2006 Suzuki DF140 RPM Racing

W

Westie

New member
Hi there,
Looking for some advice on my Suzuki DF140. I have twins on my Tomcat and the port engine RPMs seems to race high occasionally. This has never happened on the other engine.

I thought this went away once I changed the fuel separator but now Im not sure. This seems to happen only when I'm heading into a large swell.

I can hear the engine ramp up RPMs and the gage shows it, but there is no change in speed.

Anyone experience this?

Also, off topic but, does anyone know where the fuse for anchor wench is? I had no power on the actor this weekend. The wires were tight but I could not trace them to a fuse. Any suggestions are appreciated.
 
Any chance the port side prop is ventilating heading into the swell at an angle? You could try attacking the same size swell from the opposite angle to see if the starboard engine revs up.
 
"I can hear the engine ramp up RPMs and the gage shows it, but there is no change in speed" agree is the textbook definition of prop ventilation. Now you just need to find the cause.
My sounder grew a huge oyster in under 8 weeks, which caused so much disturbed water that the engine couldn't 'bite' any nonfrothy water. The heavy network sounder actually torqued/broke right off the transom mounting bracket and was a few inches in front of that prop at 35 MPH. I'm lucky it didn't wrap around the prop and result in a situation where Service Guy would say, " Now, how exactly how did your entire Garmin N2k network backbone get wrapped around this prop?"
I'm too embarrassed to post the pictures.
Even a bit of hull slime/fouling can do it, or engine trim gauge off (a rheostat under the ram in saltwater), loading/trim/balance issues, even almost 'tiny' prop dings in just the right spot.
Very unlikely, improper engine mounting hole choice.
Get the prop spec'ed at your fav prop shop.
Trim down 100% by sound (not by gauge).
Obnoxious, but not dangerous and harmless to engine.

The windlass will often have no fuse but a thermal circuit breaker near the helm (mine is behind the helm seat and not labeled) and another or mega-fuse near the battery selector switch mounted on the transom.
Good luck!
John
 
My Tom Cat had the 60 amp thermal breaker on the forward part of the galley, just outboard of the helm seat--I suspect similar to John's. There may also be another breaker back by the battery on the Starboard side. The boats were not consistently wired.
 
The rubber hub in the prop on that engine could be slipping under the extra load of climbing the swell. Try a different prop or have a prop shop check the props for bad hubs.
 
You guys are awesome. Thanks for all the advice.

Since I've never noticed it on starboard, sounds like a mechanical issue. I typically run with the engines trimmed up about two seconds after hitting the stop down. I don't have trim gages so it is by sound only. I know the trim is not exactly the same speed on both but I thought but it was negligible. I will check that next time.

I was in 10' swell by 16 sec this weekend and it was and issue on every climb. Coming in with a following sea, it never raced.... wasn't a good feeling!

Larry - what is the rubber hub?

This has been intermittent so probably ventilation.
 
Rubber hub...

Propellers are made of three parts. The outer aluminum or stainless steel part with the blades, a bronze or stainless hub that has the splines and fits to the prop shaft, and a rubber sleeve that goes between the hub and the outer part with the blades.

If a prop hits something the outer part spins or slips on the rubber sleeve. The can prevent the shock from being transferred to the shafts and gears in the gearbox. With age, heat, or usage, the rubber sleeve can begin to slip in normal use or when a heavier load (like climbing a wave) is applied. Usually the slippage gets worse over time. A new hub can be installed by a prop shop.

Images.

propeller_fit_guide_clip_image002.jpg


vortex.gif
 
Hi Guys - I'm back from vacation and finally made it to the slip today to check on things.

I'm sure the engine issue is the rubber hub. Is there any chance I could repair this in the slip?

For the winless, I found and checked all the fuses...no issues. I got a multimeter on the switch and could not read voltage on the switch side. Anyone experience a bad switch before? If I checked and rechecked properly, it has to be a bad switch.

A new issue I found, I have a bilge pump in the port and starboard bilge but only port has a float switch. I assume I know the answer here, but should I install a float switch on starboard? The inspector found this pump faulty and the dealer replaced it....disappointing they didn't include a float switch.

The tomcat seem to get a fair amount of water in the bilge after some rain. I know a little comes from the winless but I'm thinking some is coming in from the fish boxes. Any other ideas are welcome.

Again - thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me. This board has been great and I am very thankful for everyone sharing experiences.
 
Yes many have had a "bad windless switch". This is assuming that you do not have a relay I believe that all of these now come with a relay--15 years ago some did not.

I would put the relay in, and a new switch. The amperage draw is too much for the switch.

The prop can be removed in the slip--take the prop off, take the prop to a prop shop and have the hub checked and replaced if necessary. However I would not rule out ventilation for some reason, since this slippage is not consistent. Generally once you spin a hub, it either gets worse, or to the point where that engine is slipping most of the time when under load.

Two suggestions--put in trim gauges, not that expensive for the Suzuki 140 (I have a single 140 on my Caracal Cat, and feel the trim gauge is important because the 140's in a single engine, cat tend to ventilate easily precise trim is important.

The other suggestion is to have a second set of props in the boat, incase you ding a prop, or spin a hub.

Generally the cats do best with a 4 blade prop, to give stern lift.

Do you have counter rotating engines? If so, which side is the clockwise rotation engine?
 
If you remove the prop in the slip, be careful to not lose tools or parts into the drink. It's cold this time of year? It is very easy to pull the prop in the slip, just as easy to drop something... :xseek
 
On the engines--the way yours are mounted is the preferred way for cats, and tends to give more stern lift. Not specifically related to the racing engine.

The switch. This is the switch which would have come with the windlass. I believe that this windlass has been discontinued, and basically replaced by the 700. Many parts are interchangeable, including the motor. The motor is rated for 40 amps.

The newer 700's are being shipped with the contactor or relay. The switch is lighter duty (since it only carries an amp or so, instead of the 40 amps which the heavier duty switch carries. I cannot find any rating specs. on the Lewmar LEW 0052519. I have had one of the windlasses with that switch. I was careful to be sure and not engage it if there was a significant load on the windlass--because of the load. It lasted the time I owned the boat.

Good chance you will get as good longevity out of the new switch as you got out of the first one. The last 3 boats I have had with the 700 windlass, I put in the "Contactor".
Windlass Control Solenoid for Sprint 600, 1000, Horizon 400, 600, 600F, 900, 900F, Pro 700, 1000
Click to expand...

140207.jpg


Reading the two reviews on the West Marine web site one said it failed in short order, the other said it did well.... The contactor has much larger points, it is made to engage and carry the full current up to 60+ amps. The switch will work.
 
Thanks again. I rarely anchor so I'm not too concerned about working the switch too hard. My preference would be to just replace it for now.

Lawman's website says this works with all winlass models. I prefer the look...do you think this would be fine and the cost is basically the same.

http://www.lewmar.com/node/11540?v=24999
 
That appears to be identical to the switch I use to activate the contactor on my boat...Not sure what the specs are. See below:

Going thru the current manuals it appears the Lewmar manual for the ProSport show has replaced the Sprint 500. This manual shows 500 Series Control Switch 0052519 as the proper switch, if you don't use the contactor (which appears to be optional)/

Here is the ProSport manual

Looking at the Manual for the H 700 series. They use the "rocker switch Lewmar swith 68000593" to activate the contactor, not directly as an up or down switch in line. The 700 requires a 50 amp breaker. The rocker switch only requires a 3 amp breaker, so it would not be proper.

That should settle it--the 0052519 would be correct.
 
Westie, you say you're going to skip the relay because you only anchor a few times in a year. Consider that either switch ( the manual or the relay) has to pass all the current that the windlass motor demands. So either over a short period of time or when the anchor gets stuck, the manual switch contacts will disintegrate since they're not sized for the load and you're faced with pulling the anchor up by hand. The factory used only the manual switch on Journey On and it failed at a most inopportune time. And you have a Tomcat, which is heavier that a C-25 and would dig in the anchor deeper.

It doesn't take much time to wire in the relay and it offers a large amount of insurance. You can wire it with a larger wire size while you're at it. I certainly was glad I did it.

Lewmar added the relay for the 700 for a reason. And BTW they redesigned the 600 to a 700 because the capstan seal failed. You might go along with their changes.

Boris
 
Thanks Boris - It really comes down to time. Since I rarely anchor, I really don't want to spend the time and money on this fix. The previous switched worked for 10 years. I hope to get that again...if not, I'll probably just upgrade the whole system.
 
Hi Westie!
Agree with others a 255 prop CAN be changed out in a slip, but it's a MUCH higher risk maneuver than doing it in the driveway. Checking for a possible, as opposed to definitely, spun hub is a prop shop job for burly props like ours. Cheaper to buy a new one.
I favor aluminum 4 blade props (always the outlier) and just paid Accu-Prop $140 to spec and smooth both (each SOLAS was only $121 brand new from iboats.com including free delivery). I'm not convinced the SS is worth the rather marginal performance delta (1-2 MPH WOT) vs the downsides for the F150 (idle prop rattle, shift clunks etc).
Regarding bilge water, there are a lot of potential spots for rain to enter. Expect the fish boxes to be two 'enclosed plumbing systems' where any rain, fish ice, etc is plumbed to separate macerator pumps which output up high on the sides through an upper loop (to prevent any siphon action). Fishbox water can't leave except through those pumps and only when they are energized. Some owners have put float switches in the fishboxes wired to the respective macerator pump. Some cruisers/non-fishpersons like us simply disconnect the fishbox drain at the pump (not at the fishbox, which is very hard to access and therefore hard to to un-do). This allows all fishbox contents to drain directly into the bilge without backing up into the fishboxes. Then the bilge pumps for each sponson pump it out when the bilge pump float switch detects 3/4 inch depth (this is fine for rainwater, but not for fish blood/guts etc).
You can easily replace a float switch.
Many 255 owners have found that for whatever reasons, rainwater prefers equally to go into the fishboxes before exiting out the corner scuppers, even with a bimini.
On a day when your neck is feeling especially flexible, trace all the plumbing from the fishboxes and bilge pumps to get a good feel re how your boat was rigged/has been changed.
There will be a test question to ID all 8 water pumps (not including engines) on a typical 255 whenever you're ready. They all have a 12 month warranty because their Maker designed them that way. One happy exception is the Rule Gold series 5 year warranty bilge pumps...highly recommended.
Happy investigating!
John
 
Finally replaced the switch and it's the same...I have power incoming and no power gong to the winlass motor. I checked the resistance in the switch is connecting properly.
If the motor was bad, wouldn't I still see voltage going to it at the switch?
 
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