Truck for C Dory 25.

T

thataway

Active member
I have been towing my C Dory 25 for about 18 months behind my 2012 Yukon XL 4 x4. It is at its max towing the 25. I had not even considered using it for that, until we bought my son's 25, and hauled it over the Grapevine, on I 5 on a 110* day a few years ago. It overheated the transmission, but cooled down easily and did fine the rest of the trip.

I started looking at Chevy 2500--big trucks! Expensive trucks. But the fuel tank is only 22 to 24 gallons--and that is awful small! I went to my after market dealer--no problem with a diesel you put an aux 50 gallon tank in the bed all done for $650.

Then I began to think about running costs and the price of diesel. The truck is my daily driver, so a 20' truck becomes cumbersome. Also after looking at a few sites, the "modern" emission controlled diesels, are not getting all that much better fuel mileage than the gassers--and when you factor in the differential cost of diesel fuel--it is about even, or even sways to the gas.

Today I began to look at 1/2 ton pickups--all of the majors have a number which will tow in the 9500 # range. They are lower, and a little smaller. Certainly cheaper. But they all have small fuel tanks ( I have a 31 gallon in the Yukon, and wish I had more). The problem is on long trips, finding a station which is large enough and not too busy, to get the rig and boat around to a well located pump.

We have been getting 9 mpg average with the 25 (we did 12 to 13 with the 22). Some of the newer transmissions probably would get 10 miles per gallon with a similar sized V8 Gasser. (This was also the mileage I was getting towing the first 25 behind a 30' V 10 powered RV which had a beefed up transmission/cooler and hitch). We towed our first 25 with the Ford Excursion 7.3 and got 12 to 13 mpg on the high way.

I find that many of the Ford 150's are ordered with the 36 gallon fuel tanks. This sure beats a 22 gallon tank! Right now, I am leaning toward a Ford with the 5.0L V8 and 10 speed transmission which I can get in the low 40's with the accessories I want. I have yet to look at the Dodge and Ford Diesels. There are not any 1500 Dodge with the 6.7 L Cummins around anymore. (No Tradesmen with the 6.7 in the 40's around here!). There are some good prices as the end of the 2019 models are wrapped up. I even found several bright red new 2018's--but the price was too high for a red truck! (Wanted as much as for a '19).

Comments on what others have found towing the 25 as far as mileage, and power. We have electric over hydraulic brakes on the trailer.
 
I just went from a 96 Ford F-350 7.3l Power Stroke to a 2019 Ford F-250 Super Duty Gasser with the 6.2 l, 6 speed transmission. 34 gl standard gas tank. Love it, no regrets. Towing the 25 I do not get the mileage I use to with the diesel but it's no tooo bad; on a trip from Az to BC and back computer says 9.6 mpg average. Very comfortable truck, adequate power up the grades, heavily built. Basic XL trim with STX package: 37K+tx. Alain P
 
I went with 2016 6.7 F350 crew cab regular box (6.5ish?). Mostly for the payload for a camper, which I'd never get out of the F150 which I would have bought if I didn't want a camper. I bought it used with a ton of the features I wanted that the last guy had done as upgrades.

It's amazing towing over our local hills and although it is a smaller tank than the 2017's, but with the diesel the smaller tank is fine. There is so much power and torque in the new diesels. I ride my bike to work so I don't sweat about mpg.

5.0 is likely a good choice, I have 3 brothers with F150's and no complaints.
 
Bob,

I am new to c-dory boats but have had a CDL, drove a drill rig, towed flatbeds commercially up and down the west coast with f-250’s, f-350’s, etc. I have personally owned 1/2 ton diesels and gassers. Currently we have a two year old Ford Expedition rated to 9k. I have pulled 6k with it, and the c-dory 22 weighed in at 4800 on DOT scale. After putting some miles on, all I can say is I do not plan to ever tow over 6k with this vehicle regardless of its rating. It pulls BEAUTIFULLY. Never runs out of power. Coming back from sequim with the boat, we punched up the passes like there was nothing there. That aluminum body that gets such great mileage for a full sized 4x4 SUV, however, Does not give me great confidence coming back down the mountains. My next rig will be a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel for several reasons: better stopping power under load, higher tongue weight allowance, more leeway in the cargo (passengers and gear), readily available easy access fuel lanes with diesel (in the West), and the ability to haul less volatile Auxilary fuel in cheap plastic cans in the bed.

That last trait I really miss about diesels. You don’t need a special 50 gallon tank with diesel, a couple of 5 gallon cans will get you down the road another 100 miles and weigh far less. From Houston to Bellingham I have come close to empty only twice. Once was in the last run on gas prices in Texas, and the stations were empty...except for diesel. The other time I almost ran out of fuel the station I planned to stop at had gone out of business! I was able to find a feed store with a fuel co-op. Guess what they sold?

I Definitely understand trying to balance the daily driver with the tow rig. That is precisely what I did with this Ford. I feel like it is an extremely capable vehicle for hauling people and gear around the mountains in all seasons, and an excellent tow vehicle for light loads. My opinion (you know what they say about those) is that the tow rating is ambitious for people looking to pull at high capacity for more than a few short trips a year at low speeds. That said, there are improvements that can be made to increase towing performance (top of the line airbags, beefed up brakes, ditch the stock tires, distribution hitch). None of those things will be better (safer) than buying a truck built to haul more weight from the start.

I am comfortable hauling the c-dory 22 with this current rig, and even a 25 could be done. But towing safely is never about towing. It’s always about stopping. You bet your butt I would be in the slow lane with my hazards on, geared down and finger on the trailer brakes if I was towing down a mountain with more than 5-6k in any half ton on the market.

If you were in my area i’d Hitch my cargo trailer up and put a couple thousand pounds in and let you go for a spin. I don’t know if any car dealer will do that but they should! Best of luck sir.

Nigel
 
The price of new trucks is unfortunate. I am also in the camp having owned 1/2 ton trucks that despite the high tow ratings that their brakes are marginal on steep grades. There is a currently a "tow rating war" going on that is based on engine power, and the new engines are more efficient and powerful than ever. That doesn't necessarily translate into more powerful brakes. In flat areas that may not matter especially with electric over hydraulic discs on the trailer.
My 07' dodge diesel towing our 10,000 # Ranger Tug had two glaring faults, although within its tow rating, the brakes even with the best trailer brakes the truck brakes were marginal on long downgrades. Who puts a stoplight at the base of a 3 mile 6% 55 mph zone grade, Arizona! Yikes!
The other problem was the transmission, which was basically an old 440 gas 1960s transmission upgraded but a well known problem on the diesel Dodges. I watched the temperature creep up into the red on a lot of long grades but the worst was slowly creeping uphill to the US border over an hour leaving Mexico.
Time for a trade in! I wanted an exhaust brake and a better transmission. Unfortunately the 3/4 ton Dodges had the same transmission with more "reliability upgrades", nope not going with that. I am not a big fan of the change to rear coil springs for that award winning "Cadillac ride" either.
I couldn't go with my old friend the Chevys their diesels were way down in the engine power race (since rectifed last year with a whole new diesel) and in our area of steep curvy and dirt roads the independent front suspension don't last like straight axels.
Don't kill me Ford fans but in our area with a lot of very rough dirt roads virtually all my friends Diesel Fords ended up with cracked body panels in the cab. My 94 Dodge 3/4 ton diesel flatbed dump I bought new and still own has 200,000 extremely loaded miles many in low range 1st gear dirt roads and the truck has no cracks and with a manual transmission has never let me down and still literally runs like new, anyway no Fords.
Fortunately the 16' Dodges had worked out the earlier 6.7 smog system problems and the 1 ton still had the tough leaf spring rear and only in the 3500 could you get a heavy duty Aisin truck transmission. The Dodges had jumped to the top of the heap in engine power with 900 foot pounds of torque (only with the Aisin, now up to 1,000) and has a great exhaust brake that has so much hold back that you rarely need the brakes on downgrades.
With carefully ordered options, incentives and heavy dickering I got the truck down from 54k to 44k. It still has electric windows, air, great stereo, back up camera and everything else that comes on a base truck nowadays that make them so expensive.
When we picked up our new to us CD25 in South Dakota on the way home via Portland Oregon when we got down to the SF bay area I was showing just under 15 miles per gallon. This truck has an almost 300 mile range at that.
We always use a truck stop app and look ahead for fuel about 200 miles up the road and may stop at an earlier good one mostly to get out and walk around a bit.
Anyway my 2 cents for what it's worth.
 
Thanks to all! Yes the E/H brakes are essential for any tow vehicle with the load of the 25, unless on the flat all of the time. I had my controller set a little high when we picked up the trailer this Sept to pull the boat out--locked them up with no weight on the trailer. Once was enough.

I rarely use service brakes when going down grades. Exhaust brakes are nice--and I have had them on my diesel RV's. Haven't seen any on the trucks we have looked at or seen as options. Several transmissions have retarders, including the 10 speed Allison. I'll look for the Aisin truck transmission. Off to see Ford GM and Dodge today.
 
My current Dodge has a built in trailer brake controller that is very easy to program for different weights on the trailer and is part of the tow package. Much nicer than the system I added to my 07. I also got the factory rear airbags instead of the add ons on my new truck.
My current truck is probably overkill for a CD25 compared to the Tug it tows like a little ski boat, I hardly know it is there. Also the longer and heavier your truck is the more stable it will tow, my truck is a 3500 but not a dually and is the same physical size as a 1500 or 2500. It does ride hard compared to the coil spring 2500 Cummins.

And I hate to admit it but the newish trailer that came with Sierra came with surge disk brakes. As we drove out to South Dakota to pick her up I intended to change it over to EH when we got back to California. But they worked so well with the CD25s light weight and my very heavy truck that I still haven't changed them over....still on my list.
 
Bob, like you, I've found diesels are over rated. I've been towing Midnight Flyer with a 2016 F150, with the small V8. My rear end is quite high at 3.31 I believe. (Many blogs talk about going to a 3.74 for towing.) I get about 13 mpg towing on level ground no wind. Running 75 without the boat behind me, I get about 20 mpg. (Running 60 I've gotten closer to 21 mpg). I've got a 23 g gas tank I believe. Midnight flyer scales at right around 5100 lbs. I know Tom pulls C-Otter with a F150 with the turbo charged 6, which is actually rated for higher towed weights than the V8. I think I'm rated for 6900 lbs. Tom has told me he has no problem towing his 25 with his F150, but perhaps he will chime in soon. I test drove the 250 once. Didn't like the big truck feel. I was surprised the 150 didn't feel that big. It is still somewhat of a monster to park in tight areas. I towed with a Excursion before. Had the V10 and did a great job, with plenty of room inside and comfortable ride. But not so great on the fuel usage. I think if and when I replace my 150, I may very well go with another 150, but with the heavier tow package that comes with the V6. I suspect mileage will end up being about the same. I'm still waiting to see what the final outcome is with how the duel turbocharged V6 is holding up. As for my current truck (and my 2010 Highlander did just as well, however being a unibody, I could really feel the difference when I got the F150) I've towed over the Rockies twice without a hiccup. With my relatively high gearing, the truck would shift down to 2nd, winding out close to red line at 65, so I would pull my foot back off the gas to come down to about 60. I suspect my truck would pull a 25 just fine also, but that would be over it's tow specs. I think the 1/2 tons offer a good recreational towing vehicle part time mixed with daily driving as well. Of course equipping the trailers appropriately with brakes is beneficial. Not to mention sensible speeds and driving techniques. Colby
 
Bob,
We find that trailering in a new area is already stressful enough…we don’t want any extra stress or drama. We’ve learned to diesel up at the big rig truck plazas (in the rear with the semi-trucks, not in front with the RV’s even if there’s a pump there). They may look busy, but they have 8 to 12 lanes with high-speed pumps and huge hoses. Click the medium fill rate, it’s still faster than any regular pump. They all have big clean restrooms with no lines. Oddly, none take standard credit cards at the pump, but all offer a 3-6% discount for cash, so you need to know exactly how many gallons you want and walk over to the office with cash. Lucky us, the F250 fuel gauge is accurate to 2 gallons (34g tank); same for the boat, which is very unusual. Unwritten etiquette is to pull forward to the yellow line when done fueling and to park the rig if going in to eat. Easy in, easy out, never worry about how high the overhang is etc. Even with cash discount it may be a few pennies more than the cheapest small station, but the ease of access is well worth the small cost to us. Diesel pulls better and in the end costs about the same by trade-in time. We often note that upgrading to a tow truck that is and feels totally in control of the rig in all conditions was our best boating upgrade ever. As you’ve said before, ‘you can’t take it with you, and the kids would just squander it.’

2017 was the last major F150 upgrade, here’s one to check out (don’t know the towing specs, but older specs were not to the same SAE standards used now. I don’t remember when they changed).

https://www.carmax.com/car/beta/17800398

I advocate stopping and walking around every 2 hours (140 miles @ 70MPH will be under 14g used). ‘Trucker Path’ app on your smartphone will show upcoming big rig plazas. So far, east of the Mississippi we’ve seldom if ever not had a big-rig truck plaza in range. We wish we had discovered this option 20 years ago when on the road!

Happy shopping!
John
 
I think your choice may boil down to the F150 with the V8, the 3.5 liter EcoBoost or the new 3.0 liter diesel. Of course other builders like Chevy and Dodge have similar engines available. Here is my take:

5.0 V8 Solid proven engine. Lots of hp and torque for towing. Worst gas mileage of the bunch

3.5 EcoBoost- New, efficient with lots of hp and torque for towing. Gas mileage is one of the best for a gasser, probably 5-10% better than the V8.

3.0 Diesel- New adaptation of a European engine. Lower hp than the two gassers but equivalent torque. Best mileage.

Gas vs Diesel:

The two gassers and the diesels all have suitable hp and torque for towing your 25. The diesel does get better mileage- about 15% better than the gassers. But pump prices pretty much take that away from a cost standpoint. But if how many miles you can get out of a tank are important then the diesel does have that advantage.

OTOH the diesel costs about $3,000 more than the gassers.

So, I would go with the 3.5 liter EcoBoost as the best compromise.

David
 
I've been the biggest diesel advocate for almost as long as I've been driving. We've had the same 94 dodge 12 valve for almost 2 decades, and have used it to tow boats and other trailers all over the west coast mountains and now the Southeast. Its has proven itself perfectly reliable and pretty darn economical over many hundreds of thousands of miles. I've also had and loved a couple of diesel Mercedes 240D sedans, a 1985, and the other a 1979, and racked up a ridiculous amount of miles commuting in them. Once again, super reliable and easy to own.

I thought I'd never say this, but they just aren't making diesels like they used to. Emissions systems have choked them out and they have neither the economy or the longevity of the old simple 12 valve cummins and Mercedes tractor engines of the past.

The old dodge has been a loyal old machine, and we wanted to keep her for dump runs and local towing, but it was getting a little old to comfortably go on long trips towing the boat to Florida and the Carolina mountains. I really like the way Chevy trucks ride, so I seriously considered a Duramax powered 2500HD. The more I researched, the more I read about things like injectors failing (a $5k hit to the wallet), blown headgaskets. Diesel particulate filters, exhaust fluid? I looked at the Dodge. They too have had some issues relating to emissions. They're all pretty expensive repairs.

We ended up getting a GMC Sierra 1500 crew cab short box 4x4, with 5.3 v8 and the max tow package. It rides like a car, gets around 20 mpg on the highway and tows our 22 really well. The 25 may be pushing it, especially over mountain passes out west.

The extra up front cost of the diesel engine, used to be justified over time with longevity, fuel economy and crazy reliability compared to the gas options. Now the gas v8 engines are getting better mpg, less maintenance and are lasting a very long time. If our v8 needs to be replaced replaced at 275k miles, I can replace it with a crate motor for the same cost as injector work on a new diesel.

That's how I see it anyway. The cost benefit of the new diesel isn't there anymore. If I was towing something like a 255 Tomcat, I would consider the heaviest duty truck I could afford.
 
Paul: I share your views, mostly.

Modern common rail diesels can be built smaller and for light duty use, a 3 liter diesel in a half ton pickup works very well. But only light duty because any way you slice it 3 liters is still 3 liters and doesn't have the brawn of the 7+ liter engines in older Fords.

I have little experience with vehicle diesels, but lots with boat diesels, which use the same engines more or less. The common rail high output designs work well in boats and I have heard few of the problems you mention with injectors, etc.

Also in boats the fuel efficiency is as good as it always has been. A modern electronic common rail Cummins QSB 5.9 gets the same or slightly better fuel economy as its older sibling, the all mechanical 6BTA. I think that the same is true with vehicle diesels. One thing you may not be considering is that EcoBoost type gassers are more efficient than their older gasser brethren, so the gap is smaller- but still there.

David
 
Put a high priority on what you do the most, daily driving. That points to a half ton.
The F 150 with a MaxTow package is at the top of the 1/2 ton heap. The 3.5 Ecoboost engine is in a class of it's own for more than just it's numbers.

We have a first gen 3.5 EB (2013) without a specific tow package and it is rated at the 9,500# mark you mentioned.
 
I agree with Paul, I formally had a CDL and drove 10 wheeler diesel trucks. I still own my original, ordered new, 12 valve 94 Dodge Cummins that has 200k miles. My 07 was one of the last pre smog 5.9s it was also great but not enough for comfortable stressfree towing of the very heavy Ranger Tug and why we got the 2016.
I agree that even though our new truck has been perfect for 40k miles it is more than I need to tow the light CD25. I don't believe with the modern engine complexity ( I see gas turbo highly stressed engines as the same) of the computer run common rail smog control diesels lasting like my old 12 valve diesel so I have a maintenance contract out to 100k. If I can't extend it I will sell the truck.
If I bought a new truck, I would consider gas, not the highly stressed turbo but the much less stressed V8, there is no free lunch and there is no substitute for cubic inches for long term reliability. And a 3/4 ton because of the much more heavy duty brakes than on the same physical size 1/2 ton trucks. And since modern tow ratings are based on engine power not braking power I believe many at the top of their towing ranges especially mid sized SUVs and half ton trucks are overrated for mountain towing.
 
i own one of the 1/2 ton ford 3.0 diesels. gets 25.5 hiway 14.0 pulling my 21 ft trailer. the intergral brake controller will work with electric over hydraulics. blind spot monitor back up cam yada yada. is set to tow. have not needed to tow my 25 yet but would not hesitate.
 
I drive a very lo-tech, 2005 F250, 6.0 diesel, 4x4, crew cab, short bed. Only 96K miles. It’s still a big truck. Gets about 18 freeway...11-12 towing the boat. Still have surge brakes. Plenty of torque/power. Good brakes. It really is a comfortable truck, despite the “issues” with the 6.0 International. I’ve put about $3K in upgrades to alleviate some of the issues with the oil cooler et al. She runs fine...so far.

It too is my “daily” although I have a “work vehicle” assigned to me, so I don’t commute in it. It would break the bank if I had to. It has a 30 gallon tank which has proven to be sufficient so far; we don’t tow across the country, yet.

I considered buying a new GMC 3500 but the sticker shock postponed that. Plus, we don’t know if we will need the truck once I retire. We may sell the boat, we may keep the boat, we may buy a bigger boat...who knows. We are considering getting rid of a lot of “stuff” and relocating to sunny Arizona. We may then get a 5th wheel. Again, who knows.

The cost of new diesels is ridiculous! $50K plus. That’s why I’m keeping this old girl running.
Exhaust brakes are nice--and I have had them on my diesel RV's. Haven't seen any on the trucks...
Click to expand...
Chevy/GMC offers them. My buddy just bought a new Chevy 1 ton, duality and it has it.
 
It helps to have a Mississippi Girl as a wife, who loves pickup trucks. (OK we don't have a long gun rack in the rear window) I had not made up my mind after riding in both the F 150 with the 5.0 (old school sort of) crew cab, 36 gal fuel tank and 5.5' bed, and the several feet longer F 250. When we got out and started talking, it was obvious what Marie wanted--and she drives about 50% of the time.... We both felt that the ride in the F 250 was better than in the F 150. I suspect that she also really liked the "trailer back up fly by wire", since that is an area she does not feel as comfortable. I am not sure I trust that, but we well do some trials and see...

So we ended up with a 2019 F 250, cloth seats (They get sheepskin covers no matter what.), and most of the same bells and whistles which she has on her Lincoln MKX...As she said--probably the last truck I will buy, and might as well get one which will "do the job". It has the crew cab, and 6.5' bed. Apparently the 250's don't have the 5.5' bed. It does have a 34 gallon tank, and we will add another auxiliary tank.--probably another 35 to 50 gallons. (We were used to 110 gallons in the previous RV.)

As John noted, we often get diesel in the on the road truck lanes--both in the current RV and the one we sold a year ago, so this is nothing new, and we have all of the discount cards. We also use "Allstays App" which gives us a lot of info on RV parks and truck stops. I do agree that the newer diesels are not like the older ones. But we are amazed that the little 185 hp Mercedes in our one ton Sprinter chassis, gets 14 to 15 mpg even towing Marie's MKX.

All of the comments are appreciated! Thank you. I suspect we would be equally happy with either of the trucks.
 
Congrats, Dr Bob... A new toy! I always love to see people who have busted their "you know whats" their entire lives, enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Personally, I like the larger, heavier 3/4-1 tons for towing our boats. Yeah, the boats are "light" but you're still talking ~5 tons when loaded. I prefer to have that extra safety window to spare and the larger brakes, more torque et al can't be beaten, IMO. The ride/comfort of our 3/4 ton, even at 70 mph, is amazing.

Love to know your impression of the Ford, once you have some miles on it. I swore I wouldn't buy another Ford after all I've had to do to our '05, but never say never...
 
Not addressing any specific post here, but we've had a F-250 for 14 years and it's been a very good truck. We only use it to tow the boat and it's great for that. The last 2 trucks I've bought new were just great: a 89 Chevvie 3/4 ton and the Ford. Judy prefers the 1/2 ton ride, but we buy the truck to pull the boat.

I'm sure that they've improved the Ford trucks a great deal: aluminum body, new engines and heated seats. If the bell or whistle is on a Lincoln, I'm sure they're selling it on a truck. I hope they've fixed the spark plug replacement issue, though we've not had to replace the plugs.

One of my son-in-laws bought a 2019 F150, with an eco-boost V-6? and a 10 speed transmission. It's still new, but he loves it.

Bob, I'm sure you'll be happy with that truck. BTW, since it's a 3/4 ton, how many speeds does it have in the tranny?

Boris
 
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