01/21 - 01/23 Seattle Boat Show/C-Brat Gathering

centerisland":1p3m5yd8 said:
seahooked":1p3m5yd8 said:
(MM's owner) "for the grandfather type that cruises and does a little fishing, not the hardcore fishing boat".
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I'm not a grandfather (another year or two <fingers crossed>), so while the term "grandfather" did not resonate with me, you have to admit that this really is the demographic of C-Brats. What was the average age at the SBS-CBGT (my first)? 55? Higher?

Also, keep in mind he was specifically talking about a 22 Cruiser - not an Angler - and you have to concede that boat wasn't designed for a "hardcore fisherman".

My point is, in the world of purpose-built fishing boats the C-Dory doesn't stand much of a chance - but in the world of trailerable, moderate speed (for the "mature" boater! :wink: ), singles - couples - family cruising boat, particularly if they also want to fish, it really stands out.

So, while I might quibble with the term "grandfather", I don't think his one-liner generalized characterization is far from the mark.
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Keith makes a valid point. The average age of the C-Dory owners is >50, probably 55-60. HOWEVER, if you exclude ski and wake board boats and boats < about $30-40k, I'm pretty sure you'll find that average age of the C-dory owner is similar to that of other boats in a similar price range. E.g. this is more a reflection of purchasing power than the boat. But I definitely agree that the C-Dory doesn't compete well with purpose built fishing boats when used exclusively for fishing.

I also agree I wouldn't characterize it necessarily as an adventure cruising boat. What I would characterize it as is:
1) A boat that is flexible enough to be used in a wide variety ways ranging from cruising to fishing.
2) A boat that is simple to maintain and inexpensive to operate. Not only is it easy on the wallet at the fuel pump, the trailerability allows one to "moor" it at home (saving $300/month) AND go long distances at 60-65MPH to explore boating in new locations. I think if the marketing talked about total cost of ownership, the C-Dory can compete with ANY boat that allows a couple to sleep on it.
3) A boat that is well built and safe in any condition that the operator and passengers can handle (and safe in some conditions that they can't).
4) A boat that holds its value better than most.

To me, the above are the main selling points.
 
I probably fish as much as anybody on this site and have my boat rigged for fishing more than cruising. I take many of my fellow PSA members on fishing trips where we stay on the boat and fish for a few days. Some say I really like your boat, however I wish it had a bigger cockpit or fishing platform. I usually reply by saying I do to, however when we are tied up to the dock tonight and staying on the boat instead of paying over $100 for a crappy motel room with no view, you’ll be happy about the big cabin. Some also say I wish your boat could go faster through the waves so we can fish earlier. I reply by saying, yeah I wish it rode as smooth as a SeaSport, but we’re going to go all the way down to the Umatilla Reef, fish all day, come back and use less than 15 gallons of fuel. It’s only going to cost you $20 for your share of the fuel. By the end of the trip they appreciate our style of boats more. I know I sure do.
Forrest
 
I completely disagree with saying the C-Dory is just for the grandfather type.

I just find that characterization a little bit shortsighted. True C-Dory's are not for the people that just like to go fast somewhere (not really caring where they are going and what they miss on the way there). I am a sailor as well so I like the cruising side a lot.

I am not 40 yet and find my boat perfect for my demographic (under 40 with a toddler). I feel very safe having my kid on the boat.

After I moved to the Chesapeake Bay I spent three years looking for a boat that would:
1) have less than 12" of draft (I am in the Chesapeake Bay and most places as well as the creek I am in are very shallow),
2) provide good protection from the weather for fishing in the fall and spring and for cruising under a hot sun during the summer (in late November/December I am the only boat out fishing),
3) be safe to have a baby on it (the cabin provides that protection plus a good place for him to take naps),
4) be a good fishing platform (last but not least).

I had no clue about the C-Dory line until I saw an add with a photo in the local paper. Before that I went to the local boat dealers and the only option I had with that draft requirement were center consoles.

So I think that MM is missing a large segment of the market that would love the C-Dory line.

I lost 3 years of boating/fishing that I will never get back because nobody introduced my to the C-Dory earlier.

Franco
 
centerisland":1riviy6d said:
JamesTXSD":1riviy6d said:
I"ll bet what he meant to say is: these are boats for the non-candy-ass types who aren't afraid to head for the horizon and spend a night or twelve on the boat. 8)
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IMHO, that characterization would scare off many new boaters (one of the big audiences at any boat show). The boat is not intimidating - it's safe, probably econimical to operate, not flashy. And if they see the C-Brat poster they'll see the group events and nice spots.

If by "adventure" you mean with a kayak and bikes on top (a la Ranger), then fine - that kind of active lifestyle might be appropriate. But if you emphasized towing cross-country and places like Alaska, I think you'd intimidate many of those folks (or at least their spouses!).

I think the "adventure" type folks will organically find out about C-Dories...they'll see them in the "wild" when they're doing their adventures, hit the Internet, and end up...here.

But if you want to snag new boaters (especially with apparently zero advertising and editorial coverage), you need to reel them in carefully (mangled metaphor, I'm not a fisherman!).
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We really need a tongue-in-cheek emoticon. My post was was meant to be jokingly one-sided as a come-back to the "grandfatherly" comment. Our boats are versatile, so to categorize any owner is kinda missing the point of this niche. The boat does fish, it cruises, it is the "magic carpet" to adventures on the water. It's a picnic boat. A private dolphin watch vessel (reference for Tom and Pat :wink: ). A social gathering boat. It keeps you out of the weather, but still gives you sunsets in the cockpit. Easily towable, even easier to launch/retrieve. Economical to operate. It's a couples' hideaway. A family cabin on the water. One person's escape from the daily rat race.

It seems a shame to pigeon-hole these boats in any way. The look of the boat attracts potential buyers, as all of us will attest. Each new potential boat buyer has to picture themselves IN the boat and decide how they will use it. With a bit of encouragement, there is a good size niche. I have to shake my head when a dealer doesn't see that potential.

We have a neighbor who lives to fish; just the kind of guy Tom describes. He thinks the way we use our boat is a complete waste of time. That guy isn't a potential C-Dory buyer. Nor the folks who only want to wake board or waterski.

If one wants to sell boats (or cars, RVs, motorcycles), you need to listen to how any prospective buyer intends to use it, and then help them picture themselves in it... then, it's just a matter of helping them pick the best accessories to customize their DREAMboat. :D

I would like to be a grandfather, but I don't think most guys want to be categorized as "grandfatherly", especially when plunking down a big chuck of cash. The "dream" may be taking the grandkids out on the boat, but one has to understand the demographics of the buyers. The baby-boomers are aging... that is a fact. The average age of a new C-Dory buyer may be over 50, but as Roger pointed out, that also has to do with buying power. Check the average age of a Corvette buyer, a Harley-Davidson buyer... young guys lust after those products, but it takes buying power to bring a new one home. The baby-boomers are the smart target for this niche... not because they are "grandfatherly," but because they have the financial resources, and they do want some "adventure" in their lifestyle. Let them define "adventure."

How many orders for C-Dorys did MM take these past 10 days?

Best wishes,
Jim B. (oh, and I was 52 when we ordered our C-Dory :wink: )
 
centerisland,

Your "spouses" comment won't stand up in court! Neither will MM's comment about "grandfathers" Just saying. :wink:

Robbi (old enough to be a grandmother and them some)
 
rogerbum":a8m9d3hx said:
Mark - I noticed that you indicated you turn 50 in a couple of weeks - me too (on the 13th). Happy early birthday.
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:cake :gift :beer DITTO! Happy birth day to you! 8) Small world...

(I'm the 11th) I USED to be an Aquarius hence the love of the water... :wink:
 
I got a chance to talk to one of the guys from Master Marine (MM)yesterday and was able to hear their side of the story. Sorry I didn't get his name. I identified myself as a C-Brat and he said something like, "oh, the C-Brats have been giving us a hard time" or something like that. I responded by saying that we are just very enthusastic, we love our C-Dory's and expect the same from dealers who sell our boats. I told him that we were not impressed by the salesman (sm) who was showing the boat on the first weekend of the boat show and he acknowledged that the sm wasn't the most enthusiastic salesman in the world. In fact he told me that he wasn't even an employee of MM but they had been using him the past few boat shows because he used to work for C-Dory. This does confirm what the sm told me the previous week, that he actually worked for Fluid Marine. It sounds like MM might not be using that sm again in the future.

This past weekend, the guys showing the boat were a lot more enthusiastic, I think one of them was Larry Carpenter and he seemed pretty into it. The guy I was talking to did mention that it has been tough, that they are really "trying" and that it's hard to sell the boats without a lot of factory support, especially no support in flooring boats for the dealers. He said right now, "it's all on the dealers" with no advertising, boats or support. He acknowledged that Triton Marine was hanging in there and trying the best they could. So for now, I've decided to go easy on MM.

I asked how the sales were going and apparently they sold the boat show boat but I'm not sure many other orders were taken although when I was there, a potential customer seemed pretty serious about getting more info on C-Dorys. There were lots of people poking around the boat but alas, as Jim referred to above, there were not a lot of contracts being signed like Ranger/Cutwater. All I can say, in the inimitable words of hardcore Brooklyn Dodger fans, is: Wait'll next year. Hopefully things pick up.

One last thing: The dealer guy did say that "the 29 that's been sitting on the lot the past couple years has been killing us" and mentioned that they had a couple of other C-Dorys on the lot they're trying to sell. I told him that I'd post a link to these boats so, in keeping with my word, here they are:

2008 19' Angler
2008 22' Angler and
the infamous 2009 29'

Peter
C-Dancer
 
easternshore22":3046sxfm said:
I completely disagree with saying the C-Dory is just for the grandfather type
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I don't believe that anyone has said "just" for any activity or demographic.

easternshore22":3046sxfm said:
So I think that MM is missing a large segment of the market that would love the C-Dory line.
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I think it's important to recognize the context of that quote - it was on a fishing radio show! For the people listening to that show, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 95% would agree with that statement.

Again, I was unhappy with the execution of the MM - SBS booth (at least initially), and I'm not thrilled with my other experiences with MM, but - in this one quote - I'm glad he even mentioned C-Dory, and if he had one sentence to communicate to that radio audience, I think it was a reasonable thing to say.
 
Robbi":2hb6hvkp said:
centerisland...Your "spouses" comment won't stand up in court!
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To my eyes, it was very much in evidence at the SBS-CBGT. Spouses made up less than a third (guess) of the people in attendance on Friday night, though some of the folks I talked to said their spouses were coming later for the SBS. The WAF (wife acceptance factor) of C-Dories is pretty high compared to most other boats, but if they were told that the primary purpose of the boat was to cruise remote areas, I'm pretty sure some of us wouldn't be "owners". Just saying. :wink:
And if Friday had been a meeting of die-hard fisherman...
 
On a semi-related note, I did talk to Les at EQ Marine recently about a motor for our new inflatable. While I had him on the phone, I asked him about boat sales. He indicated that sales of new boats remain fairly flat for him but that they have been moving a fair number of used boats on consignment. In fact he indicated that their inventory of used boats was near zero right now since sales have been pretty good. So, if you have a boat to sell and want to support a great local dealer, you might consider selling on consignment via Les.
 
I just spent the morning at MM looking a a c-dory for a fellow brat from out of the area. After looki ng at this used boat I call my friend and said to go thru with the offer. while there I very shortly talked with the owner. He said the sold two c-dorys at the show. I did not have time to get into it with him about his radio comment but he was on the phone with the radio host ( who I know) again about more air time or fishing reports. He did however try and sell me a 29!!!:roll: Told him that pig is never going to sell.

As much as I dont like this outfit I would not let it stop me from buying a used boat from them. At least they did not work on it.
 
centerisland, I know I got a bit uppity about the spouse comment. But you cleared it up with the WAF. TFPIC (That is for Jim)

About the diehard fisherman factor. I should have listened to Tom. I ribbed him at the show about his "not before dawn"fishing thing. He had some lame WAF excuse. Anyway, I went against Tom's sage advice and got up yesterday at 4:30am to go steelheading. That is like three hours before sunrise. :disgust Another "what was I thinking" moment.
So today I am paying for it. I am down with the worst cold that I have had it years. Makes me cranky. I am not myself. Really. I'm a wreck.


I also had a long talk with the salesman at MM on Sat. He tried to sell me the boat, to his credit. There was a very interested couple looking at the boat and were seriously asking questions, and getting good help from him.

About the radio podcast. I think that the owner of MM knew his audience for the show.

I want to know more about his other Boat Line. I think he said it for the gin and tonic crowd. :cocktail As sick as I am, that sounds goooood to me!


Robbi
 
:shock:
I agree with the folks who say the baby boomers are the target market. I think it is partly because our generation sees the value of this sport utility boat. These boats can do almost anything. Not that I do it much my GPS shows a top speed of 40 mph. I almost never run more than 25 mph; usually no more than 20mph. The shallow draft, it's ability to anchor out with most of the amenities of the larger boats, I fish from it, while trailering I sleep in it at rest areas are what I thought were great features. But what really sold me was the C-Brat community. I went thru almost all the photo albums. I followed Jay and Jolee's Alaskan adventures,etc. After I bought one I got invited to Cruise the Erie canal by way of the C-Brat site. We spent our first week aboard our boat. Those folks gave us helpful hints we shared what ever we had with each other. Since then we have cruised with some of the same people every year. We hear it all the time. We wish we could do that or your doing exctly what we want to do. We are doing it, living the dream I'm 62 a grandfather of three and I don't care what the call me. My dealer Wefings wrote the order and kept me from doing dumb stuff, the C-Brats sold me the boat. I'd let M.M. off the hook he meant to say was mature audiences who have the time and money to go on trips longer than a few hours.
D.D.
 
Screw what the guy from MM said. Ive put enough fish blood in my C-dory you could have used it for a prop in a Wes Craven movie. Oh yeah I'm a 50 plus grandpa of 3
 
Re: WAF. I was leaning toward a hardtop Hewescraft but when the Admiral saw the Tom Cat she said our search was over. I'm glad she did because otherwise I would not be part of this great group! And it is a great boat, too.

Warren
 
Late Monday night, and I am still at the office, but wanted to post some thoughts-

The Sea Skiffs were kinda rough, and looked like prototypes. There should have been somebody there to explain that, because otherwise there is no way to know that future boats may be better finished.

Anybody else notice that these are rolled gunnel hulls? The deck/cabin mold and aft section molds are attached to the rolled edge of the hull with rivits. An interesting and economical way to build the boat.

I should say thanks to everyone who brought me a soda, or stopped to introduce themselves, or just come by and say hi. I'm sure I missed a lot of people, as we were swamped much of the time in our booth.

Our sales were fantastic, and I can say it's the most fun I've had at a boat show in years.

Now we have to get everything back here, reset our showrom, and finish delivering the dozens of outboards we sold.

I had someone call me asking for a price quote on a C-Dory. He let me know he's shopping it around and will be buying from whoever has the lowest price. I quoted him a fair price, and have no idea if he'll buy from us. But he lives within 10 miles of our dealership.
 
Hey Matt,

Glad to hear it was a successful show - and really nice that it was FUN. :D Having a good local dealer has to be worth a lot to a buyer. Hope to hear that looker turns into a buyer for you.

Thanks for your participation here.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I attended the SBS both Saturdays and visited the MM booth each day and hung out around the C Dory. I made it a point to talk to anyone who was looking at the model and shared my experiences.

I consider myself a serious fisherman (even fanatical, getting up at 3:30 am to get going) and I'll tell anyone, that boat can fish! Puget Sound, San Juans, Westport (0ver the Bar!), Nootka Sound and ocean off Vancouver Island. It handles it all and then some.

I also shared our cruising experiences on the Sound and in the San Juans and what fun being a C-Brat is.

All in all, I agree, there should have been more boats at the SBS, like in the past and it would have been great to have the Triton Factory Folks there like the Ranger people were.

Scott and Jeff did a great show when they had Sea Sport and you sure knew it was them at their display. I truly believe they would have been there in force at the SBS if they had the means to do so. I'm not wearing their shoes, so I can only guess.

I'm getting my mini brochures and will be enthusiastically trying to sell C-Dorys in my own small way. Notice the lack of listings for used C-Dorys here and online? That is great news for the factory! Having the boat sold at the SBS and possible of 2 orders written by MM, that's great news, too.

Here's hoping for a prosperous year for Triton and associated dealers of C-Dory!
 
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