Yamaha vs Suzuki

B

bschell

New member
I have a Yamaha 90 hp engine on the 22' the year of the boat and engine is 2003. I have had no problems with this engine over the 14 years, it has 2000 hours. My wife and I are having a new boat built to be ready in July, my builder just got news over Christmas from Yamaha due to retooling at the factory (and other excuses from the factory that seems a little odd) all engines over 175 hp are sold out world wide and will not be available to purchase till early 2019.

Question #1: Can anybody add information that is in the know?

Question #2: Like I posted in the subject and this would be for the newer engines 2017 and 2018. How do you think they stack up (compare). I am trying to research as much info as I can about the Suzuki's
 
Soundings For Trade only had an article on Dec 13 about the delay.

Also Yamaha is rumored to bring out a new model Jan 11 (rumored to be a SHO 90).

Outboards are available from dealers who have them in stock--but if it is a large builder they will get those motors substantially discounted from what a dealer would sell them for...and thus would not buy as a retail customer.

I have owned a number of Suzuki motors, and like all there have been a few issues. But all in all, the issues are no more than any other outboard manufacture. I currently own a Suzuki and it has run very well for a number of years.
 
What hp are you looking at ? Why not look at Mercury also ? We went from a 2005 Yamaha 115 to a 2016 mercury 115 CT engine .The merc is quieter handles much better around the marina ( bigger prop) The Merc is a 2.1 Litre vs a 1.8 Litre also was a $1000 cheaper . As far as resale the Yamaha do a little better down here in Florida . There is also the dealership that you will be working with what brand do they sell? As far as corrosion from salt water It seems the Merc and Yamaha are better then the Suzuki or Honda's down here it SW Florida
 
I too am confused about what hp engine he is asking about. He says he is building a new boat to replace his older CD 22, and Yamaha engines above 175 hp are temporarily unavailable. So it is doubtful it is a new CD 22.

He posted this yesterday and hasn't answered the fundamental question- what size engine is he looking for? It would also be nice to know what boat he is having built,

David
 
Yamaha has really screwed up and their brands [Skeeter,G3 and The powermatched Yam. only brands like Grady White] will get all the motors .
We sell Yamaha , Honda and Suzuki and Suzuki has become our # 1 motor as supply, warranty and pricing are all better than Yamaha . Incidences of problems are very low for all the motors we sell , but Yamaha has had their share lately .
There are more and more Suzuki dealers and the service network is getting better all the time .
Honda is pushing to get more "transoms" and is doing exclusive deals with a few brands including Rosborough. They are pumping R&D [moldmaking and new models ] money into boat builders that will partner exclusively . Yamaha has done that for years and is pretty strongarm about it .
I would look hard at Suzuki especially in the inline 150/175/200 .Its a great motor and we have had few issues .
Marc
 
I'll preface this by saying I'm a Honda guy. I trust the brand to get me home time and time again. They're just incredibly reliable 100% of the time on many different outboards I've ran.

Looking at all the brands right now, Suzuki is really ahead in terms of their warranty, dealer network and they are priced well below competitors. If I decided to not go Honda due to cost, it would be Suzuki.

After running a low hours 2009 Yamaha F225 on our Parker for a year and a half, I would not consider Yamaha. Bad relays and electrical gremlins on a low hour engine is unacceptable in my opinion. Certain things are not as well engineered (fuel filter/water sensor housing under cowl is a PITA for example).
 
It may not be a reliable indicator, but the so called guide boats down here are mostly 30' sleds with huge tiller steered outboards. There are probably close to a hundred of them around during the salmon season. By a long shot, the most prevalent motor on them is Yamaha, followed by Mercury. Honda is next, and then Suzuki.

The number one choice for choosing between the major brands is the dealer and the post sale service they can provide. My dealer of choice (Sportcraft Marina in Portland) does not carry Yamaha so that brand was not even considered although the observation with the guide boats would have made me strongly consider it if my dealer had them.

When I repowered last summer I went to the dealer planning to get a Honda but they convinced me that Suzuki was the best fit for the CD25. Comparing them side by side the Honda looks much more refined in construction than the Suzuki. The Honda has sleeker lines and more of the mechanical workings are concealed or blended into the appearance. The Honda looks like a Corvette engine whereas the Suzuki looks more like a lawnmower motor. I am hoping those differences are just cosmetic and do not say anything about the internal build quality.

I only have about 80 hours on my new Suzuki DF200 so I can't give a long term report on it, but I will say I like everything about it except the fact that the oil filter is behind a cover panel that has to be removed to change the filter, and I can live with that. The performance is amazing. The lower gearing lets it use a 20" pitch prop giving it a great hole shot plus more authority at slow speeds around the dock. The overall fuel economy on my heavy old boat with bottom paint is above 2.5 mpg all the time, and often above 3 mpg. The top speed is higher than I want to go - the CD25 gets a little squirrelly at 40 mph.

I'm pretty sure I am going to remain a Suzuki fan.
 
Snce we seem to have gone beyond just considering the two engines that the OP asked about, does anyone have any experience with the Evinrude E-Tec engine?

Thie E-Tec is a direct fuel injected two stroke engine where no oil is mixed with fuel. Lube oil is directly injected into the cylinders and bearings. This means several things:

Meets all EPA standards.
Has the low speed torque that we used to love with two stroke engines.
Does not have any valve train or large crankcase, so the engine is lighter.
Does require a large oil reservoir, but with enough capacity for 100+ hours.
No oil changes, so service interval is 300 hours.
Fuel economy is as good as any 4 stroke.

Any experience with these?

David
 
DavidM":11wvwx9r said:
does anyone have any experience with the Evinrude E-Tec engine? David
Click to expand...

If I was ordering a new O/B it would probably be an Evinrude. A good friend of mine who is a mechanic and owns a marine repair business swears by them.

Our Navy spec'd out their latest RHIB order with Evinrude power - something like 100 fewer moving parts. They normally want the best - so go figure.

Cbrat Jim Tidwell recently repowered his R246 with a 300hp Evinrude - he told me it "transformed the boat". Said it was almost half the weight of the twin 115 four strokes it replaced. A Cdory could benefit from that. As well a lot of Cbrats like to push the season and they can be winterized from the helm.

Regards, Rob
 
I can comment on Etec engines. My current boat is a 2006 25 cdory with a 2006 200 HO. The HO stands for high output. It’s known as a big block(3.3 liter vs 2.8 L on the standard 200). The engine has almost run flawless in the 9 months I’ve had it. It really jumps out of the hole. Zero complaints about power. They claim it has 223 hp at the prop.

Bought the boat with 130 hrs and now it has about 285 hrs. The engine is a gas guzzler. I’ve been averaging 1.5 - 1.6 mpg. This is at cruise speeds 3500-4000 rpm, 15-20 mph. Last trip out was to port orchard from Des Moines marina, 45 mile round trip took 34 gallons of fuel (1.3 mpg) averaging about 18 mph

I have just posted a topic here to rent or borrow a trailer. I’m planning to re-power my boat with a Suzuki 200 in line 4cyl.

My research shows the G2 Etec to be very good, they claim the best on the market. Statistics say 40% improvements from Gen 1 Etecs. Yet, I’m going with Suzuki, they claim they are the best also. I’ve struggled with my last 115 Etec, current 200 Etec is awesome except for fuel burn. The XT-100 mixing oil is expensive also ($45 per gallon)
David at Auburn sports and marine says the best motor on the market is the one that is taken care of. He says that poor maintenance is the largest issue.

Brett
 
IMHO - all the engines are great now a days. Some have longer warranties, but to me it's all about where your local mechanic is located and how many are there.

For me it's a Yamaha/Merc guy that's closest. Been on the Yamaha band wagon since 2010.

I believe Suzuki has a 6 year extended warranty that all my buds are buying.

If repowering I would look at the additional cost of the cabling and gauges. Personally I would skip new gauges and get everything on the sonar/fishfinder, but that's me.
 
Brett
I have a 25 with a Yamaha 200 HPDI engine and it too is a gas guzzler at the speeds you mention. However if I run at 30 to 35 mph my fuel flow meter shows 2.4 to 2.6 mpg. No complaints about that. If I going to run slow for a long while I drop my 9.9 kicker in and run on that.

I guess I just can’t figure out how I’d save money by buying a new engine?😇
 
bschell":1j52yorq said:
I have a Yamaha 90 hp engine on the 22' the year of the boat and engine is 2003. I have had no problems with this engine over the 14 years, it has 2000 hours. My wife and I are having a new boat built to be ready in July, my builder just got news over Christmas from Yamaha due to retooling at the factory (and other excuses from the factory that seems a little odd) all engines over 175 hp are sold out world wide and will not be available to purchase till early 2019.

Question #1: Can anybody add information that is in the know?

Question #2: Like I posted in the subject and this would be for the newer engines 2017 and 2018. How do you think they stack up (compare). I am trying to research as much info as I can about the Suzuki's
Click to expand...

In 2012 I purchased & installed a DF-175 Suzuki on my 2003 25 cruiser, it now has 1500 trouble free hours on it. No flies on the Suzy.
 
The original post was comparing Yamaha to something else :wink:

Suzuki might be good, I don't know. There is mention made of considering your local service department or mechanic. Good advice. Also, considering your warrantee length is worth while. No one has yet mentioned that it might be worth considering your cruising area.

Tyboo noted the proliferation of the Yami's on the guide sleds down on the Columbia. That is also what I noticed up in Canada, (northern half of Vancouver Island) and I talked with several of the water taxi folks up there. Most were running the big yami's on the work boat ( water taxi or guided fishing), up into the 3-4000 hours bracket and then transferring them onto their personal boats for another 1-2000 hours.

The Yamaha dealers and service places are plenty going north of the boarder, and a US boat can go in anywhere there and get parts or service. There are not issues of taking your warrantee across the boarder. I don't know how that works with Suzuki, but I do know that with Honda, if you are a USA boat in Canadian water and have to go looking for parts or service in Canada, you are screwed. That has been noted here on this site before, and it could make a difference if you are considering extended cruising in CDN water. Might be something to consider too.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_055.highlight.jpg
 
I know this thread old but wanted to comment. I just received a price list from Marty for the entire C-Dory line. My wife and I are interested in a 25. We love the Tomcat but can't afford it right now.

We are hoping, praying to order a new 25 or find a new one next year. I just asked Marty what the build time is, haven't heard back yet. Or if we happened to run across a newer used one I would look a that also but that seems unlikely.

So I was just looking at motor packages. Not sure if twins or single and kicker. Single and kicker probably be my choice. But.... if an Evinrude 2-stroke can be spec'd that would be something I'd want to look at. As a former motocross racer I was able to rebuild my 2-strokes when I was a kid. I have also owned 4-stroke racing motorcycles and yes the power is amazing but they are a pain to work on and expensive. Great, now I have to do more research:-) I've heard great things about the Suzuki and that's probably the direction I'd go if 4-stroke.

I also owned a boat diesel engine service business years ago and have rebuilt many of the older diesels. The technology has gotten so much better and complicated with all engines. I won't touch my personal trucks and cars anymore.

I'll see what data I can find on the 2-strokes. Be interesting to learn more. I'll share if I learn anything worhtwhile.
 
There is sort of a love / hate relation with the Evinrudes these days. I probably would not consider any of the other 2 strokes. I used to run nothing but OMC motors before the 4 strokes.

For the 25, if I were to repower it would probably be the 4 cyl Yamaha 200 hp. The Suzuki 4 cyl. and the Yamaha is the same block as the 150. I got a quote on the Suzuki and it was a decent deal. I suspect you would pay a few thousand more for the Yamaha. I did have the 150 Suzuki's on the Tom Cat. They were superb engines on that boat. But it is a hull which lends itself to higher speeds (in the high 40's) and has a comfortable ride. The Yamaha is 2.8 Liters, the Suzuki is 2.867 Liter --practically the same. Suzuki 529 lbs, Yamaha 487 lbs. only 40 lbs difference. The gearing is different, but There are more larger props for the Suzuki (16" diameter). These would be for the extreme of trying to push a displacement boat. But coming onto a plane, I would rather have more blade area. (ie 15.5 vs 14.75). So the Suzuki wins there. It also boils down to what service is available.

Looking at Evinrude 2 stroke G2, the weight and displacement are pretty close to the 4 strokes--no major advantage. There are those who like the lower interval of maintenance.

If you run the 25 loaded for cruising, the 200 will serve you well. When our boat is light, we can get about 30 mph (statute), when loaded for a month cruising, we are looking at 22 or so, causing in the 18 vs being able to cruise in the mid 20's.
As the fuel and water burn off, then the boat begins to cruise easily in the low 20s with a Honda 150.
 
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