Windlass/Rode splice problem

[TyBoo]

I have a brand new Lewmar 700H windlass and the recommended Lewmar 8-plait rode, also new. The windlass does have the upgraded spring and finger already. The splice at the chain will not transition thru the gypsy without help from me.

That help is either crawling up into the berth, opening the locker and dragging the wet line across the cushion so I can pull on it while flipping the windlass switch, or climbing out on the deck and stomping on the windlass to force the tension finger to shove the splice down into the gypsy. Both of those methods are unacceptable.

I wrote to Lewmar and got a quick response suggesting I work the splice by bending and twisting it to limber it up. I did that to no avail, and I also beat the crap out of it with a hammer and whittled off the stiff melted material left over from heat sealing the line ends. Still doesn't work. Lewmar's other suggestion was to soak the splice in fresh water with a cup of fabric softener. I haven't done that yet, but I know it will not make the splice any smaller as is needed. It is simply too big and it climbs out of the nip of the gypsy pushing the tension finger up with it.

Beyond that, he says the splice will need to be retied. I have asked for instructions that a poorly skilled old man can follow easily.

Does anyone here know of a good way to splice this 8-plait stuff to the chain that wont result in a big old dog knot fully two and a half times the rope diameter?

I really like the way the 8-plait lays out in the locker and do not want to go back to 3 strand rope. That, and it was rather expensive but I learned a while back not to scrimp on rode to run thru a windlass. Turns out it might not have been a bad idea to get some cheap stuff.

Thanks for you help and ideas.

 

[Sunbeam]

I'm not sure which splice method you used, but I followed the one outlined on the Yale website, and although I haven't tried to put my splice through the 700H yet (decided not to mount it until I'm going to someplace with deep anchoring), it's not huge (not that I have measured, but I don't think it would be 2.5x). Maybe I'm just dreaming in thinking it will pass through the windlass without issue... Now I'll definitely be reading to see what others say who have used the 700H and the brait spliced to the chain.

I'll see if I can dig up a link to the splicing instructions I used and post back with it.

Edited to add: I used these, plus a related video:

http://www.yalecordage.com/pdf/brait_to ... splice.pdf

BTW, I found it slightly hard to figure out just going by the instructions (had to start over once), but when I added some "just look at it common sense," plus marked the strands with various colors prior to splicing, it suddenly became reasonably obvious how to do it.

PS: Can you tell more about the upgraded spring and finger? Like when were they upgraded? I wonder if mine needs upgrading before I've even installed it! (Purchased it around early 2014.)

 

[TyBoo]

I'm not sure which splice method you used

I bought the rode with the chain already spliced. The splice Mr. Lewmar used looks like the one in the video you provided (Thanks for that!) with the rope splice fully behind a single chain link. That is what makes it so bulky. I think it would work better to somehow thread the strands of rope thru several of the links and spread it out the way they do with the 3 strand rope. I don't know if that will work with the fancy 8 plait stuff.

PS: Can you tell more about the upgraded spring and finger? Like when were they upgraded? I wonder if mine needs upgrading before I've even installed it! (Purchased it around early 2014.)

Here are front and back pics of the upgrade kit. A friend at work (when I still had a job!) has the same windlass without the upgrade and his line was constantly coming out of the gypsy when paying out. He told me about this after I had ordered the windlass so I ordered a kit for each of us. My new windlass was delivered with one of the upgrade already there but I elected to keep the kit for when the spring and finger get worn. I think it was about $90.





If your windlass already has the side plate/guard at the back of the gypsy you are good to go. If not, you can get it through www.imarineusa.com by calling them up and giving the part number. You will want it according to the guy where I used to work.

 

[Sunbeam]

Thanks very much for that info. I'm going to be at the boat in a few days and I'll take a look at the windlass. If it's not there, I now have the golden part number. Nothing like a part number!

I *think* most people use the single-link rope to chain splice with windlasses, but I guess we'll see what others who are actually using theirs have to say. Of course mine works fine when I'm pulling up the rode hand-over-hand :wink:

 

[TyBoo]

I know my previous 3-strand rodes had the rope threaded a ways up the chain. I found this link here that shows how to do the long splices with both types of rope. Anyone have any thoughts on the second method showing the 8 strand rope?

I am thinking I will pull it all out of the locker and practice splicing the bitter end of the rope to the other end of the chain. If I get one that looks like it will hold I can cut the original splice off and hook that end of the chain to the anchor.

 

[Hunkydory]

Mike, I had Defender do my splice & on occasion it slips at the splice, but a quick stop & start gets it through & this is without the upgrade. Perhaps someone more skilled did mine.

This year on our Alaska cruise it was doing as you described when letting out line, so very thankful for your upgrade information.

Jay

 

[AstoriaDave]

Mike,

If you want company in your misery, and perhaps the opinion of someone who works with splices day in and day out, you might take that premade splice in to Danny in the cable shop down at Englund Marine. Either Danny or Vaughn (sp?) probably could sort this out and or provide a couple clues for the new rode splice.

Danny has been especially helpful when I had a rigging problem I could not solve.

Anybody there can hook you up with Danny, but maybe Sheila, just outside the warehouse access, might be the go to person.

 

[Sunbeam]

BTW, here is a link to Lewmar's instructions for installing the upgraded piece mentioned above. I googled the part number and found the part on Defender's website, is why it is a Defender link (but it's a Lewmar document).

Over $100 - kinda hope I already have it! (But then of course I can't begrudge the boat a shiny new part, can I...)

http://www.defender.com/pdf/002541.pdf

 

[TyBoo]

Thanks Dave! The thought had crossed my mind to take it to Englund. Now I know who to ask for. What about their shop over here in Warrenton? What goes on in there?

I could also get Sturgeon Paul to direct me to a local expert, I'm sure. He's kind of a knothead himself.

 

[B~C]

If a new and improved splice doesn't cure your problem you might fab up a pedestal to raise your windlass so the rode contacts the gypsy at point below the finger. On my set up, where the windlass sat and the way the bow and and the roller where angled, the rode was trying to lift the finger. A lift kit helped....that and another 25' of chain for a total of 45'. With my lift kit and the added weight of the chain to help seat the rode in the gypsy, I ain't had no problems. good luck

 

[TyBoo]

A lift kit helped....

You kids these days. Want to put a lift kit on everything. All that will do is chew up the u-joints and screw up the front end alignment. Besides, I have enough trouble getting in the damn boat as it is.

My line is running a little uphill already from the roller and the windlass is the exact profile as the one that was on there for the last 11 years. The weight of more chain would probably help but I didn't need that for the last eleven years either. I'll try to do the long splice myself since I got nothing else to do anymore, and then when I get frustrated with trying to shove the rope through the little loops I'll haul it all into Englund Marine and see what they can do.

Or maybe the Lewmar guy will send me a new one since I told him I was going to rat them out on the internets. If worse comes to worse B~C, I can have you go to Delta Park West Marine and get me one of your super deals on a new bucket of rope.

 

[AstoriaDave]

Thanks Dave! The thought had crossed my mind to take it to Englund. Now I know who to ask for. What about their shop over here in Warrenton? What goes on in there?

I could also get Sturgeon Paul to direct me to a local expert, I'm sure. He's kind of a knothead himself.

LOL. All the characters live in Warrenton, I guess.

That EM outfit in Warrenton Is their raft shop only. The two guys who work there know dry suita aka survical suits, rafts, EPIRBs, etc., anything related to survival. The cable shop on Pier 3 is where the splicing guys hang out. There is a new guy in training. Not sure if he could help

 

[TyBoo]

Alright, so I followed the instructions I linked to, incomplete as they were, and did the lace the rope thru the chain links splice. It will lift the back of my old Ford pickup without slipping and it goes thru the gypsy real good so it the old splice has been cut off. My splice is kind of ugly, hence no pictures, but it is slightly above knothead quality so it's back in service.

 

[Sea Wolf]

]...........did the lace the rope thru the chain links splice. ..............

That's what I did when I had problems with my Quick 500 windlass and three-strand rope and chain. I developed my own spice with two of the three strands braided forward though the chain and sewn at each crossing through about eight-ten lengths, and the third strand braided backward through the rope itself. (See photo below.)

There isn't any way you can splice a rope doubling back through itself and not have it bigger at first than the original rope, with gradually tapered strands or otherwise.

I also increased the spring pressure on the gypsy finger (called the Fleming), and went to 100 feet of chain up front so most anchoring occurs without even using the rope section.

On Edit: I also made a wired remote up and down control that I could pass up through the front hatch and operate the windlass from the fore deck without having to go back and forth to the helm when clearing debris, mud, fouls, stuck anchors, etc.

Live and learn (and improvise!) :lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup


Click on image above for several explanation photos.

Joe. :teeth :thup

 

[hardee]

Joe said,

On Edit: I also made a wired remote up and down control that I could pass up through the front hatch and operate the windlass from the fore deck without having to go back and forth to the helm when clearing debris, mud, fouls, stuck anchors, etc.

Live and learn (and improvise!) :lol:

Hi Joe. I thought about that this summer. Do you have that written up or pictures anywhere? I'm thinking that might be a really good upgrade idea. :idea:

It might let me go forward and watch and wash on retrieval, instead of just spinning the boat in crazy circles to wash the chain and anchor when I retrieve.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Sea Wolf]

Harvey- Will try to draw up a schematic and take some photos when I get back from a weekend trip tomorrow and Monday.

It's an easy project.

However, it will work only if your windlass has a relay type contactor where the up/down switch works on a low amperage circuit, and there's a relay in the contactor that sends the high amperage current out to the windlass.

This is the way most of the windlasses work. The dash at the helm has a small amperage up/down switch which tells the contactor/relay which way to send current through the reversible DC windlass motor.

However, many of the smaller Lewmar (formerly Simpson/Lawrence) windlasses pull the full 80 or so amp current through the up/down switch right on he dash, without a contactor/relay unit. The dash switch carries the full operating amperage of the windlass right though it, reversing the current in the switch itself because of the way it is wired. This works best for small windlasses in the 400-700 size.

Larger ones have so much current that it's simply easier to do it though a relay, plus you usually have a much larger boat with the larger windlass, and the desired helm location for the switch is often a long way from the batteries and the windlass. My Sea Ray windlass battery, it's dedicated charger, the windlass itself and the contactor are down below and forward in the V-berth, quite a ways from the flying bridge.

A remote for one of the smaller types would have to have wires capable of carrying the full 80 amps up to the remote at the bow from the helm and back again, and probably have to be at least 6 gauge or larger!

More info later!

Have a great weekend!

Joe. :teeth :thup

 

[Sunbeam]

Harvey,

Also depending on which windlass you have, Lewmar makes a wireless remote. I know that you need to have the relay/contactor, but other than that don't know the specifics. It was available for my Lewmar 700H (~2013/2014 model).

 

[NORO LIM]

Harvey,

Also depending on which windlass you have, Lewmar makes a wireless remote. I know that you need to have the relay/contactor, but other than that don't know the specifics. It was available for my Lewmar 700H (~2013/2014 model).

Here's the remote I got from Lewmar when I replaced the old directly wired switch on my 700V.


The original switch was installed by the builder in 2006. I don't know if a Lewmar contactor/solenoid switch was available for the 700V then. By a couple of years later, however, I had read and heard enough about failures of the direct switches that I decided to look into a change. (An inspection of the wire connections on the original switch added a little urgency!) By then, at least, a contactor/relay was available for the 700V. Since the new switch made a remote possible as a practical matter, I got one of those too.

Although the installation of the contactor/relay was a bit of a PITA due to a cramped location, I was pleased with the outcome. (Lewmar, by the way, was very helpful with phone advice.) The remote definitely makes retrieval and clean up a lot easier. It also comes in very handy after laying out the rode for inspection and cleaning - you can stand on your dock or driveway and manage retrieval.

Here's a link to a page in my photo album with a few more (probably not real helpful) pictures of the installation. http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

 

[Sunbeam]

That looks a little different than the one I have, just for comparison. It's this one, and is wireless:

More detail here if anyone is interested:

http://www.lewmar.com/products.asp?id=8836&lid=27469

It looks like it basically works with any of their windlasses that use a solenoid (which I think they sometimes call a contactor), but it does mention to contact them with any questions. It does work with the "stock" 700 (Pro, horizontal) that I got last year.

 

[NORO LIM]

That looks a little different than the one I have, just for comparison. It's this one, and is wireless . . .

Wireless is definitely cooler and more convenient and versatile. I thought long and hard about which one to get. In the end, I couldn't shake the image of the cellphone that slipped out of my pocket, skittered across the deck, teetered, teetered,:shock: teetered, and then with hardly a sound . . .
I concluded that a more or less permanent tether was a better plan for a guy with hands and memory that aren't what they once were :lol: .