2005 C-dory 25 Gas tank question

Alyssa Jean

New member
Right before we left for a month I noticed a slight gas smell in the cabin. I traced it down to a small amount (6-8 oz) that had accumulated at the bilge pump just aft of the gas tank. I wiped it out and then looked for the source. I cannot find any hint of a leak at the fuel filter or fittings there, which is inside the starboard compartment outside of the engine well. What can anyone tell me about the tank itself as to fittings, etc. There are both port and starboard fill hoses as well as vents. And the fuel pick up I believe to be in the center of the tank/cockpit floor under the round access door.

The tank is full. This is not from warm expansion. The boat is in a garage.

Questions; Are the fill tank nipples on the side at the top or on the top? And also the same for the vent hoses. If they are on the top I could probably eliminate dripping there. If the gas pickup is at the center could the hose have become loose enough for the gas in the hose to the fuel filter be dripping at the tank fitting and running back and off the tank? .

I will be looking at this when I get home. On Maui until April 1.
 
you could try putting some dye in the fuel to find the leak but the dye may stain if left on a surface for an extended period of time?
 
Not sure about the side connections for fill and vent. Is yours a plastic or aluminum tank? Our boat which is just a couple hulls from yours developed a leak in the tank that was discovered as it was prepped for sale to us back in 2009. It had a poly tank I was told and the leak was in the tank itself and not repairable so they installed a new aluminum tank. Without pulling up the cockpit floor, it would be very hard to identify such a leak. Pulling the floor sounds major but I think re-caulking it cleanly would be the only challenge. Could be an opportunity for some other maintenance or improvements down there. I am trying to look on the bright side for you!

Greg
 
My tank (on a Cape Cruiser) pitted where it touched a raised fiberglass rib. I'm assuming that fish blood and saltwater hung up between the rib and tank and allowed the salt to eat away the aluminum due to the area being constantly soaked with salt water during the boating season. The tanks really should have been powder coated or had a line-X liner sprayed on the bottom. There is a picture of the pitting in my photo album. I'm not saying that's your problem. I am saying that I think salt water will eat away aluminum giving the chance. I don't know if your tanks are in a wet area on a 25 or if water could seep in around your tanks on a 25. I'm just giving you another place to search.
 
When I get home from a boating trip I remove the outside drain plug and take the boat to a steep driveway and let as much water drain out as possible. When parking the boat I open the floor hatches in the aft of the boat and sponge out all of the water. I then cover the boat and with the hatches still open I let it dry thoroughly.

My gas tank is aluminum on my CD-25 year 2008.

When I did not dry out the boat, lots of mildew coated everything (wires, batterys, fresh water pump, etc.) I cleaned the mildew with sprayed on clorox, then rinse with water, drain, and with the hatches open everything stays clean and dry.

I keep about 30 to 40 gallons of gas in my 100 gallon fuel tank. I add the required amount of dark Sta-bil every time I add gas to my tank. I usually only add the estimated amount of gas that I need for the trip. This way the old gas and new gas mix. In the past 4 years I have had no problems and no water in the tank.
 
The proper installation of an aluminum tank is to 5200 plastic strips to the bottom of the hull, and then 5200 the top of the strips, and set the tank on the plastic strips. You can then strap the tank down--but do not use any item which contains carbon--like rubber--because it will interact with the aluminum and cause corrosion.

The plastic strips should be high enough off the bilge that any bilge water will not be in contact with the tank. The water should be able to drain fully out of the bilge, and not be trapped by the strips.

The tanks can be painted or sprayed (I have done this--but they have to be cleaned, washed, dryed, and then treated with Alodine, epoxy primer and then a paint or bed liner. The worse scenario is tanks which are foamed in place, and the water is then trapped in close proximity with the aluminum.

Unfortunately most production boats are not so built.
 
David I looked. Our's is an "early" '07; tank is also aluminum. Both the fill & vent hoses attach at the top, albeit, very close to the outer edge/corner of the tank. The sender and pickup are also on top, centered, under the round inspection port. Hope that helps.
 
Do think it was pure gas or just water mixed with a little fuel. That can smell like all gas if it sits long enough in a closed area. May have been there for awhile?

Charlie
 
Do think it was pure gas or just water mixed with a little fuel
Not entirely sure. I did clean it out real well and left the two deck hatches open to air.

Also, I just remembered that I think there is a round access hatch on the sides of each of the two small steps into the cockpit that may access the fill hose connections.

I was going to ask Andy at Master Marine who used to work at C-Dory, but his last day I was told was the 24th. I emailed the factory with no response. Heard a rumor (unsubstantiated) that they are closed. HOPE NOT.
 
Do you have a bore inspection scope? Sears had a nice one with a decent screen and 36" length cable for $99 but deal expired.
Should help to see all of the connections.
 
David, that is very unsettling news...I have emailed, called and texted Scott Boysen, all unsuccessfully (trying to find the required clearance for my new "goal post" guide-ons). Scott has always been very prompt in replying, so I was a bit puzzled. Like you, I am hoping it is not true...


Anna Leigh":14b5t84h said:
Do think it was pure gas or just water mixed with a little fuel
Not entirely sure. I did clean it out real well and left the two deck hatches open to air.

Also, I just remembered that I think there is a round access hatch on the sides of each of the two small steps into the cockpit that may access the fill hose connections.

I was going to ask Andy at Master Marine who used to work at C-Dory, but his last day I was told was the 24th. I emailed the factory with no response. Heard a rumor (unsubstantiated) that they are closed. HOPE NOT.
 
Also, I just remembered that I think there is a round access hatch on the sides of each of the two small steps into the cockpit that may access the fill hose connections.

Yes. Ours has two on each side. That's where I looked for the vent/fill connections.
 
Very sorry to hear this news David. I had the same issue back in 08. I started to get fuel in the low points of the bilge. I checked all the hoses, pickups, vents, filters but everything was tight. I took it in to the factory (Fluid) and they opened the deck up and made all the checks including putting in dye to help find the leak. They were unable to find the leak.
They replaced the tank with a new aluminum tank. The old one was also aluminum.
I know this is not much help in finding the leak but I hope it turns out to be something simple.

Fred
 
I just received this article from our neighbor. He is a boat builder and writes a weekly article in one of our local papers. His shop also does a lot of maintenance work. I mentioned some of what he has written in the past; his words here...

-------------

COLUMN NAME: “AT THE HELM”

ARTICLE TITLE: More Ethanol Bad News For Boaters

BY: DOC

Right about now, I’m thinking that this column is starting to sound like a broken record because it seems that hardly a month or two doesn’t go by that the harmful effects of ethanol fuels in marine motors doesn’t pop up its ugly head with even more bad news. Over the last year or two, I thought that every possible nasty topic had been covered and that by now boaters would have taken all of the necessary steps to protect their motors and fuel systems, but unfortunately that isn’t the case and now there’s even more ethanol bad news for boaters.

For those boaters, and landlubbers, who haven’t come up to speed on this California, EPA and Governmental mandated ethanol laced fuel that was intended to reduce harmful emissions in both gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines while at the same time improving fuel efficiency, here’s a quick review of what this alcohol cocktail has to its credits thus far.

The gas and diesel you buy nowadays contains at about 10% ethanol, or more, and is called “E-10”. This ethanol is primarily made from fermented and distilled corn, although other organic plants can also achieve the same results it is corn that is more abundant and less expensive to produce, which really made a lot of farmers happy. Ethanol, a type of alcohol, does in fact burn cleaner than good ol’ gasoline, but that’s pretty much where the good news stopped. Ethanol, that was initially thought to be cheaper to produce than gasoline ended up being subsidized with our tax dollars to try and keep fuel costs in line, if you can believe that.

One of the first drawbacks noticed regarding ethanol laced fuels was that it produced less power than regular gasoline, which meant that to travel at the same speed and pull the same load, you’d have to give your vehicle more throttle, ultimately using more fuel and putting out more emissions. Following that, researchers found that ethanol readily absorbed moisture, water vapors, right out of the air at an alarming rate, so much so that all marine motors must now be equipped with fuel/water separator filters and the filters need to be changed at least every 90 days, if not sooner, to avoid serious motor damage and poor performance.

Next came the fact that the combination of water and ethanol are highly corrosive, so much so that it will damage, eat away and destroy metal parts in motors, fuel systems and even older metal fuel tanks. Over the last couple of years there has been an uptick in leaking metal fuel tanks and boat fires attributed to the effects of ethanol fuels. To make matters worse, because ethanol molecules are so tiny, basically microscopic, they can pass right through standard fuel lines and hoses and both metal and plastic fuel tanks. “Permeation” as it is called, not only put more harmful vapors into the air, but also has increased safety concerns because of an elevated risk of fires and explosions onboard.

To combat permeation, California and EPA have mandated that only Type A-1 (alcohol resistant) fuels lines are used; plastic fuel tanks to now be double-walled and metal ones to have special liners, coatings or bladders, but the regulations didn’t stop there. If the current regulations remain unchanged, in the next couple of years all marine fuel systems will be required to have anti-surge valves, charcoal filters and possibly catalytic converters, that as you might imagine will significantly raise the price of a boat’s motor and fuel system…for what?!

Another one of the most well-known nasties about ethanol fuels is that they break down much faster than good ol’ gasoline. It’s called “phase separation” among other things and while I won’t go into all of the technical mumbo jumbo, basically the fuel goes bad in about 3 to 4 weeks in marine fuel systems, causing a multitude of motor problems, some catastrophic!

Older, 2-stroke carbureted motors primarily experience gummed up carburetors, loss of power and performance, and occasionally damaged internal motor parts, but it’s the newer fuel injected 2-stroke and 4-stroke motors that are getting the raw end of the deal.
For those older carbureted motors, cleaning the carbs is relatively inexpensive, but when its fuel injectors, high pressure fuel pumps, vapor separators, fuel regulators, burned valves and the like, now we’re talking major bucks.

Since ethanol fuels are going bad in such a short time, there’s no need to waste your hard-earned money buying additives, because nothing will prolong or stop the inevitable breakdown of the fuel, especially in warmer and more humid areas such as ours. So, the only cure for this is to religiously get rid of your boat’s fuel once a month. For those who pre-mix oil with the fuel, I don’t know what you can do with it, but for oil injected and 4-stroke motors, you might want to pump it into your land vehicle where it’ll be used in a day or two.

Okay, now for the most recent bad news about ethanol fuels. First of all, all internal combustion engines operate on a precise mixture or fuel and air (oxygen) to create the explosion in the cylinders. Too much fuel and the motor bogs down harmlessly, but if there’s too much air, detonation can occur and this results in burned pistons, cylinder walls, valves and cylinder heads. Normal detonation happens fairly quickly as any boat or automobile racer knows when they get greedy trying to get more power out of their motor by ramping up the octane (an oxygenator), adding nitrous-oxide, methanol or even nitro to their fuel. If the motor isn’t designed for this excessive heat and power, that’s when they go “BANG”!

The same thing happens in marine motors too, but we now have a new type of detonation that many of the manufacturers’ techs are calling something similar to a “plasma cutter”. This new type of detonation happens very slowly over an extended period of time during the first millisecond of each startup of the motor. It’s caused by an excessive amount of air in the fuel mixture that gets there from four sources of oxygenation, the octane and ethanol in the fuel, regular air supplied by the motor, and from the tiny air pockets left behind as ethanol evaporates and permeates. The result is that the piston can slowly be eaten away on the side nearest the exhaust port or valve, and finally loses total compression. While nothing else is normally damaged, the repair bill will destroy your wallet.

According to these same factory techs, the only preventative measure a boater can take is to always prime their fuel system 3 times, waiting 30 seconds or so between each of the priming’s, before starting the motor. For those with fuel injected motors, the third priming should take place after turning the ignition key to “On” and before starting the motor. This hopefully pressurizes the fuel system completely and gets rid of the excess air. I know this sounds like a pain to do, but think of the alternative!

AS ALWAYS, STAY SAFE & HAPPY BOATING!!!
 
Anna Leigh":upizykgd said:
I emailed the factory with no response. Heard a rumor (unsubstantiated) that they are closed. HOPE NOT.

You heard the factory was closed? I've been emailing back and forth with Jeff at the factory, just talked to him today. They just built and shipped me a swim step this month.

On the other hand, I've been waiting for a while for Scott to answer some questions for me, so maybe he's on vacation or something?
 
journey on":2mlj5orf said:
I recently read this article regarding ethanol fuel in BoatUS :
Three Ethanol Myths Clarified By Bob Adriance.
The sidebar has a few comments from Mercury marine.

Boris

Mercury Marine is the only manufacturer taking the stance they are concerning ethanol. Mercury Marine is also the only manufacturer allowed to sell 2 star emmission level outboards in California. Related? I don't know.

But based on what we see in our shop- Mercury has it wrong, and BoatUS is doing their members a disservice by promoting the information from Mercury.

I contacted BoatUS after they published their winterizing article, and the information was very outdated. I got an e-mail back stating that there was an Ethonal sidebar to the article, for those that may be using ethanol. Since that's the majority of boaters, I was disappointed by BoatUS's handling of this important issue.

Ethanol is the single greatest threat to the marine industry, and is costing boat owners millions of dollars every year in repairs and engine replacement. If this continues, I can see thousands of boat owners getting out of boating due to the expense of maintenance.
 
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