22'Cruiser Options/Power/Equipment ????

C

CatyMae n Steve

New member
We are going to buy a 22' Cruiser. We like the idea of a 90 Honda and a kicker, as we like to troll and from what I've seen here, you can't get under 3 MPH with twin 45s trolling. I haven't seen any feedback, nor the question though, if you use sea anchors with twin 45s, what's the slowest troll you can get? We will be doing some ocean ventures also (hence the dilemma of twins or 90 and kicker), and are wondering if a 15 kicker and the 90 would assure us a safe trip home if the 90 were to fail. And, do we need trim tabs?

Also, what's the best way to install rod holders...amazing to me that a boat so appropriate for fishing has no rod holders! I've seen the thread on the angsting to drill the first hole in the boat...I'm not sure we can make ourselves do that! :smileo

I have to sell a 17' Duckworth before we make the big jump, but we're sooooo looking forward to the new boat! Great website, and hope to meet many of you on the water!

Caty n Steve
 
Congratulations on your taste in boats and welcome,
We like the idea of a 90 Honda and a kicker
Click to expand...
I'm a strong believer in a main/kicker arrangement -vs- twins. May I suggest that you consider the Evinrude E-Tec 90. Member "Sawdust", aka Dusty, is an experienced C-Doryman and is giving it a try. Its advantage is weight and response.
 
Thank you for your welcome! Yes, I've wanted a C-Dory for years :) I am grateful for your recommendation; however, Evinrude is not offered in the package from the dealer. So, in this instance, that's not an option.
 
As mentioned previously, welcome to the Pub.

Les, one of many extremely knowledgeable folks at the site has said that amonst the 4-stroke choices available nowadays, it's difficult to make a really bad choice. Most of this equipment is very utilitarian and will give good service. Individual preferrences are certain valid (ie. some folks like scotch, some bourbon, and there are even some water-drinkers, but it's all Good!).

Having said that: we have a Suzuki 90 on an '03 CD22 and are very happy with it. I hung a Suzuki 15 on a bracket and although it works, I think it's overkill. (The other problem is that I bought a shortshaft kicker, and the longshaft would have been better.) If I ever get around to selling the BF15(?) I will likely replace it with a BF6. I would urge you to consider going with the Honda 8 as a kicker. Several folks seem happy with them from what I recall.

As to trim tabs ... we have the "regular" (8" x 12") trim tabs and find them very useful; particularly in a stern heavy CD22 (motor(s), fuel, dual batt's, ice chest, plus a couple of cans of extra gas, etc.) The tabs help both for coming on-step and lateral trim. Yesterday I installed a "PermaTrim" gizmo in an effort to experiment with additional pitch control. First test of the new arrangement will be when we launch enroute to the Blakely Gathering. Stay tuned. Were I to do it over again I'd probably try to find trim tabs with somewhat larger "tabs."

Final comment. We had autopilot installed almost as an afterthought. I think it's FANTASTIC. It Certainly does not replace having someone attentively at the helm 100% of the time, but I find that it permits us to displacement-cruise (about 6mph...) for hours, with little/no stress. Doing that significantly increases our gas mileage (to about 6mpg versus 3/3.5mpg). When it's foggy or dark, having the autopilot helps with the radar/navigation/traffic workload as well. Just something else to consider.

Enjoy.

Casey
C-Dory Naknek
 
Thank you for the information you've so willingly shared. Casey, I hope to see your post on the trip with the new trim tab gizmo :) I hope it works well.

I'm the fishing fanatic in this family, and I'm still wondering why in the world there aren't rod holders in these boats right from the factory! It's like trying to make stew without a pot :shock:
 
Caty_n_Steve,

Welcome to the pub. :beer

I know this may seem strange to a fishing fanatic but many C-Dory owners(myself included) are cruisers first and not much of a fisherman.

If the factory put fish rod holders on my boat I would have paid for something that I didn't want or need.

If you buy a used boat it may have rod holders installed or if you are buying new, your dealer or the factory can install them to your custom specification.

These boats are like a blank canvas, you get to outfit and accessorize them till they are 'just right' for your style of boating.

Check out the photo albums of Tyboo and Mr. Fisherman, they fish!!!
 
Unless you need to troll VERY SLOW (say, walleye) I'm perfectly content with my twin 40 Hondas that troll at about 1.8 mph. I have a sea anchor (small kind, not the safety parachute style), but never need to use it to slow further. I prefer the redundancy of twins in a salt water environment. Were I primarily fishing inland water only I'd use a single plus kicker.

Get trim tabs. Mine are the larger Bennetts (I've now forgotten what size). You'll find various threads on this subject on this site. Full tabs-down will also slow the troll a bit, but not wise to do in a following sea where tabs-down makes for sloppy handling.

Rod holders are no problem. There are various after-market choices. Factory probably doesn't install them so that owners can customize location. If you fish downriggers, for instance, this affects placement. How you end up using the engine well also affects stern rod holder placement. You'd do well to read this site extensively before deciding where to locate rod holders. Various modifications (location of ice chests, bait tables, installation of engine well grab rail, etc) will potentially affect rod holder location.

Install a bilge pump. It gets mighty sloppy in the cockpit with just one heavy shower if you don't have a way to bilge. Having had it both ways, I'm happier with factory floorboards than without. My toes stay drier.

Have fun.
John on C-Trial
 
If I were buying new I would want to install the rod holders where I want rather than where the factory thinks they should go. This is due to my needing to install downriggers too. Plus I would want to use something other than the drop in style holders that most boat MFGs seem to install.

I've been on a couple of boats now that have the Yamaha T8. That is simply one awsome little motor. The last one I was on had electric start/tilt plus a TR-1 autopilot. What an awsome set up. Push a button to tilt it down. Another to start it up and pick up the remote and go fish. Only push a button on the remote when you want to avoid other boats or turn or speed up/down.
 
Caty n Steve - If going for the twins think about forgetting the trim tabs. We just got our 22 cruiser with a 90 honda; no kicker so the boat is pretty much balanced right from the start. We have found that the motor's power tilt is all you really need if you trim the boat the right way. From what we have experienced so far, all these kudos about the effectiveness of trim tabs seem somewhat overblown. That being said, if we could go back and do it over, we would get the boat with twin forties and forget the trim tabs to help pay the extra cost associated with them. No matter what power choice you decide on, it's a great boat that I am sure you will be happy with.

Warren aboard Chanty.
 
Sorry Warren, but I think your wrong on that one. My 22 with twin 50 as trim tabs (bennett) best option for that boat to my knowledge. 50 gals of fuel, big cooler ,down riggers,wife, 60pound lab, 25 gals fresh water,beer, all fishing gears,ect. wouldn't be without them. Gary SEA RAM
 
Hi Gary - I'm not sure about this, but I think your twins would weight more than my single engine right from the get go. This alone, however, should not make for our differences of experiences with trim tabs. All I can say is, with the single Honda 90, with full fuel and water tanks, 300' anchor chain and windlass, and all the other items you usually find on a well equipped boat, the boat rides as designed without the use of the installed bennett trim tabs. I have always believed that a well designed and properly powered boat should not need trim tabs to reach its performance expectations (unless the naval arthitect who designed the boat included them). If it turns out it needs trim tabs to perform as designed, I believe it is either a flawed design, it is over/under powered, or it is improperly loaded; or any combination of the three. Based on my personal experience so far with Chanty, my opinion about this is has not changed. Differences of opinion, based on actual experience, can be hard to understand sometimes, that's the reason I find these threads so thought provoking.

Warren, aboard Chanty
 
I'll shoot my old mouth off on this one!

The 22 was designed for a 2-stroke, light weight motor, small fuel tanks -- this list goes on! With a 90 Honda or equiv. weight IMO tabs are absolutely the best option you can install. I've had, over the years, 6 of the 22's and I'd hate to leave port without them in any kind of choppy weather. Bringing the outboard in to get the bow down in a headsea chop is a very inefficient way to run -- on the fuel flow indicator you can lose 10 or 15 percent efficiency. Carefully tuning the tabs and Honda 90 I can get much better than 4 NMPG... full fuel, 1/2 water and plenty of gear. (Not weighed). Tabs make the difference between an uncomfortable ride and a pleasanat one. BUT -- pick those rascals UP in a heavy following sea.

Even with the E-Tec 90, which is approximately the same weight as the original C-Dory design, the tabs are a joy!

My .02 --

Dusty
 
Chanty":2dmz8kmm said:
...300' anchor chain...
Click to expand...

Is that what you actually have in the rode locker? If so, it would certainly go a long way toward explaining the ineffectiveness of your trim tabs.

When I first put the Bennett M120s on my CD22, I was hoping for lateral trim capability. I got that and a whole bunch more. To me, the real measure of the tabs' worth was tweaking them and the motor trim at cruise speed while watching the GPS speed. The tabs, when properly tuned, gave me an additional 1 - 2 smph at the same engine rpm. While the speed itself was not that big a deal, the efficiency improvement of the hull through the water and the inherent decrease in prop slippage was a huge economy factor. Plus, it gave me the ability to maintain a comfortable cruise speed in much choppier water than I had ever imagined cruising that fast in. Huge difference, and worth every penny. My opinion is that the Bennett M120 Sport Tabs were made for the C-Dory 22 hull.

Added on edit:

When I read back over this, the first couple of sentences didn't sound like they came from a nice guy. I sure didn't mean for it to sound that way. I was taken by the thought of 300' of chain and the weight it would add to the bow. If that is what works well for you in the waters you frequent, then there is nothing wrong with it. To have that much weight up front here on the Columbia river, with the oft following seas and the steep rolling swells, would make getting back to port nigh onto impossible a good part of the time. In those conditions, it is important (to me, anyway) to have the bow riding high. And because those conditions are likely to be encountered, the boat had to be loaded at all times to allow that attitude. The trim tabs were the only way to make the ride tolerable the rest of the time. Without the tabs, and the bow lightly loaded, I would have to stretch my neck out to see over the front when up on plane, even with the motor trimmed all the way down. And with the motor tucked under, the speed and fuel economy went way down. The CD25 that we have now is not so sensitive to the sea conditions as was the CD22, but I still feel better being able to stick her nose up in the air if I want.
 
Hi Mike - From one nice guy to another. You read that correctly, there is 300' feet of chain in our anchor locker. You are absolutely right that that might be the difference in our trim tab experiences. When we purchased the boat, the dealer was insistent that that was the way to go based on their delivery of many new boats (Cutter Marine is the east coasts highest volume dealer). They even offered to change it to the usual rode and short chain arrangement if we were not happy. At this point, I do not see any reason to change, although I would love to see how the boat performs with an all nylon anchor rode. If there are any Cutter C-dory people out there who have had all chain and switched to nylon I'd like to hear from them. One LAST thought, it isn't that my tabs aren't functioning properly, it's that we do not have to use them (maybe because of the chain?) in order to trim the boat. Would the boat be more efficient without the added weight of the anchor chain causing us to depend on the tabs to trim the boat? I don't know about that, maybe I'll hear from someone who switched over.

Warren aboard Chanty
 
Caty_n_Steve,
Why don't you folks click on the memberlist ^^^above, click on Les Lampman's web site (of EQ fame) and check out the "Fully Rigged" C-22 he is presently offering as a special. Did I mention...Fully Rigged?

Git goin'...check it out.
Gene
 
Warren,

You could experiment by borrowing an anchor and rope rode (or maybe you have a stern anchor?) and leave your chain at home. If your chain is 1/4 in, 300 ft weighs 240lbs + or - . I have found that a 200 lb person in the v-berth puts the bow down and that much weight even more forward would prevent the bow from lifting to the waves.

I carry 30 ft of 1/4 in chain and 300 ft of 7/16 nylon rode and no windlass on the bow anchor(16.5 lb Bruce anchor). This bow anchor gear has been adequate from So Cal to Southeast Alaska. I also have a 13 lb Danforth with chain and rode for a stern anchor or for soft mud. The Bruce hold in everything but soft mud (not enough fluke area for mud).
 
Warren-

Welcome aboard, and congratulations on your new C-Dory!

Most of us seem to agree the boat rides through the waves easier light in the ends at lower speeds, but the bow down trim, either due to motor trim, trim tabs, or bow weight really helps when busting through moderate chop by holding the sharper bow of the boat down to split the waves better.

I really agree with having some weight in the bow if the sea conditions one usually encounters will allow it, and I agree with you that the best way to balance out a boat is to move passengers and gear around rather than dragging some appendage through the water to compensate for poor loading! For certain types of anchoring, I also think that the all chain rode works very well.

I converted over from a traditional set up of 15 feet of chain and 150 feet of nylon to substitute 100 feet of chain for the 15, and the added 63 lbs of weight was immediately noticeable in the ride in chop. The boat also required less trim as a result.

That 300 feet of chain (assuming it's the High Test G4 1/4" type) weighs 222 lbs, and your fully loaded CD-22 probably weighs somewhere between 2600-2800 lbs with the single motor.

The 222 lbs of chain, 15 lbs or so of anchor, and another 20 pounds of windlass add up to 257 lbs, so you've got about 10% of the weight of the boat right there in the nose.

In a more traditional chain-nylon set-up, the rode would weigh 25 lbs, the entire system would total 60 lbs, and be lighter by 200 lbs!

So it's very understandable why you've got such a great wave-buster there in Chanty, and why flipping the trim tabs up and down doesn't have much of an effect on the ride.

If you want to experience the difference yourself, either remove the chain for a ride, or spill it out over the bow and then manually carry the tail back to the cockpit and pull it all in, centering the weight there, and then check out the ride difference. If you do, be sure to let us know how it checks out.

Nice talking with you! Joe.
 
Larry- Good point about a person in the bow!

My Great Dane, Shadow, thinks the v-berth is her Floating Dog House. Whenever I put the throttle down hard in in chop, she immediately seeks refuge in the nose, helping trim the boat. She weighs about 175 lbs, so our experiences are pretty similar. In fairer weather, she likes to set up there at slower speeds with her head sticking out of the forward hatch! Joe.
 
Mine came with the mounts to drop scotty pole holders in, plus your down riggers usually have pole holders available, unless you are talking about rod racks, I put verticle ones to the right of the door, I've seen the "rocket launcher" style added as well....
 
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