A
Anonymous
Guest
IMO
permatrim highly recommended
trim tabs absolutely a necessity
both is best.
permatrim highly recommended
trim tabs absolutely a necessity
both is best.
22' model - best repower choice
- Thread starter san juanderer
- Start date
I agree, having run both a C Dory 25 and 22 without Permatrims, and then put them on. Both the Permatrim and the Tabs add to the seaworthiness of the boat. The amount of top ends speed is minimal--maybe one mph.
The key to all of this is the Permitrim running on the surface of the water wen on a plane. If it is buried then the motor is too low in the water.
Yes, the boats will run without either (and my first 22 did "OK"--but with the addition of the Permatrim--a lot of difference in rougher water.
The key to all of this is the Permitrim running on the surface of the water wen on a plane. If it is buried then the motor is too low in the water.
Yes, the boats will run without either (and my first 22 did "OK"--but with the addition of the Permatrim--a lot of difference in rougher water.
We have the cc23 with a115CT merc My boat weighs about 4000 lb with fuel ,water batteries and engine This is for daily driving not camping
The merc CT 115 is the newer version it’s 2.1 L vs the Colbys 1.7 older merc based on the Verado block At 4000 rpm we hit about 20mph 4500rpm about 25mph WOT 5200-5500 rpm over 30 mph ++ At 20 mph we usually get around 4mpg depending on sea conditions The Merc was about$ 1000-1500 less then the Yamaha also merc will extend out of the water more The Merc is also quieter and with bigger prop 15/17 pitch will handle very good around the marina
We did have one problem that was hard to diagnose it was the throttle position sensor it was an easy fix but took a while to figure it out
The merc CT 115 is the newer version it’s 2.1 L vs the Colbys 1.7 older merc based on the Verado block At 4000 rpm we hit about 20mph 4500rpm about 25mph WOT 5200-5500 rpm over 30 mph ++ At 20 mph we usually get around 4mpg depending on sea conditions The Merc was about$ 1000-1500 less then the Yamaha also merc will extend out of the water more The Merc is also quieter and with bigger prop 15/17 pitch will handle very good around the marina
We did have one problem that was hard to diagnose it was the throttle position sensor it was an easy fix but took a while to figure it out
san juanderer":wc9epz5l said:
Yes, I'd recommend it. Ran my CT90 without for a year, and was happy without it. Added one the following summer and was even happier! It wasn't noticeable much in flat calm water but soon realized heading straight into a short chop I could now go along comfortably at say 4000 RPM without pounding, whereas previously I may have been limited to 3200 RPM in the same conditions without the Permatrim. But I don't have trim tabs either, so if you do maybe you'll do just as well without the Permatrim. But having both is said to be even better.
-Mike
Teufelshunde
New member
I added a permatrim on my 2019 Yamaha 90 and noticed I had to trim the motor more while going past 8-9 knots or it would bow steer starboard. Previously it would bow steer at a higher speed so I’m very happy in chop bow down going slow :thup
I’m assuming along with other advantages trim tabs would allow me to go a little faster without trimming the motor so I don’t bow steer?
I’m assuming along with other advantages trim tabs would allow me to go a little faster without trimming the motor so I don’t bow steer?
Teufelshunde":2dp1hxim said:
The idea with the tabs and the permatrim is to get the nose down. The further the bow is down, the more the chance of bow steer. How you get there doesn't really matter. Tabs, permatrim, or adding a bunch of weight to the bow will result in the same effect.
The apparent advantage of permatrim over tabs is the amount of deflection required. Less deflection for the same result equal less drag. On my boat I normally run the tabs at about 70% (according to the indicator) to get the bow where I want it. In some situations I need to run the tabs full down. This is bad for the fuel economy and knocks about 6-7 mph off the top speed. The permatrim should have a more powerful effect per unit of trim.
I'm going to put a permatrim on this spring, so we'll see what the difference is.
Bow steering is undesirable. I have not had any of the C Dorys bow steer, unless the bow was purposefully pushed down with trim tabs or Permatrim. Going down wind and waves, trim tabs should be retracted--maybe even fully. You want to try and have the prop thrust parallel to the surface of the water, and the Permatrim running just at the surface, not submerged. Check to see where the permatrim is at your planing speed.
Teufelshunde
New member
thataway":1iqka8b7 said:
I have to trim/tilt the motor to bring the bow up in following seas or above 8 knots on flat water with my permatrim now installed.
If you dropped your motor down above planing speed your boat wouldn’t bow steer?
When my prop shaft is level (trim up a little) - the bottom of my boat is level with the anti ventilation plate and from what I can tell my permatrim is at the surface at planing speed.
I do not bow steer until I reach around 10 knots ( not trimming ).
Sorry if I’m not making myself clear - just wondering if I’m having a problem with the height of my motor but I seem to make it work with trimming my motor up as I gain speed in smooth seas of course.
To get max efficiency out of any outboard boat, I get it on a plane, about where I want a cruising speed. I leave the throttle fixed and trim the engine up or down to where the speed is greatest, with no change of the throttle. For this I would leave the trim tabs at up position.
I rarely if ever run with the engine all of the way trimmed down. I will trim down when going up on a plane, and then pull the engine back until the boat is level and running at best speed for the conditions....
I rarely if ever run with the engine all of the way trimmed down. I will trim down when going up on a plane, and then pull the engine back until the boat is level and running at best speed for the conditions....
Teufelshunde
New member
Thanks Bob that is exactly what I do I just read into your earlier explanation too much and got a little confused.
As far as trim tabs I would rather use them to balance the boat out at speed - if it were leaning port or starboard (because of uneven load or people moving on board ) adjust accordingly.
Use the permatrim for getting on plain faster but I don’t have trim tabs - just my thought of how I would use them.
As far as trim tabs I would rather use them to balance the boat out at speed - if it were leaning port or starboard (because of uneven load or people moving on board ) adjust accordingly.
Use the permatrim for getting on plain faster but I don’t have trim tabs - just my thought of how I would use them.
-Waypoint-
Member
Our boat has the twin Honda 40hp carbureted (1998) engines. They’re making oil, leaking oil, knocking, rusting apart, but start every time. Were going to repower the boat this year and planning on replacing them with new Honda 40s or Yamaha 40s. I thought about upgrading to the Honda 50s for the extra $2000. That gives me 1000 rpms/ 20hp more at WOT (6500 rpms). I rarely run at 5500 rpms. on the old Honda 40s. I cruise between 4000- 4500 rpms. all the time @ 15- 18 kts., depending on the trip load out. Recently got a boat show price on the Honda 40s w/ all new everything for $11,600. Working on an estimate for Yamaha 40s w/ all new everything. I believe simply a newer set of engines will give better performance overall with better fuel economy. (With the same hp rating and block size.) Happy motor shopping!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Teufelshunde":2gi2umvr said:
I had only trim tabs on my first c-dory. I had to run my boat a high rpms to get the bow down where I wanted it. I find it is more relaxing to run the boat at lower rpms around 4000. with only tabs the nose will be up in the air.
With permatrim you can run the boat closer to level (front to back) at lower rpms.
These boat absolutely have to have trim tabs permatrim addition is optional but try it and you will be sold.
As to bowsteer and trimming. I am constantly adjusting trim on my boat with TT and PT depending on velocity, wind direction, current, it is part of running these boats. They are corks floating on top of the water unlike displecemnt hulls. Check the height your engine is mounted.
You say you had bowsteer at high speed before the PT. You may be going too fast. I have experienced this as well. 25 knots is about as fast as you can go comfortably after about 28 knots you get bow steer. You cannot run these boats at high speed, unless the bow is trimmed way up. permatrim wont allow you to go faster, but will make your slow to medium cruise more comfortable. Running the boat in the right conditions with trim tabs may alleviate you bow steer because the boat would not be in a constant state of leaning to the right.
CaptMac":2gywcirt said:
I had a new one of these installed last October just prior to putting the boat up for the winter. Looking forward to seeing how it compares to my old 2006 Honda 90 carburetted. I'm hoping for it to be a bit quieter and a little better fuel economy.
https://www.dropbox.com/home/Boat/C Sharp?preview=20200121_130142_HDR.jpg
Etecbring kecEvnrude developing it. Bombier purchased it as told for the developed patented engine to use on many of their line. Always gong was fresh oil and wt.
Many 4 strokes have gone on a diet.
WHERE IS QUAITY service in your area? Yamaha, Suzuki’s, Honda’s all great engines.
I have Venture 23 so hull not like any C-Dory so can’t compare.
It has twin Honda’s it came with in 2006. 750 hrs. Many Honda’s carried for
Last 3000 hrs.
I have noticed many C-Dorys with motors above mfg recommendations.
Sit low n stern. But perhaps on water perform fine.
We are not interested in speed as we are out there to cruise at 15 knots.
High speeds can usually only be obtained calm waters. Mostly on Puget Sound to Desolation Sound, Campbell Really ver etc. this is not the norm.
Remember props are also key to performance also.
So just a view from different angle.
Baxter
Many 4 strokes have gone on a diet.
WHERE IS QUAITY service in your area? Yamaha, Suzuki’s, Honda’s all great engines.
I have Venture 23 so hull not like any C-Dory so can’t compare.
It has twin Honda’s it came with in 2006. 750 hrs. Many Honda’s carried for
Last 3000 hrs.
I have noticed many C-Dorys with motors above mfg recommendations.
Sit low n stern. But perhaps on water perform fine.
We are not interested in speed as we are out there to cruise at 15 knots.
High speeds can usually only be obtained calm waters. Mostly on Puget Sound to Desolation Sound, Campbell Really ver etc. this is not the norm.
Remember props are also key to performance also.
So just a view from different angle.
Baxter
Teufelshunde
New member
A Fishin C":7mow0711 said:
I’m still getting used to this new boat - other boats I have operated did not need as much trim adjusting as the C-dory but I’m getting it down
(one hand on wheel and one on throttle/trim button).
After putting the PT on I was very happy with the performance at slow speeds in the ocean cutting chop bow down.
Now I am going to save/research for trim tabs - looking at the Bennett - either electric or hydraulic and figure out what size for my boat.
Thanks for the info
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ I’m still getting used to this new boat - other boats I have operated did not need as much trim adjusting as the C-dory but I’m getting it down
(one hand on wheel and one on throttle/trim button).
After putting the PT on I was very happy with the performance at slow speeds in the ocean cutting chop bow down.
Now I am going to save/research for trim tabs - looking at the Bennett - either electric or hydraulic and figure out what size for my boat.
Thanks for the info[/quote]
See page 9 of my photo album.
I used Lenco electric trim tabs, easy install, reasonably priced. I had Bennett hydraulics on the last boat, both worked equally well.
With the tabs, push the switch in one second increments to adjust. If you hold the switch it is too easy to over adjust.
Cheers
(one hand on wheel and one on throttle/trim button).
After putting the PT on I was very happy with the performance at slow speeds in the ocean cutting chop bow down.
Now I am going to save/research for trim tabs - looking at the Bennett - either electric or hydraulic and figure out what size for my boat.
Thanks for the info[/quote]
See page 9 of my photo album.
I used Lenco electric trim tabs, easy install, reasonably priced. I had Bennett hydraulics on the last boat, both worked equally well.
With the tabs, push the switch in one second increments to adjust. If you hold the switch it is too easy to over adjust.
Cheers
Peter & Judy
New member
My boat was repowered with a Honda 90 HP from a 70 HP before I bought it. I have lemco trim tabs and a Permatrim on the 90. I also have a Honda 9.9 kicker. Once I have a full load of fuel which includes a 45 litre slip tank and a big cooler in the back the transom gets quite heavy.
One solution which killed two birds with one stone was adding storage under the v-berth. We cut out hatches, removed the foam and we now have loads of storage in the bow. Once I did this and moved some of the clutter and weight to the bow storage I found that the boat rides much better. It is balanced better, rides smoother through waves and chop at both hull speed and planeing. I think that it might also be slightly more fuel efficient.