuel tanks.

In an emergency situation if have to go a long distance, I can treat one tank and use a the snap on fuel line off of the main motor to go for hours.

I have a removable steering rod that connects to the main motor. This enables me to tilt the main motor and gets me about 1/2 mph more speed.

You should be pleased with the motor.

 

[Sunbeam]

Sunbeam,

I also run the Merc 2 stroke 5Hp (short shaft) on a 22. Has been a very dependable motor.

Thanks for chiming in - good to hear of your experience with the same engine :thup

You know, now that I see the engine on the boat (with the Honda it was so big and bulky that you couldn't really "see" things as well), I almost think a short shaft would be better (and here I didn't buy several engines because they were short shafts but instead looked for the more-elusive long shaft). The Mini Jacker lifts the engine by a couple of inches already, and I think 3" more wouldn't be a problem (and might even be better). Oh well, I know the long shaft will work, and I can experiment and always change.

I like the aux fuel port, I carry enough 2 stroke oil to treat one of my fuel tanks.

In an emergency situation if have to go a long distance, I can treat one tank and use a the snap on fuel line off of the main motor to go for hours.

Now why didn't I think of that?! I was just poking around online and trying to figure out a good way to hook up a hose to one of the spare ports on my fuel/water separator, but that still would have been more complicated (with the mixing, etc.). But since this engine is specifically for times when I need it (and the main is having a problem) of course it makes perfect sense just to treat one of my main tanks (at that time) and run on that. Great idea! (In the meantime, or for shorter jaunts, I have the internal 2.5 liter tank.)

You just saved me kludging up some sort of hose/shut off valve system, and instead I will just get a hose that has the Mercury clip on one end, and a quick release Honda on the other end (I have a quick release Honda fitting on one port of my fuel/water separator).

I have a removable steering rod that connects to the main motor. This enables me to tilt the main motor and gets me about 1/2 mph more speed.

I hadn't thought of the speed advantage (and I never had a connector rod because with the Honda on starboard side the tiller arm got in the way), so was just planning on steering with the main or back in the cockpit; but now I think now I'll try to fit one. What type of connector are you using, if you remember?

Ray: Sorry if we are dragging your thread too far off topic, but perhaps this is close enough to still be of use on the general topic (small kickers with internal tanks).

 

[Grazer]

Great to hear about the Mercury 3.5 h.p. pushing your 25 like that. I have the same motor and have been able to move upstream in the Yukon River, granted very slowly, on the back of the 22. I also have a 9.9 Tohatsu and have been contemplating selling it and just using the 3.5. Cheaper, lighter and less maintenance (1 kicker vs two). Is there any reasons that I should contemplate as to whether or not I should keep the 9.9, other than the obvious of being able to travelling faster should the main ever fail?

Thanks,
Grazer

 

[Ray]

Just curious what are the two white tubes in the splash well ?
Dave

Since I'm posting anyway, I'm going to guess those are for stowage of 1# disposable propane cylinders.

Right you are, Sunbeam! Propane and butane in this case. I just uploaded a project post here: http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?p=264370#264370

Thanks (sort of) - you are inspiring me to keep putting these projects up (I hope folks aren't getting annoyed with them! ) - I have about 15 more separate projects' worth of pictures to upload and comment on.

Best regards,
Ray

 

[Sunbeam]

Thanks (sort of) - you are inspiring me to keep putting these projects up (I hope folks aren't getting annoyed with them! ) - I have about 15 more separate projects' worth of pictures to upload and comment on.

Best regards,
Ray

I say "bring them on!" I like to see the ideas you come up with an how you implement them (whether or not they are something that applies to me). All the photos make it fun to read (and I appreciate the effort to add them).

If I do see a thread I'm not interested in, I just pass it by.

 

[texasair]

I believe the steering rod is "Panther brand", but several companies make them.

It comes straight with a bunch of thread to adjust the length.
Mine worked out without bending it, but the rod can be bent to fit your application.

The rod comes with 2 fittings that look like tiny trailer hitch balls.
Mount one on the main and one on the kicker. They are small and don't get in the way and most people leave the balls mounted permanently.

The rod has a quick snap on each end that snaps onto the ball to connect the kicker to the main. Takes about 30 seconds to connect.
I keep the rod stored until I need it. If I need the kicker quickly to avert disaster I just sit on the transom and steer it manually. Connect the steering rod later.

 

[Sunbeam]

Thanks, Texasair,

After reading your excellent idea about hooking up to the main tank (if necessary in a "get home" situation where the internal tank is not enough), I ordered a complete Honda hose plus a Mercury engine-end clip. Reason I got a Honda hose is that I already have a Honda male quick release on the extra port on the fuel water separator, so this way the new hose will snap on and off at will. I'll put the Mercury clip on the engine end, then tuck it away for "just in case" along with a couple of quarts of 2-cycle oil. Appreciate the tips on the tie bar as well. And of course thanks to Ray for providing this thread for discussion :thup