Wallas or not?

Agree - it seems to me there are only two types of Wallas owners - those who have had problems with it, and those who are going to. Yesterday we noticed a huge amount of smoke coming out of the exhaust - billowing white smoke, and the sucker shut itself down. Fortunately we were almost finished cooking breakfast, did the eggs on the butane single burner (Sunday breakfast you know!). It did start up at lunch time, and it is running right now (It is a BEAUTIFUL morning in Matia Cove!). But I don't think we ought to live in constant fear of it failing all the time.


El and Bill":2cbxjbp2 said:
Finicky, over-engineered, prone to failure, expensive fix 'em up for too many folks and we have run out of patience waiting for a replacement.
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But I don't think we ought to live in constant fear of it failing all the time.
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Agree. Virtually all of us have a backup for it by now (and in my case the backup replaced it). The most frustrating thing of all was to have something half cooked and it would shut down. Although I don't like propane (not in my RV, not anywhere), I have to admit it is pretty much 100% reliable.

The only trouble I could have got in with the Wallas was early on when I got into an isolated location in 23º weather with no backup (and at that time no generator) and that was foolish. Shortly after I got back, it went into the double start mode (took two tries to start it) and things went steadilly downhill from there.

It did run all night last night (half-flame) again, so that's what I've got (plenty to heat the cabin, cook a burger with, etc.) at this point. If it will simply start and not shut down anymore on 1/2 flame I'm happy with the thing.
 
Fred and Pat --
What kind of gas stove did you have put in by Cutter? The Webasto looks like a good choice, according to Barry, and we're wondering if that's what you put in.

We also don't like propane/butane on a boat, but it looks like that might be the most reliable choice.

FLGold -- Yep, our master electrician did do all the wiring and fuse scrubbing/replacing on the lines to and from Wallas -- we had high hopes, but to no avail. Thanks for the suggestion. It could easily have been overlooked and been the problem.
 
Bill/El: The next thing would be the igniter plug needs a cleaning (that is easy -- but in pulling out the Wallas you'll invariably get some fuel sloshed and there will be smoke in the cabin from that for some time until it cooks off). After that, if there's a big ball of white smoke that comes out the exhaust on start, then it shuts down with another big ball of white smoke and a POOF or POW like .22 going off, that was the symptom of my fuel pump being bad.

Probably easiest to do what you're doing . . . replace (good luck).
 
I personally like my alcohol stove. Am used to it from other boats, prefer the smell of alcohol to other chemical smells. Figure it is as simple and safe as it gets. I carried a one burner propane camp stove for awhile to use in cockpit on hot days, or for a really fast cup of coffee, but quit doing so, not worth the space. The alcohol stove also gives you more storage underneath but if you go with some other diesel heater then you will give the space back.

The Wallas stove was something I thought I wanted while looking for my boat, in good part because of the good experiences El and Bill had with theirs. I have several propane ice shanty heaters and do carry a small one on board. I use it only in daytime. It warms cabin, defrosts windows, and puts out water vapor. I have windows open or fan running or both when using the little heater. Nonetheless, I look forward to running that little heater when I return to the boat after a cold, rainy dog walk. So not having the Wallas what I give up is - dry heat when anchored out (I use electric at dock). The rest of the time I don't need it. I am still mulling installing a Webasto or Espar or Wallas heater with ducts. One that could duct to the windshield would be nice.

But the stove is something I use every day. The heater not every day, not even every month, although some months you use it every day.

Not trying to hijack this thread - but under the same general idea of comparison systems -

Some things I discussed with another 22 owner this weekend were the personal choices we made in outfitting our boats.

I said some things I thought I really wanted turned out to be not so and other things turned out to be important to me.

So things that were once on my must have list:

Twin engines - (got those and like em but single would be fine also)

Hydraulic steering - my boat doesn't have this but my Sportpilot Plus works pretty good helping displace the advantage of the superior autopilot systems available with hydraulic steering.

Tall top - At 6' 1" thought I needed this but turns out the standard top is fine (and looks better) :wink: I am shrinking and the compressed cartilage makes me a good fit in the regular top. Not sure I would choose the tall top now.

Factory floorboards - Glad I missed out on these I almost had them shipped with another load of boats. As Bill wrote - the factory floorboards are a solution in search of a problem. I have drydeck down with cheap carpet when fishing, and with several floor mats down in place of the carpet when crusing. I can put the floormats up if it is raining so my pup always has a dry resting spot. I like the depth of the cockpit, the simplicyt of no system, and hardly notice the "curved" deck.

Radar arch - Got that and use it a lot. I don't often assemble my dinghy but it fits in front of my low style radar arch.

Electric wipers - Nope I like the manual ones. I insist on a large center mounted compass so if I ever put electric wipers on they will go above the windows. As a guy walking around with dirty glasses I am used to focusing beyond the lakedrops on the windows.

Battery charger system - Yeah insist on that, whether you go with factory shorepower or the extension cord type. Built-in chargers are deluxe. I installed this twice in my boat, once for two batteries and then redid it this spring when I went to three battery system.

Trailer with bunks - Got rollers instead . It turns out I love the ease of launching. I think bunks would be better for camping in the boat and long term support but I am not so worried about the strength of the hull anymore and the rollers sure make single handing easier.

Still mulling bimini or camper canvas, I thnk the Webasto is more likely to happen first.

Regards,
 
Not For Hire

Hey Mark-

Thanks for the update and being so honest!

Amazing what happens when sweet theoretical advantages run smack dab into the real world of practical everyday boating!

The old KISS Principle comes through in so many simple and subtle ways inside a small boat. Finally, less is really more!

Seems like all this personifies the engineer's challenge, to make something that works, yet keep it simple enough to be reliable.

Agree with all you've noted, except to caution that the Webasto may be a little too big for the 22. A heater with too large an output has to cycle on and off too much, wearing out the components. It's also a bit complex, but not nearly as much so as the Wallas, and a lot more reliable, as far as I can understand.

For those who don't know, Webasto and Espar diesel heaters (same basic design) keep a lot of kids warm in our school buses.

Keep us posted on further ideas!

Joe.
 
Hi El and Bill,

I would second the alcohol stove as being very simple, easy, safe, and reliable. Our friends have the Origo stove and it works very well.
I have had old alcohol stoves that you had to pump and pre-heat - worked okay.

With the Origo stoves there is no pumping or pre-heating, no warm-up, and no shutdown time. Also no noise. The only moving parts are the little doors over the fuel canisters.

The down side is it is not a heater and adds to the condensation.

Sure hope my Wallas keeps working for many years.

Steve
 
I'm proably going to jinx myself with this post but 4 years running and never a problem with my Wallace. I always have run plain diesel. I have this theory that those who use Kleen Heat are more likely to have problems with their wallace than those who run diesel. I think diesel has better lubricating properties and from all I've seen in previous posts, it's my impression that the problems correlate more frequently with the use of Kleen Heat as fuel. I'd really like to have a survey set up that asks CD Wallace users if they've had problems and what fuel they use to see if their is a real correlation or it it's just my imagination.
 
rogerbum":1sx0rqtq said:
I'm proably going to jinx myself with this post but 4 years running and never a problem with my Wallace. I always have run plain diesel. I have this theory that those who use Kleen Heat are more likely to have problems with their wallace than those who run diesel. I think diesel has better lubricating properties and from all I've seen in previous posts, it's my impression that the problems correlate more frequently with the use of Kleen Heat as fuel. I'd really like to have a survey set up that asks CD Wallace users if they've had problems and what fuel they use to see if their is a real correlation or it it's just my imagination.
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I hope your wrong. I used Kleen Heat from day one. Ok so that's only been a little less than a year and have had no issues. I'll let you know when I do. :lol:
 
For all Wallas owners, my advice. Take it out, flip it over, and dis-assemble it. You'll learn exactly how it works and know how to repair it. Then carry the spare parts you'll need so you can fix it while on the water. In less than one hour you can remove it, disassemble it, repair it, reassemble it, and reinstall it. If you take lots of digital pictures of the process, you can't go wrong.
 
I was asked wheather or not a 7000 btu Weabasto heater would be too much for a CD-22, making it cycle on and off constantly, which is both bothersome and hard on the heater. Here's the response I gave:


The 7000 btu isn't all that large. My Force 10 Cozy Cabin heater puts out 3000 on low and 6000 on high, and I think the Dickinson Propane Fireplace is 4500 and 9000. The average gas stove cooktop burner is 6000, and the larger burners are 7500.

I don't really have any formulas/knowledge of the btu/sq ft or cu. ft ratios.

I did stay in my 26.5 ft Sea Ray last night (first time), though, and the amount insulation in that boat is so great that the larger boat takes only abut half as much heat as my CD-22!

I'm guessing that the Webasto 7000 unit is their smallest, and it doesn't sound like all that much heat, comparatively.

One way to tell is to use an electric heater at the dock on shore power.

On the High setting of 1600 watts, the electric heater is putting out about 6000 btus. On Low, it puts out 800 watts, about 3000 btu's.

If you put the electric unit on High, it should cycle on and off just about as much as the Webasto would.

If the cycling on High is too frerquent, or If you have to turn it down on Low to get it to work reasonably, then the Webasto has too much output to control reasonably.

As a guide, I use an electric heater at the dock here at Lake Shasta, and it can be left on Low all night and runs continuously with temperatures in the mid to upper 40's.

W/O a generator, you won't be able to match the wind chill underway, but a windy night would work just fine.

Hope this helps!

Joe.
 
THE WALLAS GAME;

TumblingDice.jpg



HA!

JOE.
 
I'm not sure about the various formulas for heat btus vs cu ft of space to be heated vs r index of insulation, etc. :) but I will say that my Webasto, their smallest, heats my 22' so quickly that my wife and I find ourselves turning it off after just a few minutes during a day cruise. Overnight at temps above freezing, (40's) I set the thermostat for about 57-58 and the Webasto cycles on occasionally to maintain that temp. It does produce a ticking sound as it operates and I'm told that is the fuel being injected into the burner. It is a rhythmic sound and does not bother us. Some might find it annoying. The blower also makes some noise but I am quite willing to ignore that as the forced warm air comes out of the ducts.

Bear in mind that our Webasto experience is just this year. Who knows, they may have a self-destruct feature built in to activate on the day the warranty expires.
 
Of further note:

The Webasto Airtop 2000 has a High and Low setting that is 7,000 btu's to 3,100 btu's*, just like most of the smaller heaters used in the C-Dory!!!

Look: LINK

Joe.

* equivalent to 2,000 and 900 watts, respectively.
 
HERE"S that Webasto listing on ebay.

Last count: 1075 British Pounds Sterling or $2011.54 (3:30 am, Sunday, Oct. 8, 2006).

On Edit: I first thought the 1075 was U.S. $, but upon closer examination it's BPS (don't know where to get the fancy "L" from for their money symbol.)

THIS IS A "BUY IT NOW PRICE", AND THERE ARE TWO AVAILABLE, SO YOU CAN HAVE ONE FOR THIS PRICE! (UNLESS YOU WANT BOTH OF THEM!}

Joe.
 
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