I believe that the C-Dories made from 2003 to 2007 are the ones you should most be concerned with. Around that time C-Dory went from 4 boats a month to 20 plus boats a month and added a swing shift and another production facility. They had some new inexperienced workers, lower quality materials and a get it out the door mentality while trying to become a Bayliner type manufacturer of a niche boat. You should be OK with a 2009. I think they slowed down and built a higher quality product with a more experienced workforce at that time due to the slow economy. The survey with someone who knows C-Dories would be the way to go.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Who might Bill be?? The green stuff almost looks like the fake grass stuff.Albie Back":3eur8ooy said:
Don and Brenda
New member
Bill was the sales manager at Outboat motor store on Oakland
Pat Anderson
New member
Sorry, this absolutely incorrect information, Forrest. Between 2003 - 2007 (and before of course) C-Dory had the right people in the company doing a great job. There were some growing pains in the move from Kent to Auburn, of course, but I spent quite a lot of time at both factories during the build of my two boats, a 2003 CD22 in Kent and a 2005 CD25 in Auburn. Both great experiences. The company during this period stood behind the boats and fixed virtually all problems, including replacing a couple of boats they could not fix. Jeff Messmer and Andrew Custis were both with C-Dory during some or all of this period. There was no better customer service available.
Enter Tom Leytham (and exit Jeff Messmer and Andrew Custis), and the company simply went down the drain. Reynolds and Leythan tried to "Baylinerize" C-Dorys, from the manufacturing to the marketing. Say what you want about the molded interior, what they did was dramatically cheapen the boat. They dropped the best rigger, EQ Marine, and tried to sell them like Bayliners - lining them up along side the freeway at Lake Union Sea Ray. They shoved boats down the throat of Lake Union Sea Ray that they couldn't sell, because C-Dory buyers don't by boats that way - "Oh, honey, look! I want the blue one!" LUSR dropped them. Leytham was the mastermind behind the abomination of a boat called the C-Dory 29, which is still sitting at Master Marine in Mount Vernon. After the Leytham fiasco, a series of subsequent owners of the company or should I say assets of the company struggled to revive the brand. Then of course the Great Recession hit, and Triton is trying to hang on. They are still building the Leytham C-Dory, but at least they are interacting and trying to understand what changes they need to make to get things going again. Look for the posts by sjboysen from Triton on this.
Jeff and Andrew are now two of the four people responsible for the fantastic success of the Ranger Tugs (the other two of course are Dave and John Livingston). Customer service is the name of the game, and nobody does it like these gentlemen.
Hence an older C-Dory is going to be a better boat than a 2008 or later C-Dory. The advice for a survey is sound. None of them have a warranty, so you basically pay your money and take your chances.
Enter Tom Leytham (and exit Jeff Messmer and Andrew Custis), and the company simply went down the drain. Reynolds and Leythan tried to "Baylinerize" C-Dorys, from the manufacturing to the marketing. Say what you want about the molded interior, what they did was dramatically cheapen the boat. They dropped the best rigger, EQ Marine, and tried to sell them like Bayliners - lining them up along side the freeway at Lake Union Sea Ray. They shoved boats down the throat of Lake Union Sea Ray that they couldn't sell, because C-Dory buyers don't by boats that way - "Oh, honey, look! I want the blue one!" LUSR dropped them. Leytham was the mastermind behind the abomination of a boat called the C-Dory 29, which is still sitting at Master Marine in Mount Vernon. After the Leytham fiasco, a series of subsequent owners of the company or should I say assets of the company struggled to revive the brand. Then of course the Great Recession hit, and Triton is trying to hang on. They are still building the Leytham C-Dory, but at least they are interacting and trying to understand what changes they need to make to get things going again. Look for the posts by sjboysen from Triton on this.
Jeff and Andrew are now two of the four people responsible for the fantastic success of the Ranger Tugs (the other two of course are Dave and John Livingston). Customer service is the name of the game, and nobody does it like these gentlemen.
Hence an older C-Dory is going to be a better boat than a 2008 or later C-Dory. The advice for a survey is sound. None of them have a warranty, so you basically pay your money and take your chances.
forrest":akca4232 said:
Matt Gurnsey
New member
All of the 22 Anglers with the bulkhead option have the Decraguard interior. A mold for the Angler interior was never made.
22 Anglers without the bulkhead have the same glassed in components as the 19 Angler.
I'm not sure about the comment concerning 2009 boats. All of the boat we got out of Fluid were well built boats and we have had almost no problems with them.
22 Anglers without the bulkhead have the same glassed in components as the 19 Angler.
I'm not sure about the comment concerning 2009 boats. All of the boat we got out of Fluid were well built boats and we have had almost no problems with them.
Thanks Pat for clarifying the quality of boats built in 2005. Like you and Patty, our boat is a 2005.
I'm somewhat amused as to how it's now become common perception that boats built between 2003 - 2007 are of lower quality.
I can only speak for myself but our 2005 22' Cruiser is just fine thank you. Maybe we've been lucky but I feel that our boat is built solidly and I have yet to find major "quality" issues on our boat.
Sorry if I sound defensive but "generally speaking" doesn't apply to us. We love our boat!
Peter
C-Dancer
22' Cruiser
I'm somewhat amused as to how it's now become common perception that boats built between 2003 - 2007 are of lower quality.
I can only speak for myself but our 2005 22' Cruiser is just fine thank you. Maybe we've been lucky but I feel that our boat is built solidly and I have yet to find major "quality" issues on our boat.
Sorry if I sound defensive but "generally speaking" doesn't apply to us. We love our boat!
Peter
C-Dancer
22' Cruiser
A
Anonymous
Guest
I have a 2008 made in Sept. 2007, 22 Cruiser. It appears to be very well made (and believe you me I've nosewheeled this thing from end to end and top to bottom). I tried to get as much info as I could from this site prior to purchase. In the end it all really didn't affect my decision.
I like the flat floor in the cockpit (just like my previous Arima) and I am monitering it for cracks at the bulkhead or elsewhere. I like the molded fibreglass cabinets, very clean look and added strength to the hull.
From the info I gleaned here, there were isolated incidences of major problems no matter what years your talking about. The balsa bottom can be problematic if penetations are not sealed.
Specific comments about what was wrong with which boats would be most helpful. Sometimes I feel insulted the way people talk about my vintage of boat. :monty
I like the flat floor in the cockpit (just like my previous Arima) and I am monitering it for cracks at the bulkhead or elsewhere. I like the molded fibreglass cabinets, very clean look and added strength to the hull.
From the info I gleaned here, there were isolated incidences of major problems no matter what years your talking about. The balsa bottom can be problematic if penetations are not sealed.
Specific comments about what was wrong with which boats would be most helpful. Sometimes I feel insulted the way people talk about my vintage of boat. :monty
Albie Back
New member
Hi -
This is exactly why I enjoy this site. 99% of the threads would get hijacked and go on a tangent. I'm sure the comments on quality was not mean to be in malice, but rather the c-brats' way of looking out after the own or "potential" own. The fact that there is no warranty warrants the comments. Even when the threads go on a tangent, you learn something new everyday.
Now, to get this thread back on track, Nick wanted comments on the eqpt and price. For price, other gave you sage advice regarding a survey. Besides that, its a buyers market so it doesnt hurt to haggle.
Equiptment:
gps/chartplotter - cant tell the make and model from pictures but it appears to be Raymarine. Get the details of the gps and start another thread if you want opinions ( I dare you to open another can of worms...LOL). Basic gps/chart is fine.
depth sounder - always good to know your depth
FF - no mention of fishfinder so you may need to purchase one for your fishing needs. Hopefully, you can just add to the existing setup.
Radar - Consider adding radar as the fog will roll in unannounced along the coastline and in the delta.
trim tabs - nice....
SS short radar arch - nice place to display your rod/reel.
After all this has settled consider redundant VHF, backup GPS, spare fuses, spare t-stat........opps I went on a tangent LOL.
Hope this helps
This is exactly why I enjoy this site. 99% of the threads would get hijacked and go on a tangent. I'm sure the comments on quality was not mean to be in malice, but rather the c-brats' way of looking out after the own or "potential" own. The fact that there is no warranty warrants the comments. Even when the threads go on a tangent, you learn something new everyday.
Now, to get this thread back on track, Nick wanted comments on the eqpt and price. For price, other gave you sage advice regarding a survey. Besides that, its a buyers market so it doesnt hurt to haggle.
Equiptment:
gps/chartplotter - cant tell the make and model from pictures but it appears to be Raymarine. Get the details of the gps and start another thread if you want opinions ( I dare you to open another can of worms...LOL). Basic gps/chart is fine.
depth sounder - always good to know your depth
FF - no mention of fishfinder so you may need to purchase one for your fishing needs. Hopefully, you can just add to the existing setup.
Radar - Consider adding radar as the fog will roll in unannounced along the coastline and in the delta.
trim tabs - nice....
SS short radar arch - nice place to display your rod/reel.
After all this has settled consider redundant VHF, backup GPS, spare fuses, spare t-stat........opps I went on a tangent LOL.
Hope this helps
A
Anonymous
Guest
OK then.
Buy it!
It is worth 39, but if you get it for 35 you dun good.
Buy it!
It is worth 39, but if you get it for 35 you dun good.
journey on
New member
I'm not sure of the chronology that Pat mentioned, since I wasn't familiar with the people who ran the plant. And I don't remember names worth cr**.
I bought my C-Dory in 2005, as did Pat and both were manufactured under the direction of the family (and I thought their name was Reynolds) that bought the company from the original owners (Toland?) Jeff Messimer was the VP for sales and a nicer man I never met. Scott Matthews was the salesman for Marbin Marine, remember him? When we were picking up the boat, I asked how many boats they had to push out the door to break even. Jeff told me about 70, which means that the Bayliner mode was in operation then. He left shortly thereafter; apparently both wise and nice.
One question: who is Livingston?
I had the common teething problems with the C-25 of that era. What puzzled me is that, first they said that they had no knowledge of any such problem. When I next showed up at the factory, they knew about and then fixed them all. They were all sloppy workmanship, such as the caulking hole in the anchor locker which allowed water to leak in. They seemed incapable of fixing those type of problems on the production line, even though they were minor. That may be one reason that they had to sell the business. I had a crack in the aft transome (not all the boats fault I may add,) and they paid to have it fixed. So my opinion was (and is) that I had a well built boat and I'm happier than anything that we got it.
Next thing I know, they're sold to Fluid something and then the molds are leased to Seasport, which is now Triton. I never heard of any quality problems in any of this. They made some changes that I thought were good (such as the molded interior) and the old(er) timers didn't like, but that's up to the guy building them. Some boats were replaced, but that happened several owners ago. I haven't heard of any problems recently, and feel free to correct me.
So here is a guy who find a great deal on a 2009 22 and he wants to buy it. I agree with having a survey, but specifically what's wrong with a 2009? Anybody have examples? Not the molded interior, I've had a bunch of them and I think it's great. Any items that would break, collapse or fail to work?
Boris
I bought my C-Dory in 2005, as did Pat and both were manufactured under the direction of the family (and I thought their name was Reynolds) that bought the company from the original owners (Toland?) Jeff Messimer was the VP for sales and a nicer man I never met. Scott Matthews was the salesman for Marbin Marine, remember him? When we were picking up the boat, I asked how many boats they had to push out the door to break even. Jeff told me about 70, which means that the Bayliner mode was in operation then. He left shortly thereafter; apparently both wise and nice.
One question: who is Livingston?
I had the common teething problems with the C-25 of that era. What puzzled me is that, first they said that they had no knowledge of any such problem. When I next showed up at the factory, they knew about and then fixed them all. They were all sloppy workmanship, such as the caulking hole in the anchor locker which allowed water to leak in. They seemed incapable of fixing those type of problems on the production line, even though they were minor. That may be one reason that they had to sell the business. I had a crack in the aft transome (not all the boats fault I may add,) and they paid to have it fixed. So my opinion was (and is) that I had a well built boat and I'm happier than anything that we got it.
Next thing I know, they're sold to Fluid something and then the molds are leased to Seasport, which is now Triton. I never heard of any quality problems in any of this. They made some changes that I thought were good (such as the molded interior) and the old(er) timers didn't like, but that's up to the guy building them. Some boats were replaced, but that happened several owners ago. I haven't heard of any problems recently, and feel free to correct me.
So here is a guy who find a great deal on a 2009 22 and he wants to buy it. I agree with having a survey, but specifically what's wrong with a 2009? Anybody have examples? Not the molded interior, I've had a bunch of them and I think it's great. Any items that would break, collapse or fail to work?
Boris
Well, our boat is just a simple 16C but, it did come out of the mold in the year of our Lord 2009. You can ask my wife just how picky I'am. It took all day to see trial and inspect before signing papers. It is kept in our shop when not on the water. I have made numerous changes including moving batt.'s, installing an anchor locker in forward flotation chamber, installing permanant fuel tank under v-birth, in-gunnel rod holders and of course, electronics. What I'm saying is, there is not much of this boat that I have not seen- up close and personal. One of my concerns before purchase was if they built the "cheap 16" with as much care as the bigger, more expensive models. At this point in time, there is nothing in the construction of my 2009 that I'm unhappy with. As far as the liner goes? I can see advantages either way. A liner can be a pain when doing projects but sure cleans up nicely. That 22A sure looks like a fine boat, wish I could be in the market for one just like it! Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting anything about boats made before or after mine.
I respectively disagree Pat. By your own admission C-Dory had problems those years. You stated, "The company during this period stood behind the boats and fixed virtually all problems, including replacing a couple of boats they could not fix". How bad is the construction on a boat that the boat can't even be fixed? Look back at most of the complaints from owners on this site and it's from those years. I would be wary of any boat made on swing shift as bad things always happen on swing shift in a factory setting. That is where your newest and most inexperienced workers start when they first go to work for a company. I stand by my comments.
Forrest
Forrest
2009 was the year C-Dory was sold, or what ever happened.
The "ownership" changed. They struggled to keep going but were
not able too. I said if I were buying a 2009 I would have a survey
done, and I would. I don't think 2009's are bad boats, not at all. But, because of the changes going on, I would feel much better with a survey
done. Kind of like not wanting to buy a car built on a Monday, sort of. I also said if I were buying any used C-Dory, I would have a survey done. Are all used C-Dorys suspect? Heck no.
Robbi
The "ownership" changed. They struggled to keep going but were
not able too. I said if I were buying a 2009 I would have a survey
done, and I would. I don't think 2009's are bad boats, not at all. But, because of the changes going on, I would feel much better with a survey
done. Kind of like not wanting to buy a car built on a Monday, sort of. I also said if I were buying any used C-Dory, I would have a survey done. Are all used C-Dorys suspect? Heck no.
Robbi
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
forrest":36zeyrir said:
Forrest, I am aware of one boat that CDory replaced but really did not require it. They did it to keep the customer satisfied. I am pretty critical of the previous owners, but there are some instances where they went above and beyond. BTW,I believe the boat that I am referring to is the same one that the Factory Boys subsequently used for the photos in the big waves at the mouth of the Columbia.
Don and Brenda
New member
Wow, this post has really changed from 1 guy asking about a particular boat, hope we did not scare him away, as these great boats, even though like with any manufacturing one can come out of the mold wrong so to speak. The 22 angler he is looking at looks like a good deal and like anyone of us would have the boat looked at closely and may get a survey done for a little piece of mind. When I bought my 2007 last year I did not get a survey and having a bit more knowledge now would most likely get a survey just for that piece of mind. I love my boat no matter what year it was produced and who made it and the fact that it does not have a hull warranty does not change my mind or bother me.
So lets get out on the water and have fun!
So lets get out on the water and have fun!
A
Anonymous
Guest
I think I am gonna stick with my 13' Valco, (kidding). I am going to check it out Saturday but in no hurry to buy. I might go down there and see the C-Dory in person and might say forget but really strongly doubt that. I have been looking at C-Dory's for sale for the last couple months and yes this is a good deal it seems, especially when it is about 2 hours from where I live but there seems to be a few good deals out there right now.
I have recieved really good advice so far on buying a boat from some people on this board and highly appreciate it. As we all know this is a big purchase and really do not expect to come home with a boat Saturday. I do have another person in the decision making on this (guess) and will need financing as well which should not be a problem but who knows.
I will evetually have a C-Dory and that will be a happy day. I do know now that it will be a 22' but I will need to keep it stored somewhere else besides the driveway which is probably good. I plan to keep it stored indoors, cost is about $135.00 a month on one place but of course going to keep checking on this.
Cheers everybody!!!
I have recieved really good advice so far on buying a boat from some people on this board and highly appreciate it. As we all know this is a big purchase and really do not expect to come home with a boat Saturday. I do have another person in the decision making on this (guess) and will need financing as well which should not be a problem but who knows.
I will evetually have a C-Dory and that will be a happy day. I do know now that it will be a 22' but I will need to keep it stored somewhere else besides the driveway which is probably good. I plan to keep it stored indoors, cost is about $135.00 a month on one place but of course going to keep checking on this.
Cheers everybody!!!
Jack in Alaska
New member
nickyn99,
Best of luck to you and your 1st mate in your search for just the right C-Dory at the right price made in the right year, what ever it happens to be.
My CD is a 2005 ProAngler 26' which is kind of a one off or "bastard stepchild" as I tell people. I learned in this thread that 2005 models were good/bad or ???. All I know is that after having mine for 18 months it is a sweet boat and I like it a lot. As I bought it in Florida sight unseen I had it surveyed ($500)by an official marine surveyor there and relied on his inspection. He did an ok job but did miss some things. Nothing serious that I could not correct myself.
Again...........good luck.
Jack in Alaska
Best of luck to you and your 1st mate in your search for just the right C-Dory at the right price made in the right year, what ever it happens to be.
My CD is a 2005 ProAngler 26' which is kind of a one off or "bastard stepchild" as I tell people. I learned in this thread that 2005 models were good/bad or ???. All I know is that after having mine for 18 months it is a sweet boat and I like it a lot. As I bought it in Florida sight unseen I had it surveyed ($500)by an official marine surveyor there and relied on his inspection. He did an ok job but did miss some things. Nothing serious that I could not correct myself.
Again...........good luck.
Jack in Alaska
patrick and linda
New member
surveys are over rated, very simular to whole house inspections! i'm talking about smaller vessels, under 40'. read the disclosure in any survey. they are not mechanics, not electricians, not plumbers. they look for the obvious, just as any knowledgeable boater would.
they generally don't start engines, generator, stoves, or electronics, don't flush heads, or turn on faucets, only note same, if any and the general condition. the look at the hull and note the condition, if any spongy area are found, that are accessible to them, they also, cover their posterior by indicating boat has bottom and thus could only see condition of paint on hull and not necessarily any damaged covered by said paint!
i recently purchased a boat, did not pay for a survey, but rather did a personal lengthy inspection, had check list in hand and started everything, noted condition of everything and did a very thorough sea trail. to date i have not found any surprises.
pat
Fan-A-Sea
they generally don't start engines, generator, stoves, or electronics, don't flush heads, or turn on faucets, only note same, if any and the general condition. the look at the hull and note the condition, if any spongy area are found, that are accessible to them, they also, cover their posterior by indicating boat has bottom and thus could only see condition of paint on hull and not necessarily any damaged covered by said paint!
i recently purchased a boat, did not pay for a survey, but rather did a personal lengthy inspection, had check list in hand and started everything, noted condition of everything and did a very thorough sea trail. to date i have not found any surprises.
pat
Fan-A-Sea
A
Anonymous
Guest
I work with a guy that has a really nice sailboat and when the time comes to buy he will be my surveyor and will be free minus some bbq and beer. He has done work on a couple of his boats and is pretty knowledgeable on what to look for.
Of all the posts I have read here and other sites of people who have hired a surveyor, it seems a few if not more always say he did a pretty good job but missed a couple things. My buddy will be just as good I think granted I buy something within driving distance of course.
Nick
Of all the posts I have read here and other sites of people who have hired a surveyor, it seems a few if not more always say he did a pretty good job but missed a couple things. My buddy will be just as good I think granted I buy something within driving distance of course.
Nick