BaseCampAnne
New member
I believe I read on someone's post that our boats come with 2 installed batteries from the factory. Can anyone verify that?
Thanks,
Anne
Thanks,
Anne
22' come with 2 batteries?
- Thread starter BaseCampAnne
- Start date
Nope. Dealer installed item. Comes from the factory IF you were fortunate to have bought one factory direct like a few Brats here did. You choose type and number of batteries, you choose where to install them. Mine came with two AGM batteries in the starboard lazarette installed by the local dealer.
Don
Don
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
Anne,
Typically that is an option that you specify when your dealer rigs the boat. Here's my 2 cents worth on the location of the second battery. Have the dealer put it in the port side lazarette rather than in the starboard. That balances out the weight better. Especially true if you have a kicker on the starboard side.
Steve
Typically that is an option that you specify when your dealer rigs the boat. Here's my 2 cents worth on the location of the second battery. Have the dealer put it in the port side lazarette rather than in the starboard. That balances out the weight better. Especially true if you have a kicker on the starboard side.
Steve
flapbreaker
New member
I have one in each lazzarette and one on the floor between the fuel tanks. Dealer installed, except I added the one in the middle to double my house capacitiy. Works well.
BaseCampAnne
New member
Thanks for the feedback. I know I asked for two batteries and have only one. Next time around I will have a paper trail for everything 
My current battery is stored in a plastic battery box on the floor by the pump. The power switch is located in the starboard lazarette. I do not know what all will be involved in getting the second battery, but can hear the cha-chings adding up now :roll:
Thanks again, Anne
My current battery is stored in a plastic battery box on the floor by the pump. The power switch is located in the starboard lazarette. I do not know what all will be involved in getting the second battery, but can hear the cha-chings adding up now :roll:
Thanks again, Anne
Anne,
We added a second battery after taking delivery. Since we didn't have a battery charger installed, it made me nervous to rely on only one battery. Both of ours is installed in the starboard lazerette and it's really jammed in there tight plus the battery switch is in there.
It would be nice as others suggested to put a battery in each lazerette. Just be sure that the port lazerette is water-tight, I think ours is kinda wet.
Good luck!
Peter
We added a second battery after taking delivery. Since we didn't have a battery charger installed, it made me nervous to rely on only one battery. Both of ours is installed in the starboard lazerette and it's really jammed in there tight plus the battery switch is in there.
It would be nice as others suggested to put a battery in each lazerette. Just be sure that the port lazerette is water-tight, I think ours is kinda wet.
Good luck!
Peter
Capital Sea
New member
I went with Gelcells so my house battery could be installed under the stove and I could retain the dry storage in the cockpit or use the space to keep crabs on ice. This required a new switch and a dipswitch change on my charger. This brings the power a bit closer to the toys as well. Weight distribution is an issue but only when the boat is a rest in the water and not to a great extent.
Jazzmanic":1hedpk66 said:
Another option, is between the tanks. Keeping them here, keeps the weight low and centered, and frees up the lazarettes for other uses.
I was digging through some old pics, and found the images below I took of my old 19 Angler setup. This worked really well for me - it's a Blue Sea battery box, with just enough room for two Optimas. I bolted a waterproof charger to the side, then wired it to a power outlet - also installed in the side of the box.
Made for a very compact setup, and to charge the batteries, I'd simply pull an extension cord into the cockpit. It didn't extend into the cockpit, and there was enough room to the side once installed to get at the drain plug.
flapbreaker
New member
Jazzmanic":3owgatve said:
I think the reason the port lazarette collects moisture is because it can't breath. I wouldn't try and make it water tight. I actually took a 2" whole saw just under the port gunnel and put a 2" hole in the port lazarette so it could breath and stay dry. Sounds kinda backwards but it works. The starboard lazarette already has holes so water build up is not a problem.
Capital Sea, I hope that you mean that you put in AGM batteries , not Gel batteries. The reason is that the Gel batteries will not tolerate battery voltages over 14 to 14.1 volts, and most of our outboards put out 14.4 to 14.5 volts. The higher voltage is OK for AGM batteries, but not Gel Batteries.
I was aboard a brand new 22 today, and it came from the factory with the single battery in the Starboard Lazarette.
I was aboard a brand new 22 today, and it came from the factory with the single battery in the Starboard Lazarette.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Les installed the batteries and controls in the J.C.Lately and the installation has, with one exception, proven quite workable.
The Engine Start battery is in the Port lazarette (Interstate DCS-100 sealed AGM) and the House battery (Optima SC34DM gel-cel) is in the Starboard lazarette together with a modular array of individual battery master switches, a parallel emergency switch (which allows for starting the engine off the house battery) and a voltage sensitive relay. Also present in the starboard laz is a 50A thermal overload relay for all the house loads and the common buss for all the negative connections.
And all this stuff goes to operate and manage the electrical supply system for a single-motor boat.
If this doesn't make much sense I would heartily recommend that you arrange for the services of a competent marine electrical system mechanic (ask around) since what you're creating is an electrical source management system for a vessel with two alternate (presumably) engines, electronics, lights and potentially other assorted loads.
Paul Priest
Sequim
The Engine Start battery is in the Port lazarette (Interstate DCS-100 sealed AGM) and the House battery (Optima SC34DM gel-cel) is in the Starboard lazarette together with a modular array of individual battery master switches, a parallel emergency switch (which allows for starting the engine off the house battery) and a voltage sensitive relay. Also present in the starboard laz is a 50A thermal overload relay for all the house loads and the common buss for all the negative connections.
And all this stuff goes to operate and manage the electrical supply system for a single-motor boat.
If this doesn't make much sense I would heartily recommend that you arrange for the services of a competent marine electrical system mechanic (ask around) since what you're creating is an electrical source management system for a vessel with two alternate (presumably) engines, electronics, lights and potentially other assorted loads.
Paul Priest
Sequim
The boats [22s]come with a single group 24 battery wiring setup in the starboard aft box.They do currently use a Blue Sea Systems switch [ good stuff] but if you want big amp hours you must do additional wiring for a second bank then decide if you want to start from scratch , get as technical as you like or just add a second battery and change the 1 bank to a 2 bank switch. The electrical system is something that can be done in many ways from simple start/house setup on a simple 1-2-both switch to interconnected ,highly monitored systems.It is good to consider your real needs before going wild on a complex setup if you are just overnighting or day cruising .
Marc
Marc
on my 22 angler i run 4 batteries. 2 large lead acids in the lazarettes on a switch. i also have 2 big optima gels in the cabin under the pilot seat that run a 1000w inverter(small microwave, blender, and 110 flouescent lighting, plus 4 12v plug ins).
the optimas are not connected to the engine system but theoretically could still be used to jump the mains in a pinch. the optimas are connected to each other in parallel (effectively just one third bigger 12v battery). i then have a 3x15A automatic (trickle)charger connected to an extention cord i can reach from the ground in the gunnel. simply plug it in while in storage and the whole system tops off great.......and believe it or not the thing still floats.
chris
the optimas are not connected to the engine system but theoretically could still be used to jump the mains in a pinch. the optimas are connected to each other in parallel (effectively just one third bigger 12v battery). i then have a 3x15A automatic (trickle)charger connected to an extention cord i can reach from the ground in the gunnel. simply plug it in while in storage and the whole system tops off great.......and believe it or not the thing still floats.
chris
For clarification. Optima batteries are Absorbed Gel Mat (AGM) batteries)--which have different characteristics than Gel batteries.--see my post above.
Gel Cells" contain acid that has been "gelled" by the addition of Silica Gel, turning the acid into a solid mass that looks like gooey Jell-O. The advantage of these batteries is that it is impossible to spill acid even if they are broken. However, there are several disadvantages. One is that they must be charged at a slower rate (C/20) to prevent excess gas from damaging the cells. They cannot be fast charged on a conventional automotive charger or they may be permanently damaged. Some other disadvantages of gel cells is that they must be charged at a lower voltage (2/10th's less) than flooded or AGM batteries. If overcharged, voids can develop in the gel which will never heal, causing a loss in battery capacity.
The AGM batteries, have all of the advantages of a Gel cell, but none of the disadvantages. They can be charged at the same voltage, and a slightly higher current than flooded lead acid batteries. The AGM battery has the electrolyte in a 95% saturated very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat tightly packed around the lead plates. The Optima batteries are slightly different than some other AGM, in that they use a spiral windind of plates and mat. But remember that any battery will have a capacity roughly proportinate to its weight (the amount of lead). Generally the Optima batteries are lighter, and thus have less capacity. I carefully investigated them, and have revisited the subject--with the conclusion that flooded lead acid give the best for the $$ and AGM are best in situations where you have to put the battery on its side or end, and inside of a cabin. The AGM will take the most abuse.
Gel Cells" contain acid that has been "gelled" by the addition of Silica Gel, turning the acid into a solid mass that looks like gooey Jell-O. The advantage of these batteries is that it is impossible to spill acid even if they are broken. However, there are several disadvantages. One is that they must be charged at a slower rate (C/20) to prevent excess gas from damaging the cells. They cannot be fast charged on a conventional automotive charger or they may be permanently damaged. Some other disadvantages of gel cells is that they must be charged at a lower voltage (2/10th's less) than flooded or AGM batteries. If overcharged, voids can develop in the gel which will never heal, causing a loss in battery capacity.
The AGM batteries, have all of the advantages of a Gel cell, but none of the disadvantages. They can be charged at the same voltage, and a slightly higher current than flooded lead acid batteries. The AGM battery has the electrolyte in a 95% saturated very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat tightly packed around the lead plates. The Optima batteries are slightly different than some other AGM, in that they use a spiral windind of plates and mat. But remember that any battery will have a capacity roughly proportinate to its weight (the amount of lead). Generally the Optima batteries are lighter, and thus have less capacity. I carefully investigated them, and have revisited the subject--with the conclusion that flooded lead acid give the best for the $$ and AGM are best in situations where you have to put the battery on its side or end, and inside of a cabin. The AGM will take the most abuse.
Capital Sea
New member
To clarify/correct what I posted (thanks Thataway my intention was to help) both of my batteries are Optima Marine duel purpose and the charging is managed by a VSR voltage sensitive relay module (100amp).
The issues encountered in adding this 2nd battery inside and wanting to reserve the 2nd lazerette involved the need for both batteries to be of the same ilk even if of differing sizes and the need to not introduce gasses into the cabin. My primary power and under way charging is via a Honda 90.
We (Lake union searay and I) looked into the cranking needs and computability and the advise I got was that this system was fine both in terms of cranking needs (on the low end of fine though) and in terms of charging and volts. If the information I was given was bad, I remain interested in any good advice as my goal was to have a long lasting system that would never leave me wanting a jump or a charge.
I also installed a good quality charger under the counter as part of my 15amp shore power (design acquired here) and switched the dipswitch for gel batteries as instructed. On the dash I have a voltage gauge and a toggle switch which allows me to check the house battery by depressing it (the default position is for the cranking battery). Now I am only at 30 hours but I have yet to see any drop in charge.
If I had been starting from scratch I would have located the rear battery in the port lazerette for balance. This would have meant a near total rewiring in addition to mods to the lazerette. So I opted to accept the at rest tilt caused by the two batteries and the 9.9 all being on the starboard side. As it's still winter I have never filled the water tank and I expect that this will help a little.
The issues encountered in adding this 2nd battery inside and wanting to reserve the 2nd lazerette involved the need for both batteries to be of the same ilk even if of differing sizes and the need to not introduce gasses into the cabin. My primary power and under way charging is via a Honda 90.
We (Lake union searay and I) looked into the cranking needs and computability and the advise I got was that this system was fine both in terms of cranking needs (on the low end of fine though) and in terms of charging and volts. If the information I was given was bad, I remain interested in any good advice as my goal was to have a long lasting system that would never leave me wanting a jump or a charge.
I also installed a good quality charger under the counter as part of my 15amp shore power (design acquired here) and switched the dipswitch for gel batteries as instructed. On the dash I have a voltage gauge and a toggle switch which allows me to check the house battery by depressing it (the default position is for the cranking battery). Now I am only at 30 hours but I have yet to see any drop in charge.
If I had been starting from scratch I would have located the rear battery in the port lazerette for balance. This would have meant a near total rewiring in addition to mods to the lazerette. So I opted to accept the at rest tilt caused by the two batteries and the 9.9 all being on the starboard side. As it's still winter I have never filled the water tank and I expect that this will help a little.
It is difficult to get the "static balance" of the boats perfect--because of differing amounts of fuel, water, gear an persons.
The Optima batteries will work fine in your application--and probably are a good choice. What I do see is that people occasionally buy too small a battery for house banks. The C Dory has modest demands, and a couple of group 24's (unles you have refigeration and want to stay at anchor for several days) is fine.
Although it is recommended to not mix sizes, ages and types of batteries, at times it becomes the logical way to go considering wiring and economics.
The checking the battery voltage, as you do, and never discharging more than 50% (12.2 volts resting) wi Comll prolong the life. There are mixed results with Optima batteries. If you read "The Hull Truth" there are a number of problems which are reported. However, one rarely finds out how well the battery was maintained (not too deeply discharged, not allowed to sit discharged, fully charged etc).
Also remember that numbers like "group 24 or 30" are case size. In that case size there are different capacities--and that often relates directly to the weight of the battery. For example, the largest blue top, dual battery by Optima D 35, weight is 43.5 lbs, it has cranking amps of 875 and Capacity of 55 amp hours. Compare to the Group 31 AGM battery which weighs 70 lbs, has cranking amps of 1000, Capacity of 105 amp hours.
If you are using the charging for gel batteries, rather than AGM batteries, it is possiable that you are under charging the battery. (The reason I put down the specifics for the gel cell vs the AGM battery). Unfortunately the language used causes confusion. The voltages for an Optima are the same as an AGM battery, and can be used on standard outboards and cars, where as the gel cell battery cannot be safely charged at over 14 to 14.1 volts. Check the voltage as the battery is being charged.
The Optima batteries will work fine in your application--and probably are a good choice. What I do see is that people occasionally buy too small a battery for house banks. The C Dory has modest demands, and a couple of group 24's (unles you have refigeration and want to stay at anchor for several days) is fine.
Although it is recommended to not mix sizes, ages and types of batteries, at times it becomes the logical way to go considering wiring and economics.
The checking the battery voltage, as you do, and never discharging more than 50% (12.2 volts resting) wi Comll prolong the life. There are mixed results with Optima batteries. If you read "The Hull Truth" there are a number of problems which are reported. However, one rarely finds out how well the battery was maintained (not too deeply discharged, not allowed to sit discharged, fully charged etc).
Also remember that numbers like "group 24 or 30" are case size. In that case size there are different capacities--and that often relates directly to the weight of the battery. For example, the largest blue top, dual battery by Optima D 35, weight is 43.5 lbs, it has cranking amps of 875 and Capacity of 55 amp hours. Compare to the Group 31 AGM battery which weighs 70 lbs, has cranking amps of 1000, Capacity of 105 amp hours.
If you are using the charging for gel batteries, rather than AGM batteries, it is possiable that you are under charging the battery. (The reason I put down the specifics for the gel cell vs the AGM battery). Unfortunately the language used causes confusion. The voltages for an Optima are the same as an AGM battery, and can be used on standard outboards and cars, where as the gel cell battery cannot be safely charged at over 14 to 14.1 volts. Check the voltage as the battery is being charged.
Capital Sea
New member
From everything you said, I am 90% sure my system is set up right but will look back into things.
My boat came with one cranking batteries in the starboard lazerette.
I’m installing an additional deep-cycle along with a Perko duel battery switch. Total for this upgrade is about 80 bucks and change. It took some doing but you can fit two batteries in the starboard lazerette.
I’ve not tested this set up but am confident it will work fine. Start the engine or engines and run until the cranking battery is charged-about 10 minuets-then switch over to the house battery. I also will be installing a duel battery energy gauge in the dash so I can monitor the charge capacity of each battery.
For my money the deep cycle marine batteries at Costo are a great value, about $55.
Also, dedicate the Wallis to one battery, preferable the house, and additionally if your boat is moored I’d dedicate the bilge pump to a battery also most likely the house.
You can spend a lot of money installing sophisticated electronics to take the guess work out on managing your charging system, but for my money my brain is far more sophisticated.
Another redundancy I’d consider is installing an additional bulge pump independently set at auto and placed a couple of inches above the default bulge pump. That way the backup will not engage unless the default has failed.
A lot of stuff to consider…..
I’m installing an additional deep-cycle along with a Perko duel battery switch. Total for this upgrade is about 80 bucks and change. It took some doing but you can fit two batteries in the starboard lazerette.
I’ve not tested this set up but am confident it will work fine. Start the engine or engines and run until the cranking battery is charged-about 10 minuets-then switch over to the house battery. I also will be installing a duel battery energy gauge in the dash so I can monitor the charge capacity of each battery.
For my money the deep cycle marine batteries at Costo are a great value, about $55.
Also, dedicate the Wallis to one battery, preferable the house, and additionally if your boat is moored I’d dedicate the bilge pump to a battery also most likely the house.
You can spend a lot of money installing sophisticated electronics to take the guess work out on managing your charging system, but for my money my brain is far more sophisticated.
Another redundancy I’d consider is installing an additional bulge pump independently set at auto and placed a couple of inches above the default bulge pump. That way the backup will not engage unless the default has failed.
A lot of stuff to consider…..
marvin4239
New member
I've got a group 24 starting battery in my starboard lazarrette along with the 1,2,both,off selector switch. In the port lazarrette I have two group 24's paralled for the house batteries. This works out pretty good the batterries are a tight fit in the port lazarrette but once in place there is a little storage left. With this arrangement a full water tank, full gas tanks and me sitting at the helm (I'm 170 lbs) the boat lists slightly to port (I don't have a kicker). I've tried to compensate by storing my heavy items on the starboard side. I like this setup. Only thing I would change is when time to replace my batteries I'll go with the AGM's simply because they are maintenance free.
Jay, and you may have already resolved this issue, so it is mentioned for others, the dual battery switch has to be "make before break"--and not all of the switches are of this design. Basically this means that a battery is always connected to the alternator output. If you have no output and still have field current, the diodes will blow on the alternator, and that repair can exceed the cost of a VSR. I used the simple switch for over 40 years and nothing wrong with it, as long as you use precautions. But the vSR saves stopping the boat, going aft, and switching the battery. Another way of doing this is to start the engine on "all" (with electronics off) and when you stop the engine, switch to the house battery only. This preserves the start battery if you run down the house battery during a night at anchor.