A 25 with an Armstrong Bracket

R

Ron on Meander

New member
I noticed a C-Dory 25 with an Armstrong Bracket for sale on Yacht World http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...789139/Bayfield/WI/United-States#.VPu1eWR4r7A. Does anyone know anything about this boat. I have always wondered how a C-Dory would do with a bracket like this. The Rosborough 246 have them and they have a somewhat similar hull to the C-Dory. A bit more of deadrise and a keel but similar. What do you think, would a bracket be a positive addition on a 25 or negative?
Cheers
Ron
 
That is an interesting question Ron. The advantage on the Tom Cat is a considerably larger cockpit. However in this boat, there is an ice chest in the splash well, and apparently no higher transom--unless I am missing something. Also there is no actual floatation in the bracket (again hard to be sure, looking at the photo). (They say "designed to provide neutral buoyancy.) Armstrong makes a very good bracket. The Rosborough 246 does gain cockpit room with the bracket--and it has a more round chine. I have seen both narrow and full transom brackets on the Rosborough 246.

There is a 150 plus a 20 back 2 feet further aft. This equates to more leverage on the transom, and perhaps different handling characteristics. The motor should be mounted a couple of inches higher. I do see a hydrofoil (Permitrim)--I consider this a plus in any C Dory. But wonder if this person put it on because of handling. The comment is made:" The mount was also scalloped for hydrodynamic efficiency and stability in a following sea. " I am not familiar with this technique.

My suggestion is that I don't see a lot of advantage, but it does give a nice big swim step, and diving ladder.
 
I think Bob is right on with his assessment.

I'd personally prefer a full enclosed bracket with flotation, but wonder how either one would affect the handling characteristics of the boat, particularly in large seas, and especially in large following seas.

I would really want to test this boat out along with someone who was very familiar with how the original CD-25 handles to evaluate the adaptation out.

Here are the two photos of the bracket in order to facilitate this discussion:

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Joe. :teeth :thup
 

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Thanks for posting the pictures Joe. According to the broker write up the boat is supposed to perform "better" than stock. I am quite sceptical of that comment, which is why I was hoping someone here might actually know the boat.
Like you Bob, I can't see the benefit of the bracket unless you also remove the splash well and close in the transom notch. I really like how the bracket works on the Rosborough so I have often wondered if one could be added to Meander without effecting the overall performance too much. If I ever considered doing it, I would remove the splash well and fill in the notch. The added cockpit space would be great to have.
I wonder how the the extra weight further back would affect the performance. Would it cause the boat to porpoise, ride bow high and how would it effect the fuel burn. Of course the cost of doing it would probably just make it more sense to just buy a bigger boat! :shock:
 
Very interesting post Ron.
I too am always trying to create more space in our boat. That would give another couple of feet if the splashwell were eliminated but......wouldn't you have to have a longer trailer to support that weight hanging out there?
Sounds to me like the expenses would far out weigh the benefits.
Cheers,
Tom
 
Ron on Meander":11xuh5ap said:
<much deleted>

" Of course the cost of doing it would probably just make it more sense to just buy a bigger boat! :shock:"
Click to expand...

BINGO! :lol: :lol: :lol:

And your resale value would probably be higher that a modified boat, too!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
This boat was in the slip next to me in Bayfield WI for several seasons a few years ago. I believe the bracket does have flotation. The owner did claim better performance, but I have never been out on it, or seen it out on the water, so I can't comment on his claim.
Steve
 
Tom
The added cockpit space would be most of the reason for me to even consider this. The other would be easier access to the dingy for us and our dog. The trailering and loading would be another issue to figure out. Probably no different than one of the 27 ft C-Dory's.
Joe,
I think the cost is the real deal breaker. If I did this to Meander the only time she would be up for sale would be as an estate sale and then I probably wouldn't care how much she was worth. :lol:
Steve
Interesting that he did claim better performance. Sure would be nice to talk to someone who had been out in the boat.
 
Armstrong does make a good bracket and they do offer numerous advantages. And yes if I was ordering a new Rosborough 246 or 22 Sea Skiff, I would consider the $2,000. bracket option money well spent.

BUT,,, I would never alter a Cdory to add one.

First of all, some of their advantages are not necessary or even wanted on a Cdory - such as increased speed.

Secondly some of their advantages such as better low speed maneuvering due to a change in steering geometry(pivot point) are offset by disadvantages - such as prop ventilation(in large seas or high speed turns).

Sometimes finding the engine height sweet spot can be a problem and may require using a jack plate.

I would not add a bracket to a boat unless the manufacturer approved it or it had been tested by numerous other owners. I would also have it installed by a professional who was familiar with their installation. The design must also be boat specific - for example will it be the type that extends your hull?

Improper installation can lead to catastrophic transom damage. The top of the bracket requires numerous through bolts to support the weight. These bolts require substantial backing plates and must be properly sealed to prevent water intrusion into the core. Any boat with a soft transom core such as foam must have the holes overdrilled and reinforced with an insert to prevent the torque of the tightened bolts from crushing the core.

Advantages? Yes

Disadvantages? Yes

On a Cdory? Not IMHO

Regards, Rob
 
As for trailering--since the bracket is not full hull depth (at least as I can see), you would use a "normal" C Dory 25 trailer, There would be more leveraged on the transom. You could make a modified "Transom Saver"--I have used one of these on the Caracal, !8 CC. It does work as advertised.
Newboatpics007.jpg

One issue, might be that the bracket, would interfere with the geometry of the "Transom Saver" Putting an extension of the trailer frame has other disadvantages.
 
This boat is in the same marina I keep my boat (Washburn) I always wondered if C-dory made a one-off 25ET (it's the only one I've ever seen, even in pictures)

I don't know much about it, other than it looks really clean in person. Though it's not the same boat, my Hewescraft 22 is an extended transom, and it makes the boat feel bigger than 22 feet.

I'll be up in Washburn this Friday. If it's parked out where a lot of other boats winter over, I can take some pictures of close up spots (outside of course)
 
Miles & Miles
That would be really cool if you have a chance to get so additional pics. Like you I have not seen another 25 with a bracket even in pictures. Seems interesting though. How do you like the bracket on your Hewes?
 
Robert H. Wilkinson said:
On a Cdory? Not IMHO, quote]

Is it OK if I argue with myself on this forum? :lol: Just wanted to say that I have been following the work Travis has been doing refitting the Great Republic. Great work on a beautiful boat, by the way. On that Cdory the bracket was a logical choice. It did have a full transom to start with though.

As for the CD25 in this thread - like Joe said, I would love to hear the opinion of anyone who is familiar with a stock Cd25 comparing it to this one with the bracket.

Regards, Rob
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Ron on Meander":2igghv4i said:
Miles & Miles
That would be really cool if you have a chance to get so additional pics. Like you I have not seen another 25 with a bracket even in pictures. Seems interesting though. How do you like the bracket on your Hewes?
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No problem. What would you like me to focus in on? I THINK it's still in the same parking spot I saw it a few months ago. The weather has been great here.

Hewes: When it's in the water, I love it. When towing it for any distance, can be stressful. The CD22 is such an easy boat to manage. The Hewescraft PC22ET weighs 6800 #'s (package) and is wider, so I really have to pay a lot of attention back there. It has the Yamaha F150, and it's a great, reliable motor with superb MPG's…but a 225 or 250 should be back there. I know, first world problems :)

I'll post those pics early next week.
 
I drove 210 miles from the twin cities to see this boat last Tuesday. Very clean and nice boat, well outfitted. The bracket was a big plus in my book. I have kids that like to swim off the back of our current boat, and it would have been great for boarding the inflatable and strapping my honda eu2000i out there. I will admit, it was a little awkward having to step through the motor well to get into the cockpit. Sort of an unfinished feel to it. If you look carefully in the pics above, you can see that the bracket is indeed full hull depth, and it has been painted with bottom paint, continuing the same lines from the hull.

I actually put in an offer on this boat, but when the seller received the offer from the broker, apparently he suddenly decided not to sell the boat, and will be removing the listing. Very disappointing for us as we really liked the boat.... But perhaps it's for the best considering some of the comments here about the bracket. The search continues...
 
mathias999us":1jp1ac1u said:
I should also add that the boat is currently in indoor storage.
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Thanks for the follow up.

Did you take any photos of the bracket by any chance? I am interested the ad comments:

The mount was also scalloped for hydrodynamic efficiency and stability in a following sea….The aft cockpit is self-bailing and has a great deal more useable space over the production model.
Click to expand...

What was the scalloping, and was the splash well cut down--to give a larger cockpit? The standard boats do very well in a following sea--not sure why the extension would give better performance…

He was asking a fair price for a 2006 which is prettily well equipped. [/quote]
 
Hi Bob,

Unfortunately I did not take any pics. I'm not sure quite what was meant by "scalloped". The underside of the bracket was flush with the underside of the boat where it met the boat at the bottom of the transom. Moving back from there it tapered upwards to a shallower depth and gradually introduced some deadrise. If you look very carefully in the second pic in this thread, you can see the deadrise. This transition from the flat underside of the boat to a v shaped bottom at the end of the bracket resulted in two halves of the underside of the bracket that were comprised of compound surfaces. Perhaps this is what "scalloped" meant...

Mathias
 
mathias999us, Interesting post, and thanks for sharing it. Sorry the trip didn't result in a new to you boat however, from the transom forward, you got to see a really nice clean 25. There are more out there, so don't give up hope. One of the commonalities in the C-Dory family is that sometimes we don't find our boat even in the next county. The advantage, is that when we find our boat, ti is always worth the trip :wink:

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Hi Harvey - thanks. Yeah, I'll keep shopping around - seems like they pop up here and there. I'm looking for something pretty specific and this boat checked all the boxes. If not this year, then next.

Yes, the bright side is I finally got to see one. I've had my eye on a C-Dory for at least 5 years now, and I'm finally getting to the point where I might be able to get one. This is the first one I've seen, and after looking at it, I want one more than ever now.

I say to my wife, and I mean this in the most positive light, that the C-Dory is the ultimate compromise in a trailerable motor cruiser. There's really nothing else out there quite like it in terms of features, seaworthiness, trailerability, and efficiency.
 
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