2009 Honda 5 HP as kicker for 16 Cruiser

W

wannabeowner2

New member
Now it is time for kicker options on our projected 2007 16 Cruiser. (Yes, I want a kicker as back-up due to river cruising and my generally abysmal record with outboards over the last thirty years! Also we plan to do a lot of skinny water creeping along for bird watching and think that a kicker might be better in these situations.)

The dealer has offered a new 2009 Honda 5 HP mounted on a jack plate and test run for 1780.00. Or I can buy whatever model and they will do the same, including providing the jack plate for 350.00.

It appears that the Honda is the better way to go except that I find poor to mediocre reviews of earlier models of the 5 HP here on the forum. Has Honda improved things lately or should I still go with a different kicker? If so, which one would the gang recommend?

5 HP is the rated limit we can hang on the stern of the 16.

Thanks once again in advance for your collective advice. This group is great.

Steve

PS Or I CAN postpone the whole thing and mount the jack plate/ kicker myself later on. I'm a big do-it-yourselfer around the home and I no doubt will do the same on the boat. But would feel better about having something like this professionally done. Am I right on this?
 
Steve
Mounting a jack plate and kicker is a very doable project. Should take less than two hours to do. The hardest part of the whole thing is getting the nerve to drill that first hole in your new boat. just measure and test fit before bit touches gelcoat.

Chuck
Bootleg Hooch
 
Steve, on my former 16' Cruiser, I had an 8 HP Honda kicker mounted (without a jack plate, thereby saving the cost of a jack plate) next to my 50 HP Honda and it worked well. (Also had a tie rod between the two engines so I could steer from the helm when running the kicker alone). If you look at picture #19 in the Sea Shift album you'll see a distant picture of the two engines. (I would think that going with an 8 HP might be a better choice for overcoming any river or tidal currents etc.).....just my .02 cents worth.
 
Well, I have a 2006 Honda 5 hp that hangs off the port side of the transom, no jackplate. It will push the boat, loaded and with two 200+ lb people, all day long at 5 mph and not use hardly any gas. If it sat too long without running there was some difficulty starting, so now I run it at least once a month. Regarding the 'jackplate' even though I don't have one, I think it's a good idea, as the motor on the transom does drag in the water very slightly when up to speed on the main engine.
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Photo_0002.jpg
 
wannabeowner2":36e5pnmc said:
... Also we plan to do a lot of skinny water creeping along for bird watching and think that a kicker might be better in these situations.)

The dealer has offered a new 2009 Honda 5 HP mounted on a jack plate and test run for 1780.00. Or I can buy whatever model and they will do the same, including providing the jack plate for 350.00...
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Steve, I am not that familiar with CD 16s, but have you considered just mounting the kicker on the transom? I suspect that having a Jack plate might make it a little tougher to use a steering tie bar so that you can steer seated from the helm. We have had both the classic and the new version of the Honda 8 on our CD 22, and mounted each to the right of the 90. With that configuration, we could either tiller steer, or hook up the tie bar and stay out of the rain.

All things considered, even though I like the smaller Honda engines, I prefer the Yamaha 8hp high thrust. My vanity got in the way, and I decided to have matching paint colors hanging off the back of the boat. The Yamaha is the smoothest engine for trolling that I have ever used. It is also very quiet, as is the Honda.

Steve
 
Steve,

I had a 16 footer previously, and, like Sea Shift, had a port side Honda 8 kicker mounted directly on the transom with a removable tie-bar connecting it to a Honda 40/50 main. It worked well, but was a tight fit. If they are still available, get the "classic" cowling shape on the 8 hp. It will fit more easily next to the main. I also found it necessary to use a tensioning strap to get the maximum tilt on the kicker in order to keep the skeg from dragging in the water at certain planing speeds when running on the main with the kicker up.

I'd recommend going with the direct mount first and seeing how you like it. I think it would be easier to switch to a separate mount later, than to go in the other direction.

I don't know about the 8hp exceeding the weight (?) limit for the 16 footer. That would be news to me, but I guess something you should check into. (What's the weight of the 5hp plus the mounting bracket, versus the weight of the 8 mounted directly to the transom?)

I had a 5 hp Honda for a while, but found it noisier, harder to start, and obviously less able to push the boat than the 8.
 
Bill,

Did you have any issues with your Classic 8 where the throttle was touchy, and the rpm would jump around when tiller steering? Mine did that, plus ran very cold. I had to go to hotter plugs and a hotter thermostat to get it to troll with out having a fuel (unburned) build up in the crankcase. I have had none of that with the new style 8.

Steve
 
Great opinions that are much appreciated.

I guess I liked the Honda option both for vanity looks plus it is an easy, turnkey option. Given Honda's reputation for quality in virtually everything they have produced I was HOPING that they had cleaned up the issues noted above on the 2009 model. Anyone know for sure???

I believe the dealer's concern is not weight but rather the boat's 55 HP "rating". If I install the motor everything I have read says the 8 HP Yamaha is the way to go. I assume it would be OK for a private owner to exceed the rating by 3 HP?

Things get a little complicated on this boat re: mounting the kicker. The starboard side has a factory swim step. The port side has an electric anchor winch already mounted so that is why I assume the dealer says to use a jack plate.

So many choices ...

Steve
 
The 16' "Sea Shift" kicker was mounted on the transom on the starboard side and the factory swim step was on the port side. With me sitting at the helm and the kicker on the same side the vessel obviously leaned a bit on the starboard side. However, with two passengers sitting on the port side, the vessel evened out. Yes, the skeg on the kicker did drag in the water, however I just accepted those "lack of streamlining" features and thoroughly enjoyed the vessel.
 
wannabeowner2":2vx4m4h3 said:
The port side has an electric anchor winch already mounted so that is why I assume the dealer says to use a jack plate.
Steve
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Steve, I'm confused by the above.....are you saying that there is an electric anchor winch mounted on the transom? If so, I'm trying to figure out why?.
 
Regarding the 55HP rating. I assume you will not be running both at the same time. A moot point. Weight would be a bigger issue, and I (who doesn't own a 16 - yet) doubt that's much of a factor
 
Some photos of the transom of this boat would be helpful. Does he mean a true jack plate, which is used to get the engine higher in the water? Or does he mean an auxillary motor mount, which will pivot up and allow the engine to be further from the water, and is also signficantly further aft. I also would like to see the electric anchor winch. I assume that you know that it is not a good idea to anchor the 16 by the stern, because of possibility of swamping.

I don't see any difference between using a 8 hp and a 5 hp kicker as far as the weight. As far as HP, I use a 3 hp on the C D 25--it is slow (4 or so knots in calm water) but will get the boat home.
 
DaveS":1n6piro6 said:
Yes, the skeg on the kicker did drag in the water, however I just accepted those "lack of streamlining" features and thoroughly enjoyed the vessel.
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I certainly agree with you about that. Also, somewhere along the line I was advised to keep it in gear so that when dragging the prop it wouldn't turn. Is this sound advice?
MartyP
 
Wandering Sagebrush":pkyrwnh0 said:
Bill,

Did you have any issues with your Classic 8 where the throttle was touchy, and the rpm would jump around when tiller steering? Mine did that, plus ran very cold. I had to go to hotter plugs and a hotter thermostat to get it to troll with out having a fuel (unburned) build up in the crankcase. I have had none of that with the new style 8.

Steve
Click to expand...

Sagebrush Steve,

I didn't have those problems, but then I really didn't have the 8 for that long, or use it that much. I had a 5 originally, but it was stolen after a couple of years. After I replace it with the 8, it was only a little over a year before I sold the 16 footer and got my current boat. I will say that cold starts after a week or two of sitting in the winter could require several pulls and choke adjustments.

I could easily be wrong about this, but I believe the "classic" design was a cosmetic difference only. I bought mine in 2003 or 2004. I was told, at any rate, that it was internally, mechanically, identical to the other 4stroke 8hps with the rounded, more "modern" engine cover.

Wannabeowner Steve,

Bob is right, you will need to look carefully at placement depending on what else is hanging off your transom. I had a swim step on the starboard side, but nothing on the port. I also agree with RJD Wannabe that combined horse power is probably not a real world concern. I think weight is the issue, both total pounds and distribution. My prime reason for putting the kicker on the port side was weight placement. Given the likelihood of me being alone on the boat, or even being on the boat with my wife (who probably won't even see this, but does in fact weigh next to nothing), it made sense to put the kicker on the port side.
 
I just checked on the "classic" versus "new" Honda 8hp 4-stroke. According to information on Les' EQMarine website, there are in fact two different engines. So perhaps I had what is now the "updated" older model. At any rate it was a good engine, and the older engine cover style definitely fit into the space next to the main engine, and allowed turning without interference when the engines were uncoupled. I guess the lesson continues to be, do your research and check fit carefully.
 
NORO LIM":1cwuhl1d said:
... I could easily be wrong about this, but I believe the "classic" design was a cosmetic difference only. I bought mine in 2003 or 2004. I was told, at any rate, that it was internally, mechanically, identical to the other 4stroke 8hps with the rounded, more "modern" engine cover....
Click to expand...

Bill, I could be easily wrong, too, but I believe that the difference in the engines is more than cosmetic. Or so I have been told. My modern (vs the classic) has an oil filter, and so far has exhibited none of the bad habits that the classic had. I tend to run the fuel out of the carburetor each time I shut the engine down for any length of time, and yes it is hard to start after that. Don't make the mistake of trying to pull start the engine with it in gear. I ruptured a bunch of blood vessels in my fingers as the handle pulled through. It's no fun fishing with fingers the size of sausages.

Regards,

Steve
 
I have a 2 hp and it really vibrates. I doubt if the 5 is much better. Better to find a twin. If I was doing it I would look at a yamaha as they get generally the best reviews for that size. But there are a lot of the old evinrude twin 2 cycles around in 4 hp. Those engines, although 2 cycle, were extremely quiet, smooth, and really light. They were also 2 cylinder. I have been thinking about looking for one. They usually sell for under $400 and at that cost you don't need to get a lot of use out of them for the money. I had one years ago and it was a super motor. The one benefit of the Honda 5 is you can get one with a small alternator.
 
OK, here's what I'm thinking of doing:

1. Asking the dealer what the heck a 12 V anchor winch is doing anyway mounted on the stern.

2. If they'll pull it then I'll get a short shaft 5 HP Tohatsu and mount it myself. 1135.00 vs 1780.00 plus the reviews are universally positive. I'll try to go without the bracket as many have suggested. (I can live with the non-matching color.)

IF I wind up with the elusive 22 will I still be able to use the short shaft Tohatsu?

Thanks for all the help.

Steve

PS Or if I decide to go with a 8 HP how much trouble would I get into going 3 HP over the "limit" on the transom?
 
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