01/21 - 01/23 Seattle Boat Show/C-Brat Gathering

Having been to masters marine and dealt with them on the phone over work done to another brat’s boat I think I know the problem with masters’ marine carrying the c-dory line and why it happened to begin with.

C-dory at the time (old owners) wanted EQ to move more boats, both Dory's and Orca's. Master marine said they could and where willing to push boats out the door based on the tom cat and the orcas. MM is a hard core fishing outfit. Their clients are type A go fast fish hard opening day. Start at 4 am and get back to the dock at noon to hit the bar and tell lies all day type guys. They don't cruise, or stay overnight on the boat. They don't anchor out and watch the sunset reading a boat. They don't have time. They have to fish hard get back go to 5 little league games, a bbq football party, etc... These are folks that are on the move from sun up to sun down doing something. They don't have time to relax because sitting still drives then crazy. And you never ever see their wife on the boat.

I know because I fish with these guys and they just don't understand why I would every consider a c-dory let alone buy one. First question out of all my fishing buddies is "how fast does it go" when I tell them they just shake their heads and have pity on me for buying a useless boat. No matter the sea conditions they run at 30 plus mph, just hang on more. They drive from a standing position because if you sat it would bounce you out of the boat. If you can’t do 30 on the water they just stay home. Most have no idea what the mpg is on their boat. I ask “how much fuel do you burn” “oh a tank” So a tank a day to fish is ok and acceptable as long as you don’t have to refuel during the day they don’t care.

MM sell that type boat to that type person and does so well. I think they wanted the tomcat and orca line and got the Dory's in the deal. They don't over night on their own boat and can’t understand why you would. It’s too far from a bar. They had that one sells guy come to Friday harbor and he committed to me that he’s boss just did not understand that we would all go there just to hang out. Wanted to know if we had a party or poker run, How many of us stayed in a hotel etc.. They just don't get us.
Master marine also makes a lot of money fixing and tuning boats for the type A’s that don’t have the time to do it themselves but have the money to have it done. Many of us would do it ourselves regardless of the money involves because we like too. Now there are is gray areas between the two types of boaters , but not as much as you would think.

I'm the closest thing to a diehard fisherman you have on this site and I don't get up before sunrise to fish. No I think that MM is just the wrong dealer for the c-dory or they need to hire someone that understands c-Dory's to handle the line.
 
I personally feel a bit uncomfortable with us publicly trashing one of the few dealers still standing. In general, I think such comments would be much better directed to the individual(s) at the company with the hopes that we could (via constructive criticism) have a positive impact.
 
As someone who actually bought a boat from Master Marine, I thought they were competent and fair to deal with. There was a bit of an issue with the Honda power (since they aren't, or weren't, a Honda dealer) and communication could have been better. On the plus side, they had stock boats at the time and they took me out for rides in a bunch of boats at Cap Sante on a demo day. I would NOT have bought one of these boats without riding in one first. The hull design was certainly a (unfounded) concern before buying, as I think it is for lots of people who come over from other style powerboats.

There were a couple of very minor problems just after delivery, and they were quickly corrected at no cost. The repair people were nice enough to take care of the issues at Twin Bridges so I didn't have to get the boat back to their shop.

At the time the only dealer options in the area were Lake Union Sea Ray and Master Marine. LUSR wouldn't return emails or calls and when they finally did quoted me a price that was something like $10k higher than Master Marine. The choice was easy for me, and while I don't think Master Marine is the greatest boat dealer in the world, I also don't think they are the worst thing that's ever happened to C-Dory.

If I were buying a new C-Dory today, though, I may well take my business to Matt over at Kitsap Marina. His willingness to share information freely on this forum (like Marc at Wefings and formerly Les at EQ) is great, and that's the sort of dealer I'd buy from given the choice.
 
starcrafttom":20nng80p said:
No I think that MM is just the wrong dealer for the c-dory or they need to hire someone that understands c-Dory's to handle the line.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Tom. I knew that MM was different, but did not know why until you laid it out for us.

rogerbum":20nng80p said:
I personally feel a bit uncomfortable with us publicly trashing one of the few dealers still standing. In general, I think such comments would be much better directed to the individual(s) at the company with the hopes that we could (via constructive criticism) have a positive impact.
Click to expand...

Roger, I do appreciate your POV but I must respectfully disagree. First, we all saw how poorly the MM sales staff represented C-Dory at the SBS. I can't see how much difference it would make if MM was a dealer or not.

Second, we would be doing a disservice to future C-Dory owners by not alerting them to the issues. We publicly discuss good and bad in motors, in cruising destinations, in beer. Why should we draw the line at dealers?

Third, it is very unlikely that Triton will respond publicly here, because relationships between them and their dealers are confidential, as they should be. But I do believe we have an obligation, as a group, to make our concerns known. Triton appears to value our support. The truths we speak as part of that support sometimes can be uncomfortable to hear.

Warren
 
Roger I tried that many times as have others. One of the function's of this site it to help c-brats with information so they can make a discussion about which boat or electronic to buy and from who. How many times have we on this site recommended or condemned a electronics supplier for bad service. I own the makers product but I'm not happy with who I bought it from so I state that here. We owe nothing to a dealership unless they provide good service.

Nothing about a dealer distract from the product itself. Me not liking the service from a provider has nothing to do with the product, which we all love.

I would be very happy if MM sold a lot of c-dorys but that will never happen unless something about them changes. The dory buyer is who he is. You can not turn a dory buyer into a go fast boat buyer any sooner then turning a go fast buyer into a dory owner. but a good dealer has to be able to talk and understand both.

I have buyers that are driven to buy a condo for very different reasons then a buyer that wants 4 acres. I have to understand what drives both of them and deal with their needs differently.
 
Tom has explained clearly why MM is lacking as a C-Dory dealer. Here's my limited experience with them. My 16 footer has been on consignment at, and recently sold by, Les at EQ. I heard that MM has a clean used 14 footer for sale so I gave them a call. The guy I spoke to in Sales didn't know much about the boat. Here's his side of the conversation:

"The engine is a 1994, maybe newer. No we don't have a spec. sheet. Yeah it's clean and has a trailer, but I'm not sure what else. No it's not on our website, we've had some trouble with that. "

Sure it wouldn't be a big sale, but it would be a sale! As it is, we'll put the money toward the mortgage, ride the ferry and wait for the next 14 footer. Truth be told, if Les was selling that boat we would have probably bought it. So, there you go...

MartyP
 
Explaining one's unhappiness with a particular dealer and or their lack of performance on a given boat or product delivered is one issue, what I particularly take exception to is some of the comments that stray from specifics and sound like personal and very unfriendly attacks. Also, I think we often have a "piling on effect" in which once someone becomes a target, they get (perhaps) more than their fair share of criticism. Master Marine occasionally (although not often) participates on this site. I know they won't be on the site to respond to any of this (if they ever do) until after the boat show. Still it might be nice to give them the opportunity to do so before the piling on occurs.

Also, I draw a distinction between a small local company with people I've met personally and a large company (like say Lowrance or Garmin) with people who will never know me personally. I might be more inclined to be critical of a company in general than of a specific individual. Finally, my Mom's words of "if you can't say something nice about someone, it's often best to say nothing at all" are a pretty good code by which to live. To me that's part of the general "Just be nice" ethic of this site.
 
Roger- I too have to respectfully disagree with you. No one here has been "not nice" or destructive in their criticism. To the contrary,the comments here have initiated an almost immediate upgrading of the display, which can have a significant impact on sales. Personally, I think everyone who commented deserves thanks for stepping up and demonstrating that they care passionately about these boats and the company that builds them.

MartyP
 
Roger I did not say they were "bad" people. They are just marketing to a different type of buyer. and that type of buyer is not a bad boater, just a lot different style of boater then most here. I was fairly accurate in my description and in no way demeaning. most of my fishing buddies fit that description and would be happy to say so. They love to blast out ,fish and blast back. don't know one of them that has every took the time to go view orcas. Might cut into fishing time. If they did do the wild life watch thing it was to get the wife off their back or for the kids. Just different type of people. I want to learn to sail because its a skill set I don't have. I never want to sail to Alaska. Too dam slow. I had to go 10 miles once on the kicker at 6 knots. what hell. to fast to fish and too slow to think. Nothing going on and oh look its the same rock I have been looking at for 10 mins.?? Not for me. Does that make all the sail boaters here crazy??? well maybe but you get my point.

As for the electronics comparison I was thinking talking about not being happy with a local supplier not the manufacturer. I like raymarine products but not some of the local shops and installer. They sell to you and then tell you to call a 1800 number if you have a problem. if I wanted to deal with just the manufacturer I would, and I often do.
 
If you look at the boats at MM when you drive by on the freeway, they are mostly Skagit Orca / Osprey style boats capable of doing what Tom is talking about, and which due to the crummy fuel economy, are just not very attractive to C-Dory types who want a simple, reliable, seaworthy, economical cruising boat. Plus they had the incredible bad judgment to buy a Venture 29 which sat on their lot FOREVER it seemed. Not bad people, not a good C-Dory dealer. Which was pretty evident from the first and second days of the SBS.
 
We'd like to thank all the Brats for welcoming us so warmly and making us feel at home at our first gathering!

Roger did a wonderful job of organizing; David - Anna Leigh - kindly made one of his teak hubs available for a donation (we have installed it already on Grey C'Lune - looks awesome); Larry and Cathy - C-Ya - took us under their wing and escorted us around the Boat Show and on a terrific tour of Seattle; we came home with winnings from the draw - the beautiful C-Brats calendar, and some neat floating fishing tools; George - Kerri On - entertained us with his amazing Northwest Passage presentation...the food was great....

We have returned home with good memories, and hopes to renew new friendships in the future!

Snow is still deep here, but we are dreaming.
And now off to the Vancouver Boat Show, maybe....!
 
dotnmarty":21gy0fn4 said:
I heard that MM has a clean used 14 footer for sale so I gave them a call. The guy I spoke to in Sales didn't know much about the boat....
Click to expand...

That's the one I mentioned here a couple of months ago. We'd stopped by on our way to Vancouver and the saleman said they didn't have a 22, but they had a 25. It's, um, the same gray 22 that's at the boat show. <sigh>

FWIW, after I posted that message about the CD14 I thought about it a bit more (my wife thought it was cute and it's just possible I could hang it on the stern of my trawler) so I called them back and asked if we could arrange a sea trial. Answer was no. Asked if I could take it somewhere to try it. Answer was no. Asked how they handled people wanting to test a boat before buying it and the response was "people come here already knowing what the boat runs like and don't need to try it in the water". Pointed out that the CD14 was a pretty unique boat - salesman agreed that was the only one he'd ever seen - and that it would be unlikely that a buyer would turn up who'd already ridden in one. Got some kind of a "yeah, but that's the way it is" response.

BTW, I've been thinking about that guy at the SBS in the MM booth (the guy in the grey shirt in my picture) and it's true, I don't know if he's a MM person. If they have a competitor, then he might have been from them - blockading the only entrance from the aisle, back to the show, ignoring a request to move, turning away from a potential customer...now that I think of it, it could have been a competitor trying to sabotage their sales.

(Roger: sorry if I'm "piling on", but these guys suck)
 
FWIW, I went to the boat show this evening to do a few things and stopped by the Master Marine site. The lone C-Dory seemed to have a lot of people crawling all over it and I stopped and spent about 15-20 mins talking to an older couple who looked like serious buyers. Many of the standard questions. I explained how the boats hold their value, are economical to operate etc. etc. I showed them my previous 22 in the collage photos, talked about fishing, etc. I don't think I sold them a boat but maybe I did.

I did encourage them to visit the C-Brat site and ask any questions of us they want to. I also explained that the C-Brats is one of the best post purchase support groups around. I explained to them how if you buy a C-Dory, it's a little like joining a "cult" because the owners group (the C-brats) are a bit fanatical about our boats. I did feel a little weird though being at the Master Marine site (the only C-Dory in the show) while referring them to the C-Brats site where they might find this thread trashing the only dealer with a C-Dory at the show.

On an unrelated topic, we did buy a dinghy for the Tomcat. We got a good deal on an Alaskan series boat (the 240 TDS in white). I looked at the corresponding boats from Maritime's Marine Center as recommended by Keith. While those boats were well made and about 1/2 the price of the Alaskan series, they were different in many regards. In particular the Alaskan series seams are interlocking folds prior to gluing while the Maritime ones were just overlapping and glued Those difference plus a few others I could see made me wonder about things I couldn't see. So we got the Alaska model.

I also ordered the Mustang bibs to match my Mustang coat and I picked up some fishing lures from LSF.
 
blindbaybob;
I wouldn't be making plans to come to Vancouver for the boat show, don't think its going to happen this year as our BC Place Stadium doesn't have a roof on it. I haven't even seen anything in the local papers about a floating boat show..... your only "fix" this year will be the Seattle show
Jimbo
 
Hi there the Vancouver Boat Show is definately on, it is being held at the downtown convention center quite close to the floating show in Coal Harbour. Seminars are being finalized right now and it should be a good show. A lot less non boat stuff I hear as compared to other years. George
 
Strictly from a business point of view: if any business has stock that they don't like, don't understand, or don't promote, that is an indication of poor business practices. I understand the premise of "sell what you like"; I don't understand any business that feels a product they are handling isn't worth their time, especially if there is a market for that product. If that's truly the way they (I'm speaking any they) do business, it would behoove a parting of the ways.
 
Ken, MM's business is indeed their business. I hope they sell all the fishing boats they can. C-Dory's business however is not MM's business, and MM is seriously dragging C-Dory's business down. It feels a little like beating dead horses, but C-Dory needs to be writing contracts and taking deposits at the boat show the way C-Dory used to in 2005 for example and the way Ranger / Cutwater is doing, in spades, this year. It is essential for C-Dory, the boat show is how they need to fill most of their C-Dory production slots for the year. MM ain't going to do it for them, my friend.

B~C":1i1snf1a said:
as a diehard fisherman, I think MM's business is their business. It would be nice if Les was still in the game.
Click to expand...
 
Did anyone besides me see the boats that looked like a C-Dory knock off? They were on the left side when heading towards the north entrance. There was a 14 and a 22. Very, very basic, made the C-Dory look plush. The 14 was priced at $15,000 with power.

I don't know the guys who are building them, but somebody thinks the basic concept is still sound.
Lyle
 
Back
Top