Why You Need a Kicker!

[Pat Anderson]

We JUST finished a cruise of about 275 NM - a 6 NM from our launch / retrieval ramp in Blaine, an alarm sounded. Checking the BF150 Manual, we quickly determined it was the alternator alarm. We turned the engine off, and checked by switching the ignition on - the red battery light, also indicating charging system malfunction came on and stayed on.

Hondas are remarkably reliable engines. A lot of people have only a big Honda main with no kicker. I went to Alaska and back with only a big main.

Today, however, we traveled the last six miles on the kicker, and if we had not had one, we probably have had to call Vessel Assist. Not sure what would have happened if we had tried to run in the last 6 NM with the charging system not working, but we just did not want to chance it...

 

[Anonymous]

I second that, I have had to come in twice on the kicker, once due to water in the main and once due to fishing line in the main prop in weather that was too dangerous to attempt removal.

 

[localboy]

About 2 miles from Squalicom yesterday the main suddenly revved from 3500 to 5000 on it's own. I thought we had spun the prop. At least we have a kicker now so I wasn't THAT concerned.

Found out it was just a huge clump of eel grass which prevented the prop from grabbing water (cavitated). Once free, we were back in route. But yeah, having that peace of mind was priceless.

 

[nordicstallion]

I quickly learned the difference between a trolling motor and an auxillary motor.Trolling is for fresh water & an auxillary is the difference between inconvience and life threatening.I exercise main & auxillary once a week or so. Good insurance!!I kissed that kicker when I needed it,cost was insignificant.Vern/C-Dog

 

[Captains Cat]

Pat, Les will have to confirm, but I think it just means that the alternator is AFU (technical term) and not charging. The remainder of your trip should have been ok. Glad you had an alternative tho. Hope it's not expensive.

That cove where you were anchored looked awesome on FB!

Charlie

 

[starcrafttom]

Have to agree with Charlie, your could have made it the rest of the way with out the Alt. A Alt does not do anything while running but charge the battery. The motor its self should have be just fine until the battery died. The battery will get so weak that at some point it will not run all the electronic of a modern engine. Takes a while if you have a full battery.

 

[Grumpy]

Put this one in the record book. Pat read the manual!!! :lol: :lol:

Always a PITA when ($#it) happens but at least you had another means of propulsion rather than the mandated Paddle which has always amused me. (Not).

Hope it is something simple.

M

 

[rogerbum]

Have to agree with Charlie, your could have made it the rest of the way with out the Alt. A Alt does not do anything while running but charge the battery. The motor its self should have be just fine until the battery died. The battery will get so weak that at some point it will not run all the electronic of a modern engine. Takes a while if you have a full battery.

I agree with the above except the statement "Alt does not do anything while running but charge the battery". I also supplies the electrical power that provides the spark to the spark plugs. When the alternator gives out, the batteries rapidly drain and the the engine will quit. It won't hurt the engine but I don't like to fully (and rapidly) discharge the batteries.

 

[C-Nile]

Today, however, we traveled the last six miles on the kicker, and if we had not had one, we probably have had to call Vessel Assist. .

Having a kicker -- high and dry -- out of the water, and there when you need it gives me such great peace of mind. I am amused every time someone tells me how reliable engines are that auxiliary engines are not necessary. There is no doubt that the Honda is a fantastic engine, but like all engines, it is a complicated machine with many moving parts, both electrical and mechanical. My five failures on the water with my CD 16 were the result of a faulty wiring harness, and my kicker got me home four of those five times (the first time, I did not have the kicker.)

If engines never failed, Vessel Assist, TowUSA, and SeaTow would not be in business. Ironically, today I met a couple with a 34 foot Rinker, and they had a blown water pump. They got back to port with their second engine. In New England, I have seen a lot of boats this year that were being towed for mechanical reasons.

It would be interesting if anyone had access to any statistics -- empirical data -- that would demonstrate that today's engines are more reliable than the past. I'm not convinced.

Thanks,

Rich

 

[starcrafttom]

yes roger it has to provide the spark but that , as you pointed out, can come from the battery until it dies, as I pointed out. My point is that will take a while. Not sure how long on my 225 honda but it took about 6 hours in my 71 datsun 510. I had to save up to replace the alt in it and just charged the battery everynight before going to bed so I could go to work in the morning. when the starter went out I parked on hill for two months. We really need a smilely face thats missing a few teeth.

 

[chimoii]

At the risk of being a s**t stirrer. Would having twins have done the job as well as a kicker?

 

[ghone]

I run a single as I never fish. I think a good case can be made between what is a kicker for trolling and what is get home power. I see some boats around in the 22 ft range with 2 and 4 hp kickers. I think the owners believe they can get "home" on these. Maybe at 2 knots. I think a reasonanable get home power for a cd22 may be as big as an 8 or 9.9 even. If my engine goes down on inshore waters like gulf islands or san juans I believe I'd be happier coming in at 12 knots on my boat us membership. An 8 or 9.9 is Pretty big to be packing around if you don't fish and for just in case. If one has a dinghy and outboard for it you can always lash it alongside and move along. Although trying for 20 miles at 2 knots I think a call to boat us is immenent. George :thup

 

[Golerud]

We have a 23' Cape Cruiser with a 115 HP Yamaha. Since we fish, I added a 9.8 Tohatsu for trolling. It will go as slow as .8 MPH, and reach the top speed of 5.5 MPH according to the GPS. Fortunately we haven't had the need to use it to get home. Almost all of our boating so far has been fresh water lakes.

Gary

 

[hardee]

I run a single as I never fish. I think a good case can be made between what is a kicker for trolling and what is get home power. I see some boats around in the 22 ft range with 2 and 4 hp kickers. I think the owners believe they can get "home" on these. Maybe at 2 knots. I think a reasonanable get home power for a cd22 may be as big as an 8 or 9.9 even. If my engine goes down on inshore waters like gulf islands or san juans I believe I'd be happier coming in at 12 knots on my boat us membership. An 8 or 9.9 is Pretty big to be packing around if you don't fish and for just in case. If one has a dinghy and outboard for it you can always lash it alongside and move along. Although trying for 20 miles at 2 knots I think a call to boat us is immenent. George :thup

George, I think you are onto something there. (The difference between a trolling kicker and a get home auxiliary power unit.) Not to turn this into a "twins vs single" debate, but, in Pat's case, there is a pretty slim likelihood that the alternator would have gone out simultaneously on a set of twins, and the ride home could have been accomplished in any weather/tide/current condition on the other half of the twins team.

As to towing with a dingy. Can be done, and I have seen it on a couple of occasions. The most curious was a guy towing a 30 - 35 ft SAILBOAT with an inflatable dingy, southbound headed for Friday Harbor, in the passage off the Wasp Islands. When offered assistance, he said he was doing OK, didn't need any help. He was solo and, OH, BTW there was about an 7 - 10 knot breeze :roll: Oh well, sailing ain't what it used to be. :lol:

Now back to Pat's originally scheduled theme.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[rogerbum]

Tom - the only time I had a alternator go out on a car I seem to remember only getting 30-ish mins before the battery was drained.

 

[Sunbeam]

... in Pat's case, there is a pretty slim likelihood that the alternator would have gone out simultaneously on a set of twins, and the ride home could have been accomplished in any weather/tide/current condition on the other half of the twins team.

Would half of a set of twins be that powerful on a "twin" prop? Or were you thinking he would change props to a spare "single" prop?

I'm in the midst of making some decisions about power/style/kicker, so these things are on my mind.

 

[Fun Patrol]

If you have a newer Honda BF 150, it will have a nice 51 amp alternator. Honda claims it will charge your batteries at around 40 amps above 2000 rpm. That missing 11 amps is what it takes to run the ignition and fuel injection systems. So...if you have a decent 100 amp-hour battery, you will get several hours running time with a non-op alternator, depending on what else you have running electric load-wise. (Probably best to turn off the sterio). In addition, most well setup boats will have 2 batteries, so more time.

As far as kickers, I run a Honda 8 on my 22. I would like to not have that 70# on the stern, but it will power a fast dinghy, troll, propel the 22 at around 5 knots easy, AND, that size kicker has a charging loop..just in case you might need power for your radio or running lights. Not much, but it will get you there..AND, it's a pull-start so even if someone throws all your batteries overboard, you can get home.

Have fun out there!

Roy

 

[Sunbeam]

I run a Honda 8 on my 22....that size kicker has a charging loop..AND, it's a pull-start so even if someone throws all your batteries overboard, you can get home

I've been lamenting the (in my case) ~108# of kicker that's hanging on my transom. On the other hand, I like the idea that if I needed to, I could pull-start the kicker and then it would charge my batteries (thus allowing me to start the big motor if that was the situation). I hadn't thought of the fact that that also means the kicker will run without any battery at all - that's a nice bonus. (I don't know why I "forgot" that as I grew up with small outboards that never even had batteries.)

I've been debating going to a 2hp combination dinghy/kicker, even though it would be minimal (but, low weight and dual purpose). Seems that all configurations have their plusses and minuses.

 

[hardee]

... in Pat's case, there is a pretty slim likelihood that the alternator would have gone out simultaneously on a set of twins, and the ride home could have been accomplished in any weather/tide/current condition on the other half of the twins team.

Would half of a set of twins be that powerful on a "twin" prop? Or were you thinking he would change props to a spare "single" prop?

I'm in the midst of making some decisions about power/style/kicker, so these things are on my mind.

I don't know. I didn't know that there is a difference between a prop and a "twin prop". I thought they were propped for the size of motor (hp) and the max RPM attained at wide open throttle (WOT). Can't really see how my twin 40's could be propped for a single, or in the reprop process, there was nothing mentioned about "are this running as a single on the boat or are they working as one of a pair of twins".

I did go from 4 blade to 3, and from plastic to aluminum and got improved RPM and a hint of higher top end speed.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Sunbeam]

I didn't know that there is a difference between a prop and a "twin prop". I thought they were propped for the size of motor (hp) and the max RPM attained at wide open throttle (WOT). Can't really see how my twin 40's could be propped for a single, or in the reprop process, there was nothing mentioned about "are this running as a single on the boat or are they working as one of a pair of twins".

I'm not a pro, but the way I understand propping motors, there would be a difference. I may not be able to explain it correctly (or may not even be correct), but here is what I believe:

Any engine has a specified WOT RPM. If you can attain that RPM at WOT, then by definition you are running the engine at levels that will not "lug" the engine (which is bad for it). Instead you are running at a certain percentage of the available horsepower (think about running your car at 30 mph in 5th gear vs. doing the same in 2nd gear; I think running a twin at high speed alone on a "twin" prop would be more like the former).

If you are pushing a light boat (or have a large engine for the boat size), then you would use "X" prop to power it (determined by going to WOT and figuring out which prop gets you to the mfgr. stated top RPM). If you are pushing a heavy boat (or have a small engine for the boat size), then a different prop would get you to that sweet spot. By definition, the same prop would not really do it for both extremes.

A "small" twin (small because it is only half of your planned horsepower) would actually be propped as half of a team. That is, the prop is only able to turn the engine up to the proper RPM at WOT if it is operating in tandem with its "other half." If it's operating alone, but with the prop that makes it work properly as a set of twins, you would not be able to reach the proper RPM at WOT, and would thus be lugging the engine/running inefficiently. My guess is that if you take your boat out and run both twins together, you will get your mfgr-specified WOT at top speed, but that if you try the same thing with one twin alone, you won't. Probably both engines were run together to determine which props would work best for your setup.

OTOH, if you were propping the boat planning to run with a single 40 or 50 hp engine, I think you would choose a different prop (because you would be testing for the correct prop by running up to WOT with just the one engine, and going for the correct RPM that way). You would not get the same top speed (because, 40 hp can't do as much as the 80 hp you have with twin 40's), but you would probably get a higher speed, and more importantly, not be lugging the engine.

So my guess is that if one were going to use a single "twin" to get home in "any weather/tide/current condition,' that you might want to change to a "single" prop. Because I think (but don't know for sure) that if lugging the engine you would also not be getting the best power out of it, which you might well need in bad conditions (you would also be lugging, but if it's an emergency you probably would not "care" about hurting the engine).

Okay, now the people who really know can come in and point out where I'm mistaken (please do!).

Sunbeam :hot