Yamaha, 4 stroke motors
- Thread starter Jim Rose
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Captains Cat
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HONDA
PROBABLY A 90 IF YOU WANNA GO FAST...
PROBABLY A 90 IF YOU WANNA GO FAST...
I am unhappy with my boats power. I would like it to run when heavily loaded like it does when it is empty. SOOoooo....Get a 90 H.P. EFI. You can get 75 H.P. from a 90 H.P. engine at a lower RPM without having to run wide open. With the 75 your only getting about 60 H.P. at cruise.
Usually more economical and less wear/strain on the more powerful engine running lower rpm's. If you need the extra power, with the 90 it is available. The 75 is usually a detuned 90 so the engine/weight is the same. That puts you at a disadvantage just in the engine. Less power with the 75 VS. 90 only moving the same engine weight. Yea the CD was originally made for a 2 stroke 75. But a four stroke 75 usually weighs about 100 pounds more. So it takes more power just to move the extra weight of the 4 stroke engine. Now add the boat weight and all the gear that a CD can carry and performance only goes on down.
My boat came with an 80 H.P. which is a detuned 100 H.P. I carry lots of camping stuff. When the boat gets moving good and smooth it's close to the upper limit in RPM's. No engine is economical at full power. Not a day goes by that I don't wish it had at least 100 H.P. engine. (It does it just puts out 80 H.P.) A 115 would be about perfect. Nothing worse than an underpowered boat.
If you only cruise with a few people and keep the boat light a 75 may be ok. But if your not satisfied it is a costly upgrade. Resale is generally better and easier with the largest recommended horsepower engine. You may want to ski, have kids or grandkids that would like to be towed on some water toys. I know the CD isn't the best ski boat but with a little H.P. and smooth water you can just have more fun. Makes the boat that much more versatile.
Check out the Evenrude E-TEC for 2 stroke lightweight cutting edge technology and 90 H.P. The best of both worlds. Made in America, too. :thup
Usually more economical and less wear/strain on the more powerful engine running lower rpm's. If you need the extra power, with the 90 it is available. The 75 is usually a detuned 90 so the engine/weight is the same. That puts you at a disadvantage just in the engine. Less power with the 75 VS. 90 only moving the same engine weight. Yea the CD was originally made for a 2 stroke 75. But a four stroke 75 usually weighs about 100 pounds more. So it takes more power just to move the extra weight of the 4 stroke engine. Now add the boat weight and all the gear that a CD can carry and performance only goes on down.
My boat came with an 80 H.P. which is a detuned 100 H.P. I carry lots of camping stuff. When the boat gets moving good and smooth it's close to the upper limit in RPM's. No engine is economical at full power. Not a day goes by that I don't wish it had at least 100 H.P. engine. (It does it just puts out 80 H.P.) A 115 would be about perfect. Nothing worse than an underpowered boat.
If you only cruise with a few people and keep the boat light a 75 may be ok. But if your not satisfied it is a costly upgrade. Resale is generally better and easier with the largest recommended horsepower engine. You may want to ski, have kids or grandkids that would like to be towed on some water toys. I know the CD isn't the best ski boat but with a little H.P. and smooth water you can just have more fun. Makes the boat that much more versatile.
Check out the Evenrude E-TEC for 2 stroke lightweight cutting edge technology and 90 H.P. The best of both worlds. Made in America, too. :thup
Captains Cat
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Sneaks":2oiwmrkm said:
Just commenting on his choices, 75/90. I don't have a 90, but I gots the equivalent in my two 45's! :lol:
charlie
A
Anonymous
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Captains Choice":15u6el2w said:
"HONDA"
Captains Cat
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C'mon out Don. Not sure what you tow with but my Dodge has a 488CI V-10 in it. That sucker will pass anything but a gas station :smilep
And that's not good with gas here at $3.10 a gallon. At least it burns regular.
You guys got some rough water if it has a 6% grade in it...Must be a left coast thing.
As for Red Fox.... :moon I think he's just jealous...
I dearly love his pictures though, they are great!! :thup
charlie
And that's not good with gas here at $3.10 a gallon. At least it burns regular.
You guys got some rough water if it has a 6% grade in it...Must be a left coast thing.
As for Red Fox.... :moon I think he's just jealous...
I dearly love his pictures though, they are great!! :thup charlie
Captains Cat
New member
In reviewing Tyboo Mike's poll on outboard choices earlier this year...
Evinrude 9% [ 13 ]
Honda 52% [ 72 ]
Johnson 5% [ 7 ]
Mercury 2% [ 4 ]
Suzuki 9% [ 13 ]
Yamaha 19% [ 26 ]
Other 0% [ 1 ] BTW, what else is there? Tohatsubishi?
Total Votes : 136
And, if I recall, 26 of 30 boats at the Eastern Shore Gathering had Honda power, there must be a reason, something besides good press? I'd still buy a Yammi if the deal was good though, as I said in an earlier post, the real key isn't the decal on the hood, it's whether it starts :thup when you turn the key, it gets you out and back and it doesn't cost too much to maintain... Each to his/her own! :wink I do like those EFI engines, mine look too much like the motorcycle engine on my son-in-law's HOG. :smilep
Still like the Fox's pix! :lol: :lol:
Charlie
Evinrude 9% [ 13 ]
Honda 52% [ 72 ]
Johnson 5% [ 7 ]
Mercury 2% [ 4 ]
Suzuki 9% [ 13 ]
Yamaha 19% [ 26 ]
Other 0% [ 1 ] BTW, what else is there? Tohatsubishi?
Total Votes : 136
And, if I recall, 26 of 30 boats at the Eastern Shore Gathering had Honda power, there must be a reason, something besides good press? I'd still buy a Yammi if the deal was good though, as I said in an earlier post, the real key isn't the decal on the hood, it's whether it starts :thup when you turn the key, it gets you out and back and it doesn't cost too much to maintain... Each to his/her own! :wink I do like those EFI engines, mine look too much like the motorcycle engine on my son-in-law's HOG. :smilep
Still like the Fox's pix! :lol: :lol:
Charlie
Captains Choice":1hrfz0da said:
Been there, owned one 'a those beasts, Charlie. Great engine though nobody but Dodge will overhaul them and even Dodge just puts a crate engine in when they get long in the tooth. And you're right. Flinging almost $100 at a gas pump makes anybody cringe.
I tow with a Chevy Duramax/Allison fitted with an Edge Juice/Attitude module. Trust me, you'll lose in a towing match. Juice Level 3 is perfect for towing a C-22. 300 hp and 600 ft. lbs. of torque while still giving 11 mpg while towing! Even Red Fox would be happy with it. Especially if the C-22 had a Yamaha 150 on the stern and racing stripes on the trailer....
You have to go many miles to find a long 6% grade out there, but if you like, I bet you could talk Tyboo Mike into representing you. :twisted: Arrr Arrrr Arrrr as Tim the Tool man would say.
You guys asked for it .My truck is a Cummins , never needed juice box. A real mans truck has 6spd, packs 4000pds sliding camper + pulls the C-Dory all of that on about 12.5 to 13 mpg. Not bad for big 6 real block diesel. If I would want to go real fast I would buy my self a HEMI. Juice Boxes are made so the Cheby & Ferby can beat those small 6 block DODGE up 6% grade, without those set on 3 or 4 or,,, you would not beat a loaded Dodge up those big hills. Gary SEA RAM
Best answer so far: Chris/C-Weed. Well stated. I'm extremely happy with my 2005 Yamaha 90 EFI engine. Runs just like a new car. Totally renewed the boat, performance-wise. Glad I bought the 90 for the reasons Chris stated.
The rumor is that Honda will add EFI and redesign the accessory systems and lighten the overall engine for either 2006 or 2007 for their 75 and 90.
We'll know real soon if it's 2006, because the boat shows are about to start. Wouldn't want to buy a new engine the year before it was finally updated.
If you don't want to wait on Honda, just buy the Yamaha, they have today what Honda wants for tomorrow. Joe.
The rumor is that Honda will add EFI and redesign the accessory systems and lighten the overall engine for either 2006 or 2007 for their 75 and 90.
We'll know real soon if it's 2006, because the boat shows are about to start. Wouldn't want to buy a new engine the year before it was finally updated.
If you don't want to wait on Honda, just buy the Yamaha, they have today what Honda wants for tomorrow. Joe.
On the way back to Louisiana from Seattle, after we picked up our c-22, we got a solid 14 - 15 mpg the whole way. The only time I had to down shift to 5th gear was climbing a pass east bound between Washington state and Idaho. The truck only had our gear (equivalent in weight of one person), and the two of us in it. The boat was full of fuel and water.
My truck is a 2002 Dodge Ram 1 ton dually with a 6 speed with 78,000 on it.
I run all synthetic lubricants, and only burned 1/2 qt of oil round trip.
Law
My truck is a 2002 Dodge Ram 1 ton dually with a 6 speed with 78,000 on it.
I run all synthetic lubricants, and only burned 1/2 qt of oil round trip.
Law
I have a 75f and can't be happier with it. In my opinion it has more than enough power. I use it for water skiing, fishing, and have hauled lots of people and camping gear. Always gets up on step in a heartbeat. I saved 1000.00 over the 90f and have no regrets. Make sure you get the right prop.
Yep, I'm definitely in C-Weed's and Sea Wolf's camp. We got a CD-22 this year and love it. However, we were both brand new to boating and depended on the advice of our salesman regarding powering the engine. He told us that 70 hp was sufficient, that all the CD's used to be rigged with 70's. So they convinced us that a Suzuki 70hp was the way to go due to the fact that it was fuel injected. It wasn't until after our boat was rigged that we started reconsidering the 90 hp as opposed to the 70 hp that was installed. Looking back, we should have switched out to the 90 right then and there while it was still at the factory. All season, it's felt like the boat has been underpowered. We know our prop is not right because we haven't ever been able to reach the RPM range at WOT. So at this point, I will change the prop to a 13" pitch to tell whether or not it's the engine or the prop. So far, we like the Suzuki, we haven't had any problems with it. It's quiet, starts right up and trolls smoothly at a very low speed but I guess we'll have to see if we're having a problem with it after switching out the prop. In either case, it's been extremely frustrating not being able to have that extra power when we need it. We usually run with full gas tanks, full water tank, lots of gear and need the extra power a 90 hp would provide.
So, if we were to do it all over again, we would have definitely ordered the 90 hp over the 70 for the $900 or so difference in price. Now, if we wanted power up, with approximately 80 hours on the engine, it will cost at least $2500 (new motor less trade-in + labor).
I'm pretty sure we'll be moving up before next season but we'll hold off for now seeing as how Joe mentioned that Honda might be coming out with EFI.
Good luck in your decision-making. Hope this helps.
Peter
C-Dancer
So, if we were to do it all over again, we would have definitely ordered the 90 hp over the 70 for the $900 or so difference in price. Now, if we wanted power up, with approximately 80 hours on the engine, it will cost at least $2500 (new motor less trade-in + labor).
I'm pretty sure we'll be moving up before next season but we'll hold off for now seeing as how Joe mentioned that Honda might be coming out with EFI. Good luck in your decision-making. Hope this helps.
Peter
C-Dancer
I still have difficulty seeing how 90 hp will have any perceptable difference over a 75 in actual use if both are properly mounted/propped. Certainly not enough to call 75 hp "underpowered."
My Yamaha EFI 75F will put the C-22 over 30 mph consistently in flat water and it always planes in less than 7 seconds. Because our boating is almost always So Cal salt water, rarely do conditions allow a comfortable ride in excess of 15-17 mph, and our usual very comfortable cruise setting is about 13 mph. At no time do we feel underpowered, nor do we have trim tabs. It does list to starboard when I'm single handling it, but that's a function of my fat arse, not the boat itself. It's also true (at least for the Yamaha) that the 90 loses some of the 75's low end torque in favor of high RPM horsepower.
I would expect almost exactly the same performance out of the equivalent Honda, Suzuki, or Mercury.
So given those conditions, how would the added 15 HP benefit me, Chris and Joe? Peter, I think you really need to look into both the prop and possibly the engine mounting height itself.
Oh, and as an aside to the Dodge proponents, my 11 mpg figure was based on towing our 8,000 lb. 5th wheel, not the Jenny B. I have no mileage figures for that rig since so far the longest tow was about 120 miles, but all bragging and teasing aside, there ain't much difference between the stock common rail diesel offerings anymore.
My Yamaha EFI 75F will put the C-22 over 30 mph consistently in flat water and it always planes in less than 7 seconds. Because our boating is almost always So Cal salt water, rarely do conditions allow a comfortable ride in excess of 15-17 mph, and our usual very comfortable cruise setting is about 13 mph. At no time do we feel underpowered, nor do we have trim tabs. It does list to starboard when I'm single handling it, but that's a function of my fat arse, not the boat itself. It's also true (at least for the Yamaha) that the 90 loses some of the 75's low end torque in favor of high RPM horsepower.
I would expect almost exactly the same performance out of the equivalent Honda, Suzuki, or Mercury.
So given those conditions, how would the added 15 HP benefit me, Chris and Joe? Peter, I think you really need to look into both the prop and possibly the engine mounting height itself.
Oh, and as an aside to the Dodge proponents, my 11 mpg figure was based on towing our 8,000 lb. 5th wheel, not the Jenny B. I have no mileage figures for that rig since so far the longest tow was about 120 miles, but all bragging and teasing aside, there ain't much difference between the stock common rail diesel offerings anymore.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hey ya gize... I went F-115 mostly cuz it's built like a brick you-know-what :!: internally made more stout (that's why it's so much heavier than the F-100 or 90 :!: ) no, don't really need the extra horses of the 115 (though windin-her-out on flat water is exhilarating) it's the heavy-duty part I like most, should last longer!
The F-115 is in a class of it's own, and only Yamaha would go to lengths to make it so. Me thinks anyway
Get anal.... looks at the 'specs when makin a choice...
I better get outahere now....
:embarrased
The F-115 is in a class of it's own, and only Yamaha would go to lengths to make it so. Me thinks anyway
Get anal.... looks at the 'specs when makin a choice...
I better get outahere now....
:embarrased
Sneaks,
Believe me, I would not wish anything more than to know that I'm getting optimum performance out of my Suzuki DF-70. Being inexperienced and all, I'm hoping that the prop situation takes care of my power problems. All I know is that the RPM range is 5200-5800. Our RPM at WOT is 4400 at best. We've only been averaging 12-14 knots and reaching only 18-20 knots at WOT in flat water. I have been reading posts regarding the proper prop size and pitch and hopefully the 13" pitch does the trick. If that takes care of the problem and we start getting the same perfomance as you do, I'll be happy as a clam and hopefully won't feel the need to add an additional 20 horses.
Thanks for the tip on the engine mounting height. That will be the next thing to look at.
Peter
C-Dancer
Believe me, I would not wish anything more than to know that I'm getting optimum performance out of my Suzuki DF-70. Being inexperienced and all, I'm hoping that the prop situation takes care of my power problems. All I know is that the RPM range is 5200-5800. Our RPM at WOT is 4400 at best. We've only been averaging 12-14 knots and reaching only 18-20 knots at WOT in flat water. I have been reading posts regarding the proper prop size and pitch and hopefully the 13" pitch does the trick. If that takes care of the problem and we start getting the same perfomance as you do, I'll be happy as a clam and hopefully won't feel the need to add an additional 20 horses.
Thanks for the tip on the engine mounting height. That will be the next thing to look at.
Peter
C-Dancer
Peter / C-Dancer-
That Suzi DF70 is built on the same block as their DF60. They both have 79.2 cu. in, or 1298 cc. Two valves per cylinder, SOHC. Nice and light at 335 lbs.
The Yamaha 75 and 90 are built on a block with 97 cu. in or 1596 cc. Four valves per cylinder, DOHC. 369 lbs.
The Honda 75 and 90 are built on a block with 97 cu in., or 1590 cc. Three valves per cylinder, SOHC. 384 lbs.
The Honda and Yamaha 75 and 90 are 23% larger in displacement than the Suzi 70.
The Suzi 90 and 115 are built on a block with 118.9 cu. in, or 1950 cc. 416 lbs (!) The Yamaha 115 has 1741 cc, the Honda 115 2254 cc.
The Suzi 90 has 150% of your displacement, the Yamaha 115 134%, and the Honda 115 174%. Think they all have a lot more torque than a Suzi 70? If displacement relates to low end torque and final horsepower, you may find much of your answer right here. Bigger motors are bigger motors.
Averaging the three 90's together, we get Honda 1590 cc, Yamaha 1596, and Suzi 2254, for a total of 5440 ccs, and an average of 1813 cc, some 40% more displacement for the average 90 than the Suzi 70.
So it would appear that there's quite a bit of difference between your Suzi 70 and the 75 and 90 Hondas and Yamahas and certainly the Suzi 90, which is probably quite a brute since it can put out 115 horses in "tuned up" form.
The organization that regulates motor manufacture, the National Marine Manufactures Association (if I remember correctly) also allows a + or - 10% variation between the advertised horsepower and the actual dyno numbers.
I bought the 90 just to be sure I wouldn't be short, period. Hasn't disappointed. The extra 15 horses just make up for the rough bottom paint, but oh well, I'm still doing 30 flat out and loaded up! Joe.
That Suzi DF70 is built on the same block as their DF60. They both have 79.2 cu. in, or 1298 cc. Two valves per cylinder, SOHC. Nice and light at 335 lbs.
The Yamaha 75 and 90 are built on a block with 97 cu. in or 1596 cc. Four valves per cylinder, DOHC. 369 lbs.
The Honda 75 and 90 are built on a block with 97 cu in., or 1590 cc. Three valves per cylinder, SOHC. 384 lbs.
The Honda and Yamaha 75 and 90 are 23% larger in displacement than the Suzi 70.
The Suzi 90 and 115 are built on a block with 118.9 cu. in, or 1950 cc. 416 lbs (!) The Yamaha 115 has 1741 cc, the Honda 115 2254 cc.
The Suzi 90 has 150% of your displacement, the Yamaha 115 134%, and the Honda 115 174%. Think they all have a lot more torque than a Suzi 70? If displacement relates to low end torque and final horsepower, you may find much of your answer right here. Bigger motors are bigger motors.
Averaging the three 90's together, we get Honda 1590 cc, Yamaha 1596, and Suzi 2254, for a total of 5440 ccs, and an average of 1813 cc, some 40% more displacement for the average 90 than the Suzi 70.
So it would appear that there's quite a bit of difference between your Suzi 70 and the 75 and 90 Hondas and Yamahas and certainly the Suzi 90, which is probably quite a brute since it can put out 115 horses in "tuned up" form.
The organization that regulates motor manufacture, the National Marine Manufactures Association (if I remember correctly) also allows a + or - 10% variation between the advertised horsepower and the actual dyno numbers.
I bought the 90 just to be sure I wouldn't be short, period. Hasn't disappointed. The extra 15 horses just make up for the rough bottom paint, but oh well, I'm still doing 30 flat out and loaded up! Joe.