22 Classic Angler - Good deal?

Brian -

I don't know anything about the boat, of course, but it does look like a pretty fair deal if the hull is sound. A gentleman on the C-Dog site just made a deal on a 1985 Angler with older two-strokes for right around $10k. Three thousand bucks for a pair of four strokes with lots of years left in them is a pretty safe bet.

The email name for the guy selling this boat sounds familiar. I do believe he is a member here, recently joined.

If the boat is what you're looking for, it is certainly worth a trip to look it over. It's pretty close to home for you, isn't it?

The folks here are pretty good about answering questions and offering support for "wannabes", so no need to lurk in the shadows.

Good luck!
 
Well, Juneau is not that close to Valdez, especially since no road connects Juneau to anywhere you want to be, unless you are an Alaskan politician.
So, if you buy it, how much is it going to cost to get it from Haines to Valdez, or if you don't motor up the inside passage, how much to ship it, preferably on a trailer, from Juneau to Haines, where (if it were me), I would hook it to my pickup.

Other than the logistics of getting the boat out of SE Alaska, it looks like a pretty well cared for boat. Is an angler what you really want, or a cruiser?
 
Does the boat have a trailer? I didn't see it mentioned in the ad.

Check out the owner's next boat, an Olympic 26 at the top of the page with the ad. Compare it with the CD-25 for design similarities. Very interesting. Note the extra steering wheel mounted sideways on the starboard side of the cockpit for use during fishing/trolling .
 
I actually located the ad on the C-Dog site (it's in the "more C-Dorys for sale" section) and this is what it says:

Located in Juneau, Alaska--1983 22' Angler with 1999 Suzuki 4-stroke DF 70 and 1999 4-stroke Suzuki 15hp kicker on bracket. Boat is in good shape and engines run beautifully. Two plastic 18 gal. saddle tanks. Bennet trim tabs. Extended warranty on outboards good until March, 05. Depthfinder, VHF, anchor & chain, downriggers. E-Z Loader bunk trailer. 2002 Survey. $13,000. Will sell without 15 hp kicker for $12,000

I don't know how long it's been for sale, but I sent an e-mail to find out more information.

As far as shipping, it's not too bad to put on the ferry to Valdez. Looking at the rates it would be about $500 just for the boat on a trailer (assuming 25ft with trailer).

Thanks,
Brian
 
I just checked the price from Juneau to Haines. It's just a little over $100. I think I could probably drive from Valdez to Haines for less than $400!!

I'm surprised that RedFox hasn't mentioned all the benefits and wonders of a Classic Angler yet.... :thup
 
I've been in contact with the owner of that boat. It looked good enough for us to make a deal on it last week. I sent him a deposit on it. I'll fly down from Fairbanks next week for a close-up and a test run. If all goes well, we'll finalize it and he'll do just what you have outlined: he'll put it on the ferry and I'll pick it up in Haines.

What I don't know and what I hope someone can help me with is.... what basic problems should I be looking for in the hull of this old-timer? Are there inherent weaknesses that show up over time in even a well-cared boat?

My hopes are high, but if the deal falls through for some reason, I'll post it here so someone else can take a shot at it.

Pat
 
Brian- Thanks for the note about the trailer. Does the boat have a heater? Note the shielding inside the rear starboard corner of the cabin and the Charlie Noble stack on the roof. Was the heater removed? The saddle tanks are a nice addition. Frees up the back of the boat for fishing and equipment.

What follows below is not an attempt to help sell this boat or any other to you, but just some thinking that the consideration of this boat and the other one on the C-Dog site have made me do about the older "Classic" design C-Dorys.

Most of us have the 1987 or later models. Those of us with the Cruisers love them for their interior amenities: galley, sink, dinette, convertible berth, private v-berth, etc. This is a conventional design that sells exactly because it has appeal to the couple/family buyer and requires little modification for most uses. The Angler, the more direct descendant of the Classic CD, is more like the original boat with a larger cockpit and a more spartan interior. The factory now even offers a Sport Fisher (I think that's the term) which is more of a day-use fishing boat without the rear cabin bulkhead and more dedicated seating.

The original Classic design probably seemed a little unorthodox and less immediately appealing to potential customers. The open rear sides of the cockpit and narrow central engine well don't look like a typical purpose designed fishing boat at the boatshow. The interior lacks finished definition of space and is missing the elements of spousal appeal and privacy that create the consensus necessary to write the down payment check. And the absolutely flat, seemingly cut off bottom was to most an enigma that just left most shoppers wondering. Thus the re-design of the boat for 1987.

But, having looked at and considered this design for a good number of years, it makes more and more sense, especially for use as a dedicated fishing machine.

The large and very open cockpit has loads of room and can be modified to accommodate a lot of fishing, crabbing, and other equipment. Rods, nets, livewells, fishboxes, traps, davits, dingies- maybe you can't have them all, but you can have more of them than with a two foot shorter cockpit with closed transom corners.

Internally, the cabin can be modified as needed for your specific needs. Lots of room there to tailor the boat to your fishing/boating plans. A
project person's dream with a few tools and a some time.

The hull's secrets are usually untold. The absolutely flat bottom rocks somewhat less at rest than a shallow v. ( and a lot less than a deep v, which the CD's are not). It planes relatively easily, like the shallow V of the later boats, and sets flat on a mud or sand bottom with the tide out, so you won't want roll out of bed when the tide takes it leave, or need a gimballed stove for breakfast. Plus, it's draft should be even shallower than the shallow V.

Overall, it appears the Classic C-Dory was very carefully and cleverly designed as a utility fishing boat with a lot of adaptability, but not very well understood by the public after the typical quick glance or look at the boatshow or dealer's lot. Probably even a good explanation of the boats qualities and design solutions by a salesman would be met with unsettled indecision unless the prospective buyer had a wealth of knowledge and experiences with fishing boats of this size and purpose.

But that's not to say that we can't today appreciate these Classic C-Dorys for what they are and how they can be used. As a dedicated fishing boat for a person who knows what they're going to do with the vessel and can determine how it fits their needs, it may be a very good fit. Especially if one likes projects and has the time to do the work. As such a boat like this actually provides a second hobby of boat modification that is entertaining in its own right.

If you'd like to see just how far this type of endeavor can lead, look at Red Fox's 1985 Classic C-Dory on the Sound Dreams link on the left menu. Fortunately, the approach can be enjoyed fully at a somewhat less intense level as well.


That just about does it, but I thought I'd just share these ideas with you for your consideration and amusement. Good luck! Joe.
 
Sea Wolf - Thanks for all the good info. I haven't been able to check me e-mail to see what info the owner sent me, but it sounds like Patrout is already working on a deal with him. Good for him, not so good for me. :cry:

Patrout - Good luck on getting the boat, I hope it works out for you. Guess I'll just have to keep looking....
 
Brian,

I have an '87 Angler that I just bought in April.

I'm actually from Juneau, but live in the Puget Sound area now, but my friends up there told me about this boat last week.

My recommendation is that you hold out for a slightly later model. That boat is pretty flat bottomed. C-Dorys pound a decent amount even with the newer hulls. I've been on the older models, and you can take a beating if you are in a hurry.

I got a great deal on my boat, but I think I would prefer the cruiser. Sure I've got more fishing area, which is very nice, but i would trade it for the interior room. If I lived in Valdez, I would definitely get a cruiser, the cruiser cockpit is more than sufficient for fishing, and the added interior cabin is significant. You wanna be warm and dry up there, and you'll spend more time inside, than out.

Just my two cent's worth.

Ross
 
I am sure thankful for the insightful tips about the Angler, in Jeneau. I had spoke to hiim too and was very tempted by the price/motors. If you think the transport for you was bad. I'm in Houston.
Jay Jones [/quote]
 
Hi Ross,

Thanks for the insight about the older flat-bottomed C-Dories. That's why I'll be taking a ride in it next week before we close the deal. The owner said it shouldn't be too hard to find some choppy water around Juneau this time of year. The ride surely can't be any bumpier than my 18' flat-bottomed river runner. (I hope.) Now there's a kidney-bruiser for you.

I know the Angler cabin is shorter than the Cruiser, but compared to a 19 footer, it seems pretty nice. I guess it depends on how many nights in a row you spend on it or how many people you want to take for a ride.

And...maybe later on it will give me a good excuse to campaign for a cruiser. :wink:

Have a good one.
Pat
 
Well, if you decide to back out after taking it for a test run, let me know because I am still interested. - Even after all the "negative" comments!
 
PATROUT":22fdimy0 said:
I've been in contact with the owner of that boat. It looked good enough for us to make a deal on it last week. I sent him a deposit on it. I'll fly down from Fairbanks next week for a close-up and a test run. If all goes well, we'll finalize it and he'll do just what you have outlined: he'll put it on the ferry and I'll pick it up in Haines.

What I don't know and what I hope someone can help me with is.... what basic problems should I be looking for in the hull of this old-timer? Are there inherent weaknesses that show up over time in even a well-cared boat?

My hopes are high, but if the deal falls through for some reason, I'll post it here so someone else can take a shot at it.

Pat

Gentlemen,
Thanks for your interest in my 22' Angler. As Pat alludes, and as I've told a couple of you via e-mail, he has the boat under agreenment. If for some reason, it doesn't meet his conditions, I'll be sure to post a note here to let you know.
Fair winds,
Tom
 
I have read some of your thoughts about the Angler vs Cruiser. we have a 83 angler and we love it .we have just learned not to be in a hurry to get where we are going. If I was in Alaska I would surely want the angler over the cruiser because of the added cockpit room for the SHRIMP pots and CRAB pots and all the lines and bouys.we shrimp and crab with ours down here in WA and I use every sq.inch of my cockpit. I have had 4 shrimp pots,10 crab pots , all the ropes and bouys, plus buckets and shovels for a weekend of shellfishing. there is plenty of room for three of us in the cabin for day trips. would be crowded sleeping tho.
The only thing I would do to enhance my angler cabin would be to put in a heater of sorts.

there, my 2 pesos's worth...lol...
 
Roger,

Thanks for your support. We intend to crab, shrimp and fly fish out of the cockpit of this boat.

Now, do you have a little advice as to what I should look for in the way hull or structure wear on the boat. Do these older Anglers tend to develop weaknesses in any particular spot in your experience?

I sure would appreciate any advice as to what to look for.

Thanks
Pat
 
Patrout
I have a 1985 Angler with 90hp Johnson which I use for fishing on Lake Superior. The boat is bullet-proof. The only balsa core is in the transon so you may want to check the the thru hull drain holes to be sure they are OK. Mine leaked . They are easy to remove to check and can be replaced with new ones for Five Bucks. If they are wet no big deal, contract me and I will tell you what I did.

Their is not a stress crack anywhere. I can fish four big guy's with no trouble even when their all on one side of the boat trying to land a fish. Love the flat bottom cockpit and cabin floor. I have a table built over the motorwell, great for the campstove or fishing tackle, I also removed the cabin table for more interior room.

I run about 25 mph in good water and slow to 12-15 in chop. It's a salt'y looking boat and I get many nice comments. You can't go wrong for the money.

It sleeps two very nice and very easy upkeep. You will love it.

Jack on Sea Otter.
 
Hi Jack,
Whoops, wrong way to start this.

Thanks for the information about the transom. I haven't heard anything yet about structure problems in the older boats except for the transom. I guess there can be some stress at the attachment points to the deck. I don't think there will be anything to worry about with this boat because the owner has sent me photos of any spots that could be trouble and so far they look all up to snuff.

Boating on Lake Superior must be a real adventure when that old wind kicks in.

Pat
 
Roger- I knew that someone with the older Angler would sooner or later speak up and say something about the utility of all that extra room in the cockpit!

Pat- You asked earlier about what to look for in the hull of the older Anglers. That's a very good question, as I've read somewhere that the older flat-bottomed ones have an encapsulated plywood core instead of the small square balsa grid core found in the '87 and later boats.

I'm afraid I can't help you here myself as I don't have a pre-'87. But be sure to get that question answered before you buy the boat.

The difference would be that the balsa grid doesn't communicate water from one piece of wood to the other, while water in plywood spreads out and swells up incredibly fast and with lots of delamination and damage. Witness the damage to transoms made of plywood cores.

On the other hand, we've never really heard anything about problems with these boats, so the problem doesn't happen very much. I'm sure they used the very best marine plywood and have a huge amount of glass and resin on both sides of the wood.

Is there anyone out there with one of these boats that has any thoughts on this???
 
jack, i`m thankful for the info concerning your operation of your angler. :o after reading some of the posts under seamanship, i was beginning to doubt my desire to own a 22 c-dory. i`m still undecided(cruiser/angler), am considering all the arguments for each model. some of the seamanship posts from the columbia bar are to say the least a bit discouraging(sliding into a broach etc.). i realize those conditions are not prevalent here in the mid atlantic area. your comments are encouraging...
gunfyter
 
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