Why we don't post...

Marty-

OK, I'll print 10,000 of the C-Brats burgees and distribute them for free to all our C-Brat members!

However, it'll be your job to moderate the discussion this time and get 100% agreement on the final design before the printing. (And I'm voting NO on all of them!)

Good Luck with your mission, Mr. Wise Guy!

No, not this one either!

burgee.sized.jpg

Joe. :lol:
 
What those blank post represent to me is duel-fold. One being the wise decision to ignore and not join in and add to something one feels doesn't belong here and the other is if nothing is posted to keep up the interest and enjoyment of many than there is not much to keep some of us tuned in. Total peace and tranquility may be a noble idealistic goal for many but in reality we are several thousand people joined together by similar boats. I see arguments made against the controversial by the very ones who will generate controversy to make there points.

Seems working toward just being nice and avoiding what you don't approve would be so much simpler and less hurtful overall.

I really doubt the ones who are generally involved in these more controversial topics are the ones sending the PM's that are causing Da Nag the angst. From school days on in all groups there always exist the self appointed hall monitors and here I believe they have accomplished their goal. For me the enjoyment is gone, so its time for a hiatus until the enjoyment hopefully returns someday.

Jay
 
rogerbum":2eor2jl9 said:
1) Because after awhile you get tired of arguing arguments you can't win or with people who don't listen
2) Because excessive arguments make me a bad person
3) Because I really don't want to offend others with my opinions (even if I think they're wrong - I value their friendship more than the point)
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Wow - 22 replies and 360+ views to what most people thought was a blank post....
Above is what was actually in the post but I set the color of the text to the background color so it appeared invisible.

So some context: I've been one to reply to posts that I didn't agree with. I felt a need to "represent the other side" - the left leaning brats. I felt a need to provide some alternate insight and sometimes some scientific knowledge or perspective to posts that disagreed with the prevailing (and likely correct) scientific viewpoint.

What I learned over time was that, for the most part, many posters had their minds made up on specific issue and (facts be damned) they would believe the prevailing view of their political party, favorite radio talk show hosts or simply the opposite of those they historically disagreed with. I also learned that the more I replied, the more disagreeable topics would be brought to the front and the more people just interested in boating would be annoyed.

Hence during the past several months, I simply avoided posting in response to threads that were clearly going to generate dissent and annoyance in our midst. It's not that I personally wouldn't enjoy "sparring" with a particular poster, I just came to realize that most wouldn't be half as entertained by the sparring as I would be. I've also come to recognize (or believe) that certain posts were designed to generate arguments or at least were likely to do so. For example, I love Oldgrowth Dave dearly but I believe that the recent topic on toll roads was posted to find others that would disagree with the proposed law and rail against it on this board. That may not have been Dave's overt intention, but the likely response was certainly predictable.

Hence, I chose not to reply. Not because I don't enjoy sparring with Dave but because I didn't feel like exposing the rest of the community to this. Ditto for my reason for not responding in detail to other recent threads such as the one on the potential ESA listing of Puget sound Orca.

Hence, inspired by Fred's post titled "Why we post", I thought I'd start a thread on "Why we don't post". Then in the middle of that post, I thought it would be amusing to make my post appear blank just to see what it stirred up. So I took the text above and colored it in the same color as the background. The result was a 22 post thread with some apparent controversy within. I think that Fred's post was right-on and that in addition to considering why we post, we should also consider why not to post.

In brief, if one of your primary motivations for posting is simply to be heard, maybe you shouldn't post. If one of you primary motivations is to be helpful, post away!
 
Jay-

I have a great deal of respect for you and agree with all you have said with one important point of exception:

All of the encouragement we have offered to get those who enjoy controversy and confrontation has not resulted in the changes back toward a more peaceful boating centered site that I think most of us desire. Time and again, things get uncomfortable as some members have at each other.

Sooner or later someone had to step forward and confront the issue and those who wouldn't focus on boating topics and follow the "just be nice" rule. I choose to stick my neck out and take on the issue because I feel very strongly about it.

One only has to go over to the largest boating site around, "The Hull Truth" to see how negative and disrespectful, even hateful, a site without controls can become. Give it a read!

I personally wouldn't care if members discuss anything as long as the exchange is civil and respectful, but our history shows that sooner or later, a non-boating and potentially controversial issue usually goes off the deep end.

I'm sure Bill and/or Mike don't like to lock down these errant threads, either, but what are we to do when things get out of control?

I may be right in the eyes of some C-Brats, and I may be wrong in the eyes of others, but I'm standing firm in my belief that most of us want this to be a boating site with the focus on our C-Dorys and Ranger Tugs, not an "anything goes" soapbox or blog.

I believe in what I've said, and I've taken the risk of saying so, and incurring the consequences.

I'm sorry and I apologize for being so forward and direct in this matter, but as I started to point out above, subtle suggestion hasn't worked.

This is just the latest in this recurring crisis regarding controversial issues, and it's time to find a solution for the sake of our C-Brat community.

I'd appreciate feedback in the form of PM's from other C-Brats, pro or con.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
OK-OK-OK !!! I think i get it now., whew, reading all thoes posts gave me a headache. got a good idea why don"t all u lucky brats start talking about your c- dorys & tugs. were waiting out winter here on the east coast dont forget so lets hear about your boats , think you guys are gettin bored i"m gonna have to start putting up some questions , cause i know i"ve got lots . C- BRATS are the best lets not forget it. ========john
 
Roger/SeaDNA, Jay/Hunkydory and Joe/Seawolf, help me out a little here. As a new member/owner I get that a toll road post should find another home Posts which lead to dialog about the health of our playground or the harvest we seek as we enjoy what we have in common seem entirely in order. Am I wrong? Now looking back, the post which started off the chat about the health of the Puget Sound was a bit charged and I get that it would be nice if the tone both in the base post and comments achieved a 90% or better on the nice scale. What I am not getting is why any post and chat about an issue relevant to us as boaters would be banned rather than moderated.
To be clear, I don't seek a fight even on this question. But I do seek some sort of reply. No sales, no politics (for politics sake) no religious based threads, all good ideas. Still, while the "boats are going to be banned" thing was over the top, the underlying discussion had some value. Understanding the range of views had value and learning as a community to talk about some of these boating related things in a positive way also it seams has value. No?
 
Steve and Kath,

I see that you recently joined us Brats, welcome aboard!!

The only rule here is 'JUST BE NICE'. It is so simple and yet can be difficult for us to apply to what we have strong feelings about.

I, personally, think that posts about C-Dorys, boats, our boating environment, fishing, exploring, and so on are good subjects to discuss. Posts about politics, religion, over-the-top environmental or other sensitive topics have to be handled with great care. It does no good to 'p**s off' a bunch of us nice folks!!

If someone reads a post here and gets all 'hot under the collar', I suggest that instead of banging out an angry reply, they should go to another thread and leave the 'hot topic' thread alone. If you just have to reply, go ahead and type your reply, but don't hit the 'submit' button. Copy and save the text and later, when the heat of the moment has subsided, read your text and see if the JUST BE NICE rule has been met. If it has, then send your reply.

Remember, we can only edit a post for 30 minutes, so post with care. When people are talking face to face, we don't usually start a fight. When we are in the privacy of our homes, we tend to forget the effect our words can have. If in doubt, leave it out!!

All the above is my opinion, only the Site Administrators, Tyboo and Da Nag, can actually dictate policy.
 
Larry, I am with you on everything you said. A question though. Were you giving me sort of the general advice or did you read my posts and think I went too far in what I said?
 
Steve,

I have reviewed your posts on this thread 'PNW C-Brats beware!!!' and I think they are fine.

My post above is actually general advise for members new and old.

Larry H
 
Capn Steve & 1st Mate Kath-

Welcome Aboard!

This has become a very difficult and sensitive subject.

Here are some considerations that must be taken in reaching any conclusions about the subject:

1. This is a boating site devoted to the C-Dory and Ranger Tugs, primarily.

2. There are a large number of related and relevant subjects that could be discussed besides those that are specific boating topics.

3. The only real rule we have is "Just Be Nice" regarding postings.

4. Certain topics, such as those of political, religious, or otherwise sensitive subjects sometimes tend to become contested between members and the discussion can, and has, at times, gone beyond the limits of the "Just Be Nice" rule.

5. Some members have deliberately brought up sensitive topics, knowing full well that controversy will ensue. Baiting the trap, so to speak.

6. It has been necessary for Bill and/or TyBoo to lock down some threads to stop the negative interchanges.

7. We've been through this discussion before, trying to find a way to control the discussion of and on these sensitive topics.

8. If you read through those discussions, I think you'll see that we've agreed that political and religious topics are for the most part, off limits, but there are relevant boating topics that have political and, of course, economic implications.

9. I don't think anyone, including myself, really wants to limit the discussion here to only topics directly related to boating, but how to we keep these other discussions from crossing the line?

10. And who wants to be the gestapo, cutting off discussion?

It's a dilemma, for sure.

One answer is to not let the obviously controversial off-boating topics get started. Many others are perfectly acceptable and encouraged, e.g., the discussion of health sleeping habits by Hardee. But who's to decide which topics to allow?

Another question is how to control or limit the discussion of boating related topics that get heated up and cross the line.

I don't know of any simple answer to this, either.

Some will say just to ignore the issue/postings/contestants, and they will go away, but I don't think that works, as the contestants are having "fun" having at each other in front of the C-Brat audience.

So what's to do?

Who's to moderate the discussion?

In formal debates in school or in civic groups, someone plays the moderator and everyone abides by the rules of debate, even including Robert's Rules of Order. Contestants must be versed on both sides of the issue and can be selected to present either side. Civility is the order of the day, even though a forceful presentation is both required and accepted as a part of the debate. The best presented ideas win the debate, not the side that attacks the other most negatively while presenting its case.

Clearly, we need a way to ad some limits to our discussions while allowing a return to a broader range of topics. How do we do this?

Or do we just go back to Square One and say "Just Be Nice" and let the cycle begin again?

Sorry to be so wordy, but I don't want to be misinterpreted.

Sincerely,

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Joe, I have a idea that might work.

If you don't like the thread don't read it!

I do that with about 90+% of them. All I can say is for me it works GREAT!


cheers, :beer

James
 
Joe, Thank you for a succinctly stated (as is your usual style) post just above. You have a special way with boiling down the issues and getting to the heart of the matter.

James, I do like your method of "moderation" I admit I practise selective reading here as well. I think I am not alone here in having my opinions in both the religion and political arenas, but I prefer to not agitate or acentuate irritation. I agree that everyone has the right to their own opinions, and to express those opinions. However I also belive that they should be responsible for doing that in an appropriate format.

I considered quite long and hard before I began the thread on Sleep Health here. (not wanting to offend and get booted off, or shut down) but wanting to share about something so important to most everyone here. I had only positive responses, and that has been encouraging and gratifying. There will be occasional updates, but I too believe this site should be boating based so it will certainly not be my primary posting site. Moreso, a source for others to access in a nonthreating way, information about sleep and it's relationship to health.

Peace, Health and Quiet Sleep to All,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Sticks & stones may .............................. will never hurt me. or any other brats . Lets hear about some boats! A 21ec in a rough inlet , would probably be a nice topic ? :lol: : wink: john
 
Maybe this has been suggested - sorry I can't keep up - has anyone suggested a "Rants" forum ala Craigs List?.

It'd be used for all the extraneous stuff and you'd know before entering the forum it has little or nothing to do with CD's or boating.
 
CCFlyer, I would have to say that issues which have nothing to do with cdorys or boating are just outside what I am looking for when visiting this site. Though I would not consider your idea offensive it would add to the moderation chore while offering nothing relevant.
One idea that might get at providing a place for boating related information and or issues like funding for boating facilities in a given state or water quality, fish management in a given jurisdiction would be to allow for regional forums covering an established topic scope.
Just my two cents.
 
ccflyer":3knrhraa said:
Maybe this has been suggested - sorry I can't keep up - has anyone suggested a "Rants" forum ala Craigs List?.
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Probably has been discussed. I've kept my keyboard covered through this messy thread but that one woke me up. RVNet has a "rants" forum and, unfortunately, it draws both RV'ers and non RV'ers to the site and constantly spreads (taints) the other forums. Anamosity is contagious.

On the other hand, "Just be Nice" can be equally effective. The problem as I see it is that we've gone from a forum where everyone shared the same hobby and a large percentage of users actually knew each other face to face to a site where that percentage has dropped tremendously. It can be positive but we'll just have to put up with a few negative personalities and deal with them as we have so far. It's been a small price to pay for the tremendous benefits derived.

Just be nice. More than just a catchy phrase....

Don
 
Uncle Don,

I don't necessarily see not knowing somebody face to face as a problem...strangers are only friends you haven't met yet!

Little Nephew


Sneaks":qjq7adst said:
The problem as I see it is that we've gone from a forum where everyone shared the same hobby and a large percentage of users actually knew each other face to face to a site where that percentage has dropped tremendously.
Don
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