01/21 - 01/23 Seattle Boat Show/C-Brat Gathering

I did, i was hepling out yesterday at the kids trout pond for the PSA yesterday. Robbi stopped by and pointed it out to me. I went over a talked to the guy. The boats are ruff 16 and 14 ft c-dorys built by the tolands......thats right the tolands.

very simple basic open cabin fishing boats or tenders.
 
They are called "Sea Skiffs."

starcrafttom":27vtihnq said:
I did, i was hepling out yesterday at the kids trout pond for the PSA yesterday. Robbi stopped by and pointed it out to me. I went over a talked to the guy. The boats are ruff 16 and 14 ft c-dorys built by the tolands......thats right the tolands.

very simple basic open cabin fishing boats or tenders.
Click to expand...
 
Built by Sea Skiff LLC, Kent Washington. These are built by Roy Toland. I was told that they are the 14 and 16 hulls, but the cabins have been redone. They call the larger of the two a "17", not sure what that is about.
The "17" rigged with a 50 Honda was listed for $28,000. It is a Cruiser.
Nothing fancy here. Galvanized cleats, saw no running lights......

Robbi
 
starcrafttom":1vdvfngq said:
The boats are ruff 16 and 14 ft c-dorys built by the tolands......thats right the tolands.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did see them and I was not impressed. Quite frankly I am surprised that Toland had produced these as I felt they were a bit shoddy with the windows on the 14'. (Certainly in the past their end product was MUCH more superior in quality than these appeared to be). Had I known that they were produced by Toland, I probably would have spent a bit more time looking them over, but when I saw the workmanship on the windows of the 14', I pretty much walked away. They were extremely spartan in appearance.
 
DaveS":3gcn0spk said:
starcrafttom":3gcn0spk said:
The boats are ruff 16 and 14 ft c-dorys built by the tolands......thats right the tolands.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did see them and I was not impressed. Quite frankly I am surprised that Toland had produced these as I felt they were a bit shoddy with the windows on the 14'. (Certainly in the past their end product was MUCH more superior in quality than these appeared to be). Had I known that they were produced by Toland, I probably would have spent a bit more time looking them over, but when I saw the workmanship on the windows of the 14', I pretty much walked away. They were extremely spartan in appearance.
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I saw those two and immediately assumed they were the old C-Dory molds. I wonder if there's any (legal) issues with them doing the 16 since I assume the rights to that passed to Triton. As for the windows on the 14, I assumed that boat wasn't complete and they just slapped some pieces of plexiglass on them at the last minute to simulate real windows. I've been by there twice and haven't seen anyone manning the booth so I'm not sure why they bothered to pay for the display space.
 
Here's a pic of the Sea Skiff "display":
seaskiffs.jpg
 
Interesting... there have been other boats called a Sea Skiff over the years. Even if they don't have the original molds from C-Dory, one can "splash" a boat to make a mold. I don't think any of us know about the transfer of assets and/or if any sort of non-compete (if still in effect) went with the transfer. Still, with the family history in the boat biz, one would think they could come up with something unique instead of coming across as a one-trick pony.
 
Harvey,

I'm sure Jim is very much familiar with the Marinaut being one of the most frequent posters on the board. It is a unique boat with many good features that Ben Toland and Dave designed. The Sea Skiff by Roy Toland is a different matter. It's a straight up C-Dory hull, with a cabin roof that's rounded a bit like the Marinaut but no other particularly redeeming features.
 
Roger, Right you are, and I should probably know the relationship of Ben and Roy. Seems like a bit of familial competition going on, but no comparison in the final product. I did see the Sea Skiffs for about 30 seconds as I walked by. Thought they looked pretty weak, but sure did notice the C-Dory family resemblance.

Good question earlier, about the possibility of infringement or no compete. Just my opinion, but the Cape Cruiser didn't look nearly as much like a C-Dory as either of those "Skiffs" did.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Yep, I definitely think the Marinaut is unique, innovative, and well thought out. And my comments about the Sea Skiff had nothing to do with the Marinaut. Since I wasn't there to see the Sea Skiff, I can only go by the photos and comments posted here... veteran C-Dory folks who said "shoddy" and "very, very basic." I don't understand taking a design that was sold to others and then remaking it; something about that doesn't feel right, and at the very least shows lack of imagination. Considering the above comments, it also illustrates the old saying about "someone can always make it cheaper."

Jim B.
 
I made one more trip to the boat show today to pick up the inflatable we bought and to look at a few other things. Someone was manning the Sea Skiff booth so I stopped to talk for a few minutes. I asked about the lexan windows in the 14' and I was told - those were a mistake and the that boat was a prototype. Apparently Roy thought he could make the windows cheaper and good looking with Lexan and from what I infer, he discovered that neither was true. The sales guy indicated that future boats would be with the more std. Diamond sea glaze (or similar) windows.

Also, I stopped of the LSF booth (marine supplies - Bellingham) and they had greatly discounted their fishing gear for the last few hours of the show. They really didn't want to haul that stuff back to Bellingham. All, Lurh Jensen flashers, spoons and jigs were selling for $40 for 20 (e.g. $2/ea in lots of 20). I bought all the remaining "Blue Magoo" coyote spoons on the rack and about 20 crippled herring jigs including about 8 that were huge (10 oz.) which should be good for halibut and large ling cod. I've done very well on coho with the Blue Magoo (or similar "funky chicken") pattern on coyote spoons and I'm now set for probably 1-2 years on jigs and spoons.
 
I'm a little behind catching up on these post however Tom's comments about Master Marine's focus on more traditional fishing boats hit home with me.

Last weekend on the 710 AM morning radio fishing program Larry Carpenter (MM's owner) was interviewed about the SBS. He talks about some of the boats he has at the show including a 22' C-dory he describes "for the grandfather type that cruises and does a little fishing, not the hardcore fishing boat".

When I heard this I was a little surprised he views our boats that way. I'm not the grandfather type and I consider myself a pretty serious fisherman. I think the C-Dory is perfect for me.


To hear for yourself, go to:

http://www.theoutdoorline.com/

Go to Podcasts; Jan 22; Larry Carpenter Part 1, and you'll hear the C-Dory comments in about a minute.
 
The SeaSkiff 16 looks like it has a higher roof .It looks like the Tolands are going back to their roots a very KISS style boat .I guess they were seeing if their is any interest in a smaller boat .With gas prices on the rise they may eventually give Triton a run for their money . This is good for all of us since it will bring more attention to dory hulls . I haven't seen the boats since I did not attend the SBS this year . I would imagine that they will stay in the PNW for a while since transportation would cost so much . Are there any web sites that have this boat listed ? Jim on Jennykatz a cc-23 built designed by Tolands
 
seahooked":3hiykb0g said:
...

Last weekend on the 710 AM morning radio fishing program Larry Carpenter (MM's owner) was interviewed about the SBS. He talks about some of the boats he has at the show including a 22' C-dory he describes "for the grandfather type that cruises and does a little fishing, not the hardcore fishing boat".

When I heard this I was a little surprised he views our boats that way. I'm not the grandfather type and I consider myself a pretty serious fisherman. I think the C-Dory is perfect for me.
...
Click to expand...

Yep, that's the kinda thinking a company wants from a representative of their product. :roll: It's that whole perspective thing again... I'm not a fishing guy, and I consider our boat to be "an adventure cruiser." And now I find out I'm "a grandfather type." :mrgreen: Time for me to have that little talk with our daughter and son-in-law again.

I"ll bet what he meant to say is: these are boats for the non-candy-ass types who aren't afraid to head for the horizon and spend a night or twelve on the boat. 8)

Now, where did I put my shawl and slippers?

Jim B.
 
seahooked":blubj5xp said:
(MM's owner) "for the grandfather type that cruises and does a little fishing, not the hardcore fishing boat".
Click to expand...
I'm not a grandfather (another year or two <fingers crossed>), so while the term "grandfather" did not resonate with me, you have to admit that this really is the demographic of C-Brats. What was the average age at the SBS-CBGT (my first)? 55? Higher?

Also, keep in mind he was specifically talking about a 22 Cruiser - not an Angler - and you have to concede that boat wasn't designed for a "hardcore fisherman".

My point is, in the world of purpose-built fishing boats the C-Dory doesn't stand much of a chance - but in the world of trailerable, moderate speed (for the "mature" boater! :wink: ), singles - couples - family cruising boat, particularly if they also want to fish, it really stands out.

So, while I might quibble with the term "grandfather", I don't think his one-liner generalized characterization is far from the mark.
 
JamesTXSD":21kmjite said:
I"ll bet what he meant to say is: these are boats for the non-candy-ass types who aren't afraid to head for the horizon and spend a night or twelve on the boat. 8)
Click to expand...

IMHO, that characterization would scare off many new boaters (one of the big audiences at any boat show). The boat is not intimidating - it's safe, probably econimical to operate, not flashy. And if they see the C-Brat poster they'll see the group events and nice spots.

If by "adventure" you mean with a kayak and bikes on top (a la Ranger), then fine - that kind of active lifestyle might be appropriate. But if you emphasized towing cross-country and places like Alaska, I think you'd intimidate many of those folks (or at least their spouses!).

I think the "adventure" type folks will organically find out about C-Dories...they'll see them in the "wild" when they're doing their adventures, hit the Internet, and end up...here.

But if you want to snag new boaters (especially with apparently zero advertising and editorial coverage), you need to reel them in carefully (mangled metaphor, I'm not a fisherman!).
 
I'm in the unique demographic; <50 (for a couple of weeks anyway :wink: ) AND a grandfather of two.

We love our cruiser and use it to crab/shrimp and I've tried Halibut fishing, but a fisherman (person? :? ) I'm not. It'd be nice to have a deeper V w/ less pounding occasionally, but I wouldn't want to pay for the required fuel for such a boat. Especially w/ the latest rise in fuel prices. :x And we're not "go fast" people anyway. We use the boat to get away from the stresses of everyday life, so why would we want to tear around @ full throttle constantly? I can understand the guys who wann get out to the fish and get home, but that's not me. JMO.
 
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