4WD for towing?

J

johnr

New member
Hello,

I have an older C-Dory, 22 classic, so not that heavy, but too heavy to tow with my Honda Element (unless anybody wants to tell me otherwise!). Anyway I'm thinking about buying a older pick-up truck for local towing and launching...probably a Ford F-150...something around that size (unless someone wants to tell me otherwise). My question, is a 4WD something I should aim for, or would a 2WD suffice? We have a moderately high tidal range in my locale and the launch sites can be kind of steep, but nothing ridiculous.

Thoughts? I'm clueless about this and have little experience towing boats with personal vehicles.

johnr
 
Personally, I prefer 4 W/D and use it frequently on the ramps. Especially, at really low PNW tides. Some of the local ramps are very slippery & steep. Can't tell you how many times the rear tires began slipping, even when I'm easy on the pedal. One switch into 4 low and voila.
 
This post brought a smile to my face. I recall towing my 16ft plywood boat with a 35 horse Evinrude with a '59 Ford car to the Edmonds boat launch from Bothell. The car had a straight 6 and "3 on the tree." It had one side mirror attached to the drivers side door. The bumpers were metal so I could attach the clamp on trailer hitch. The ramps were slippery at times, but I don't recall ever having any trouble getting in or out. But I recall others did. One car I remember was halfway in the water while trying to get his boat out. Today, I can't envision not having 4WD.
 
Although the current Yukon XL is the first true 4 x 4 I have owned (the Honda Pilot also had 4 wh drive, but not a primary tow vehicle), I have been towing boat trailers for over 50 years with a rear wheel drive.

The issue with what you propose is that the pick up truck is very light in the rear, and you do launch in areas with a fairly good tidal range, for those two reasons I would go with 4 x 4. We did launch both a 25 up in that area a number of times with a 2 wh dr Ford Excursion Diesel.

I prefer a large SUV (which is on a pickup frame) for towing over the pickup. The reason is that there is more weight in the rear of the SUV, and the SUV is a much better riding vehicle. I had a chance to ride in a chevy pickup the same year as my Yukon, and the Yukon (with heavy duty towing package) was a much more comfortable ride.

You will get a little less gas mileage with 4 x 4. Diesel, especially the Ford 7.3 is an excellent engine and will get better mileage.
 
I think that you will do just fine with rear wheel drive pickup. I have towed my CD 22 all over dodge in Alaska and I have never put anything in 4 wheel drive except when launching the boat in the ice and snow. I even tow it and launch it with my Winnie 25 foot class "C" without issues. Yeah the launches can be steep, but there is generally a pretty good line that has good enough traction to get up just fine.
 
That class C Winnie has a lot of weight on the rear wheels! I have launched the C Dory 25 with the 30 foot Class A on a steep ramp at low tide, with no problems, but with big duals and a lot of weight on them, I would expect good traction.
 
We use to laugh at ourselves and say, "Four wheel drive just gets you in trouble further out." Having said that, with tongue-in-cheek, it's nice to have. It can keep you out of trouble and, at times, can be used to help others.

The question to ask, "Is it worth the extra maintenance and expense?"

I prefer to have it. :)
 
In perfect world you don't Need four wheel drive but when things take a turn for the worst it's nice to have. I have seen my share of two wheel drives clogging up launch ramps. Four wheel drive offers better resale value. You blown this much dough so far might as well go for broke. Sooner or later there will be ramp that will warrant four wheel drive. We just launched five boats in Canada the one two wheel truck drive had to get towed out. Don't be a victim!
D.D.
 
I agree with most of the replies. You do not necessarily need 4x4 but it sure is nice.
I think that the automatic transmission is working very hard when pulling up from a steep ramp. To mitigate this I put my pickup in 4WD-LOW RANGE and there is so much low end torque that the truck just walks up the ramp with no, or little, throttle and no torque converter slipage. It also ensures positive traction on questionable surfaces.
I have owned 4x4 vehicles for 30 years.......before that don't know how many times I wished that I had one.

Cheers, :beer
Tom
 
I just got home from launching at Ventura, Ca to go to Santa Cruz Island.

When I launched the boat at high tyde, I noticed that I needed to hold onto the cable to keep from sliding on the green slippery stuff. This was a first for me. Launched Journey On, parked the truck and thought "we'll be hauling out at low tyde." Ventura has smooth ramps, by the way. And Oxnard ramps are closed for repair.

Well, 6 days later, it was dead low when we returned to the ramp. I picked the least green ramp available. The better ramps were blocked by guys either fixing their trailer or fixing their motor. Backed the trailer in, set the parking brake with the trans in park and the truck slid backwards. I finally got out of there and tried a better (I hoped) ramp, leaving the real wheels on clean cement and accepting the fact that I'd have a long winch to get the boat out. And I did. Judy stuck the trans in 3rd, left a little brake on and out we came. Thank goodness for roller trailers.

The guy next to me wasn't so fortunate. He couldn't get out with his boat, took the boat off and still couldn't get out. Another boater pulled him out and then got the boat out. Hallelujah!

So here's my thoughts. After 40 years of launching at ramps, I've been towed out once; a guy was right there and did it for free. Just needed a small assist,since the Long Beach ramp was covered with sand (and still is). And that was in the 80's.

A 1/2 ton truck will tow that 22 just fine. I'd vote for a V-8 if you're going far. And I don't recommend 4X4. Something else to haul around and maintain. Every 30 years you'll have to wait for high tyde to haul out or use a little common sense. Or you can get a roller trailer and winch the boat on.

And lastly, it's 186 mile from Valley Center to Ventura and 186 miles back. All just chock full of stop and go traffic. LA is crowded and everybody's on the freeway. I'm getting too old for that.

A tired Boris
 
I've mostly had 2WD vehicles and, for the most part, gotten by fine, but my latest vehicle, a Dodge Durango, has a full 4WD (not "all-wheel"), low range, and a full-sized 360 cu. in. V8. (but not a "big block" 450+).

Will not go back. Much more positive and safe. Why worry?

Works like a tractor, even on steep, sand covered, or algae covered, ramps.

In low range, the 4WD will pull my 8600 lb Sea Ray and triple axle trailer (equivalent to a CD-25 or better) up any ramp I'm crazy enough to try.

And yes, Boris, the all roller trailer is a bit more complex, but will launch and retrieve in a much greater variety of situations than a bunk trailer. Like it!

Don't love the 14 mpg around town, or 11 mpg with a CD-22 gas mileage, but that's why we have several other vehicles.

If I were going to make a decision and planned to be towing boats for the next 5-15 years, I'd definitely get a horse to tow the wagon, not a pony, so to speak.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Thanks for the advice everybody. To clarify, right now, I'm not looking for something to tow my boat halfway across the nation (nor do I have the money for that right now!). I live less than a mile from a boat launch that looks out onto the San Juans, so I'm just looking for a very used "work truck" to get me in and out of the water locally. I was thinking truck rather than SUV because we could also use the truck to haul trash/leaves/wood, etc...all the stuff that you would typically use a beater truck for.

From the discussions here, it seems like I could go either way with regards to 4WD or not. I lean towards 4WD but, as I shop around, maybe I'll let the condition of the truck and the price be the thing that closes the deal.
 
I understand that 4-wheel drive gives a sense of security that allows one to conquer the world. I also understand that my thoughts on not getting 4-wheel drive will be rebutted. In addition, I don't have trouble with anybody's 4-wheel drive, I just thing it's superfluous for launching a boat on a cement or gravel ramp.

I spent 50 years out in the desert and saw a lot of 4-wheelers. They worked well and their owners had a lot of fun, while I stuck to 1-wheel drive. I also learned that the thrill of 4-wheel drive could get you in some predicaments that cause trouble. Such as all 4 wheels dug in, just floor it and see the sand fly. Or going up a hill and flipping.

Certainly the desert and launch ramps are not the same, except for the feeling they give the drivers. I've launched at ramps from Los Angeles Bay in Baja California to Spanish, Ontario, Canada. All with 2 wheel drive. And some of those ramps were truly afterthoughts. But I never left a boat or truck behind. As I described above, one has to use common sense, either with 4-wheel or 2-wheel.

If a person is trying to get a used vehicle for a short trip to and fro and one finds a good 4-wheeler, buy it. If one wants to buy a new truck for longer trips, IN MY OPINION, the extra cost, weight and maintenance aren't worth it. And I've made it stick.

So if you're on a sandy or green slippery launch ramp and for the first time or even for the 100th time, think before you jam it.

Boris
 
Boris,
Do you cary chocks for the wheels? I carry them; both plastic and steel. The steel ones have a sharp edge which digs into the ramp.

Would have that kept your truck from sliding backward?
 
In my part of the world I have used 4-WD on cold days as icing on the ramp can be problematic. Sometimes the ramps have ice near the waters edge and keeping the front tires on dry concrete is the difference between easy and a big PIA. Most local launches are doable in 2wd 95% of the time but on occasions the 4-WD gets engaged.

I do really like how a big V-8 pulls a 22' vrs. a V-6 grunting out from a boat launch. So the notion of a full size truck dedicated to pulling a 22' to and from the launch a few miles is reasonable to me. A 4-WD truck is more versatile to me in my climate as it is used on some pretty gnarly logging roads for hunting and pulling trailers from snow drifts.

I would be curious to see what others use to launch at your local ramp.

Cheers
Chris
 
All wheel drive (60% of power go to front wheels and 40% to rear wheels) works fine on slippery ramps with my Honda Ridgeline-drivetrain also allows for 4 wheel drive to be manually set- never had to use 4 wheel drive on a ramp to pull out my 22.

Ken
 
thataway":3tma7ebm said:
That class C Winnie has a lot of weight on the rear wheels! I have launched the C Dory 25 with the 30 foot Class A on a steep ramp at low tide, with no problems, but with big duals and a lot of weight on them, I would expect good traction.
Click to expand...

That is very true about the duals and something that probably makes it get around well. In fact, come to think of it, it even get around fairly well well in the snow.

I agree that it is nice to have four wheel drive, but I have never used it in the summer when launching as I have never needed too. Sometimes the old truck or the suburban spins a tire for a second or two, but that is it.
 
I usually tow longer distances but I thought some might be interested in our real world experiences with gas versus diesel and some of my thoughts on 4 wheel drive.
I’m not sure I understand about the mentioned extra maintenance concerning a four wheel drive truck. Having to change the oil in the front differential and the transfer case every 50k was not a deal breaker for me. I mean to each their own; but I like buying new and I’m on my second new Chevy 4 wheel drive pickup. I had bought a used a 1997 Ford 5.4 4x4 that my son still drives with well over 150k. That truck had to have a transmission replaced under warranty. I pulled a 18.5’ Scout center console with it back and forth to the New Jersey shore. My 2001 ½ ton gas 5.3 V8 I put a 100k on it before selling it to buy a ¾ ton diesel. It needed a alternator replaced about 70k no other expenses than oil changes, brakes, etc. The weak part of the 2001 Chevy was the transmission, an automatic 4 speed. Long grades required it get into 2nd gear and at 55 mph turning about 3500 rpms it pulled our current 6000 pound boat without a problem. But the downshifts were not pretty. Plus the truck got between 8 to 10 miles per mpg pulling our current boat. I never had an issue with the transmission failing but it was a big reason why I wanted a heavier duty truck. In 2009 I bought a ¾ ton Duramax diesel with a six speed Allison transmission. The ¾ ton diesel has now 42,736 miles it has the original tires and brakes with no other expenses other than oil and filter changes which I do myself. It gets on average 13 to 14mpg pulling the boat. The trucks computer shows 3130 gallons of fuel used. I divided the total miles by the gallons and came up with 13.65 mpg. Using the same mileage and using the 10mpg to be kind the same 42736 miles would result in 4273 gallons of gas at 3.50 per gallon = about 4000 dollars more spent in fuel comparing the diesel truck to gas powered version. My guess at about 100k the diesel might get close to paying for itself. The diesel truck takes another three quarts of oil over the gas engine truck but goes twice as far on an oil change. I normally change oil in the gas engine at 5000 highway miles versus 10k for a diesel oil change. Both trucks were extended cabs with 8 foot beds that could seat six adults. Because I carry a dinghy, 2.5 hp. dinghy motor, rafting bumpers , floor jack, our canvas camper back, generator, extra water, gas for the generator and dink, small portable air compressor , 7’ one piece fishing rods( the real reason for the 8’ bed), fishing tackle, extra water, and other related items we carry being away from home for a month or at least a couple weeks. Not mention a small 50# dog with related supplies. The SUV was out of the question not to mention the need for special hitches to handle the tongue weight and no room for all the stuff we carry. With all the stuff in bed with a cap for security reasons plus the tongue weight of the trailer the rear of our truck is far from being light. Having said that, it rides pretty well. It sits perfectly level. Even empty it’s does not ride all that bad. It’s nice to have the extra torque to be able to able to pass smartly on two lane roads while pulling the boat and it can. It’s not noisy but I think it makes a tad more noise than a gas engine at highway speeds. In the winter they are more noisy until it warms up. No diesel exhaust smell or smoke ever and I don’t have to use diesel exhaust fluid as it’s an 2009. For me the diesel actually makes towing the boat fun especially up grades. We use the truck for lots of other uses plus pulling an open topped trailer for bigger items, landscape items, mulch etc. or moving things or picking up things for our kids. We have dropped trees and drug sections of tree trunk out to where it is easier to cut it up into smaller pieces and to load on to a trailer. The other reason is that if we want to pull a larger RV trailer (25’+)down the road it’s capable of doing that without breaking a sweat. We have no interest in having a separate self-contained motor home to maintain. Having a diesel pickup 4x 4 pickup has a lot of benefits if you are the type that might want to enjoy effortless towing a variety of different trailers and the added security of four wheel drive especially if you live where it snows . For me two wheel drive is not enough. I wanted something that has off the road pulling power. We do some surf fishfishing and you can’t even go on the beach without 4 wheel drive. So for us 4 wheel drive is a no brainer. I realize it’s not for everyone. Keep a tow strap handy.
D.D.
 
We drive a 2005 Ford Explorer 4WD and it does a good job both towing and launching our 22 ft boat.

It was good to see the note referencing the Honda Ridgeline. I was thinking that might be a good all around vehicle-with AWD vs 4WD. In our area of the country with the fact it snows almost half the year, having AWD is a good general option. Our other vehicle is Subaru Outback, and the AWD is great in the winter-but obviously not a tow vehicle. I believe the Ridgeline is rated at 5,000 towing capacity-and I was wondering if it had adequate reserve power to launch the boat. Any feedback on experience with the Ridgeline would be appreciated.
Regards,
Jack Howell
 
we use a 4wd/allwheel 2005 cherokee with hemi. I prefer it over the 3/4 ton cummings pickup for comfort while towing, its a fantastic tow vehicle for our 22CD.

but as Will pointed out with his silverado gas vs duramax (btw, i had the same gas silverado and yes that trans was weak), the gas mileage difference is substantial. I definitely want 4wd, but 9-12mpg with the hemi towing vs the consistent 17mpg in the cummings is a noticeable difference too.
 
Back
Top