Two kinds of boaters: liars and those who've run aground

B

Beachnut

New member
I'm a new skipper (2 years), but have been boating as crew for decades. Last week, I had a slow, soft sandbar grounding on my 22. I can blame the channel marker that was missing all its red paint, or I can admit not carefully watching my Garmin or the color of the water in a minus tide. In a known hazard area. Duh. My daughter pushed us off in seconds.

So I subsequently discovered my twin Honda 40s both have issues, but different on starboard and port. Port prop was probably spun and has already been replaced this week. The other new prop for starboard will be here in a couple days and I really hope the starboard engine will be fine after replacing the prop.

Here are the symptoms: both engines start and run fine, got thoroughly rinsed with freshwater after grounding. Starboard revs but only delivers about half the normal thrust and tops out on speed at only about 5 knots. I'm pretty sure that's just a spun prop; will replace it and test this week.

It's my port engine I'm worried about. I did replace that prop already and the problem persists; it starts and revs just fine but the new prop does not spin at all in drive. I did just have spring maintenance done and had a tech swap out my Garmin and transducer. Is there any way the cabling could have come loose coincidentally? Am I looking at a damaged lower unit? What could a slow soft grounding in sand have done to the workings of the lower unit? Maybe my dog gear was about to go anyway. I do know that during maintenance they didn't change the port impeller because the shop said the bolts were seized; so, I have to deal with those bolts anyway. How can I eliminate any other factors before I take apart the lower unit or pay boucoups bucks to have a shop do it? Is there a method to test the shift cabling while on the trailer?

Doctors of Outboards, what's your diagnosis for this port engine not having any thrust?
 
Very unlikely that the tech putting in a transducer damaged the shifter cable or connection.

Does the boat run in reverse? Is there any unusual sound?

With engine turned off, put the engine in drive, and see if you can turn the prop. Put the engine in reverse and see if you can turn the prop. You can also feel it if there is gear damage. It could be the gears in the lower unit, it could be the shifter, it could be the drive shaft.

Unfortunately Honda's are notorious for corrosion and seizing of the bolts on the lower units. Penetrating oil, and heat are going to be the way to get the bolts loose. Be sure that a never seize is used when the bolts are put back in the lower unit--and water pump is checked/changed every 2 years. You are going to check out the pump after this "soft grounding"...I understand you hit a sand bar, but there was some damage done, if the hubs were spun. How fast were you going?

Yes, I have run aground a number of times and done damage; Just not unintentionally in a C Dory--fortunately.
 
I didn't test reverse after realizing I had lost that port drive. So, I put them both in forward and reverse just now, on the trailer, with engines off. The port doesn't turn more than a few degrees, the starboard is quite loose. I've never tested that; should they turn by hand if all is well?

I was going really slow, creeping along at just a few knots, because I expected to see the next channel marker, having been in that estuary many times, and it's notorious. The dredged channel is just a few yards wide.

I ordered a shop manual. I'm a newbie at repairs but have a decebt shop and a mechanically inclined advisor friend. Is it best, given that, to just haul over to the Honda shop in town and pay for expertise? Are lower units difficult to repair?

Thanks very much for your guidance!
 
Beachnut":2bsqjzka said:
I didn't test reverse after realizing I had lost that port drive. So, I put them both in forward and reverse just now, on the trailer, with engines off. The port doesn't turn more than a few degrees, the starboard is quite loose. I've never tested that; should they turn by hand if all is well?

I was going really slow, creeping along at just a few knots, because I expected to see the next channel marker, having been in that estuary many times, and it's notorious. The dredged channel is just a few yards wide.

I ordered a shop manual. I'm a newbie at repairs but have a decebt shop and a mechanically inclined advisor friend. Is it best, given that, to just haul over to the Honda shop in town and pay for expertise? Are lower units difficult to repair?

Thanks very much for your guidance!
Click to expand...


No Should not turn in gear!
I would remove the lower unit in question & make sure the splined end of the drive shaft (where it mates with the crankshaft) is still in one piece :thup There is a pict in my album of a Yamaha broken drive shaft, I haven't been able to figure out posting picts since I was forced to change browsers.
 
Beachnut, Curious, was that in the channel into Mystery Bay? That trip in Kilsuit gets several boats per year. Fun going in, but as you know, doing it carefully works best. I do several trips a year into there.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

0_CD_Cover_SlpyC_with_Classics_MBSP_2009_288.thumb.jpg
 
Yup, Harvey, the R "8" channel marker by the false entrance has all the south side red paint stripped off and it can't be easily seen at a distance. I made the mistake of thinking I could head from R "6" by Rat Island to G "9" by the park beach and be safe. There's a rip there like river rapids! My daughter jumped into 18 inches of water and the current almost knocked her over.

In the years of cruising with a full keel sailboat, I never would have been there in the first place!

Hope all is well in Sequim Bay. Summer seems to have arrived this week, so we can put our warm jackets aside for a few hours a day!
 
Here is a photo of Tsturm's broken drive shaft:

Drive_shaft_end_at_power_head_001.sized.jpg

If it turns in both forward and reverse, there is a problem with the gears, drive shaft or hub. You have a new hub, you should be able to feel some resistance from the gears if they are turning.

The first thing will be to check the shifter, then pull the lower unit--finally tear down the gear case. You are going from cheaper to more expensive repairs.
 
"...from R "6" by Rat Island to G "9" by the park beach and be safe. There's a rip there like river rapids!"
Click to expand...

Yes there is. I have gone through the Rat Island cut a few times, (High tide and after watching a crabber or two). On the tide change it is pretty stout current.

Don't want to hijack your thread so . . . .

Hope your fix is less than a boat unit.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

0_CD_Cover_SlpyC_with_Classics_MBSP_2009_288.thumb.jpg
 
That's very helpful. The photo is scary, like those xrays of your arm you don't really want to see!

Is changing out the dog gear difficult? My shop manual should arrive in a week or so...
 
Beachnut":1xnfsow8 said:
That's very helpful. The photo is scary, like those xrays of your arm you don't really want to see!

Is changing out the dog gear difficult? My shop manual should arrive in a week or so...
Click to expand...

No worse than the driveshaft :thup :lol:
 
The SELOC shop manual just arrived! This is going to be a game-changer for me since I need to become self-reliant in so many ways. It's written and illustrated clearly for the do-it-yourselfer. This weekend I'll follow some of the troubleshooting steps they lay out, and hopefully find easily fixed issues that I can handle. Hey, maybe even change out the impeller! Fingers crossed! Thanks, everyone for your guidance.
 
Stay tuned! Ended up having to work this weekend. As in; the kind of activity that doesn't involve boats and water, but fattens rather than slims the wallet. How parts get paid for!
 
Worked on the diagnosis effort this week, using my new shop manual. Everybody has to start somewhere!

Turns out an important element to the story is the "routine" maintenance visit to a local shop back in May: in retrospect I should have started doing my own maintenance this year, since I probably knew enough from the class at Anacortes, have a shop and basic tools, and could have gotten advice right here. But I thought, "Why not have them do the annual work since it's going to be there for the new Garmin installation?" The answer is that I was overcharged for something I should have done, AND.... the techs made an error. A big one.

I was sent back out on the water by this shop with the information that the port impeller hadn't been changed because of a seized lower unit bolt which would eventually need to be extracted. But I wasn't told that the shop didn't properly reconnect the shifting linkage before sending the boat home!

I ordered a Honda impeller kit last week, when I still thought I had a catastrophic port lower unit failure and was getting ready to remove the lower unit and look for a broken shaft or sheared dog gear. Built myself a stand. Drained the lube. Here I was, dutifully following the manual steps and got to the "Now disconnect the shift linkage..." OK, I located it using the diagram (I'm really, truly new at this!) aaaaand... "how do you disconnect something that's already disconnected???"

So, fingers crossed that's all that I have to worry about with this engine. Well, other than the seized bolt under the trim tab, and the bolt holding the trim tab that yours truly sheared off and now have to tap!

I'm cautiously relieved about this information. I still think it was the STBD prop that was spun, but I'll put both new ones on and have a prop shop check both old ones to see if there is a ruined one and a spare to keep.

The next decision is whether I take the boat to A DIFFERENT local shop and get them to deal with the seized bolt and the trim tab bolt. I think there's a significant chance I would break the seized bolt if I continue to flail at getting it loose. I've been spraying it with PB Blaster, letting it sit, tapping it for a little shock, and trying to ratchet it loose. Broke a cheap socket, but otherwise no progress.

OK, folks, if you were a beginner, would you take it to a pro for the bolts? I have the impeller kit here and the new lube and my pump, and I'd like to go through the impeller change on my own for the experience and practice.

I may have crew to go out later this week so I'm motivated to move forward and get back on the water!
 
Beachnut,

Think of the consequences if you screw up removing the sheared bolt or strip out the seized bolt. You will have to install new thread insert and then you'll have the salt water/aluminum/stainless problem to deal with. Best to have someone who had the experience and tools to deal with it.

Ask if the shop has ever removed broken/seized bolts. If the answer is yes, let them do it. If no, go to a good auto machine shop and let them remove the bolts. You can do the rest yourself, if desired. Changing the water pump is trivial.

I just dropped (so to speak) the bottom end on Journey On's Honda, for the nth time. Those bolts tend to corrode in place. I tapped them out and used some silicon grease when I reinstalled the 11 bolts. A lot of dirt came out and I was surprised. Now I'm glad I did it.

Boris
 
I probably would discuss the situation with the shop. But another warning is that they didn't want to deal with the frozen bolt. Talk to shops if you have a choice. A good shop deals with this on a regular basis.

I would probably not continue on the seized bolt. Generally lots of PB blasters, but it has to run uphill. (or slowly creep up hill)... Heat and cooling are probably going to be necessary. I use an impact wrench. Probably manual would be safest than an electric or air powered considering that you know it is badly frozen. The change of the impeller is simple--the extraction of sheared off bolts is not..
 
Thanks, Bob. I have to follow hunches sometimes and that's what I was thinking would be the better course. OK, on to the next chapter! I am at least enjoying learning new stuff!
 
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