----- Original Message -----
From: <davidapplegate@roadrunner.com>
To: <davidapplegate@roadrunner.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 3:46 PM
Subject: Letter to 'Thataway'
>
> Hi Tom,
> Thanks for your response to my "Any help appreciated" post. Here is my
> email to "Thataway Bob". Sounds like he is out and about away from his
> computer for awhile. I'm not sure how to add photos to this, but I have
> taken a few and can add them to another email if you want to see them. I'm
> going to send this to 'Sea Wolf', and Charlie and Sally. Looks to me like
> all you guys know an awfull lot about C dorys
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
> Hi Bob,
> I've been talking to David Thompson about my transom and deck problems,
> and he advised me to contact you, as he believes you know more about this
> than just about anyone.
>
> I have a 1990 16 Angler with a 50 hp Honda 4 stroke. The transom is
> completely waterlogged. The wood in the lower part is mush, or
> non-existent. The upper part is still there (feels strong), but very wet.
> The water came in through a thru-hull wire fitting that was not sealed.
> It is located 12" up from the bottom of the transom. When launching the
> boat, water pours in, so for years (I'm guessing), the transom had 12" of
> water in it. Gravity must have pushed the water forward, as now the
> entire hull is wet. My first inspection hole in the rear of the deck
> revealed balsa that squeezed out water like a sponge. My second hole
> finds wood that is damp, but structurally sound, in fact the deck is still
> firmly bonded to the top of the damp balsa. (You can feel that it is
> moist, but it doesn't make your finger wet when you touch it.) I've made
> holes all the way up the deck to check with my moisture meter and the wood
> feels strong, but damp everywhere.
>
> I know I have to re-new the transom and the first 12 or 18" of rear deck,
> but do I have to rip out the whole deck when it shows no sign of weakness?
> I talked to one guy here in San Diego that does this for a living, and he
> said if it was his boat he would just do the transom. I like to do things
> right, so I don't want to cut corners and be sorry later.
>
>
> I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
> Sincerely,
>
> David Applegate
>
David,
In regard to how much core to replace in the sole, my concern might be over whether or not the boat had solidly frozen while saturated. If so, the core may not be well adhered to the fiberglass skins in those areas due to ice expansion. It also may lose adhesion simply due to the balsa soaking up lots of water.
I'm no hotshot hull thumper, but it might pay to do just that; thump the sole with a soft hammer or mallet where your moisture meter indicates the sole is very wet. Then thump where the meter indicates relative dryness. Go back and forth and listen to the timbre of the sound. If there's no difference the wet core is likely to be adhered to the glass; if you can tell a difference between the way the locations sound, it's probably worth at least a couple of test holes of sufficient size to allow clear inspection and a little gentle prying. For the sound testing, I'd try a number of areas, correlating the sound and moisture meter readings. Keep in mind that the frequency of any sound vibration is going to get higher at the chine, transom or locations where the structure will stiffen the sole.
Hope this is some help.
T
Hi Tom,
Thank you so much for your input. The previous owner lived in Nevada, but had the boat garaged, so I don't think it ever froze. I got busy with my mallets yesterday. Luckily most of the hull is still sound. You're certainly right about the difference in sound when you get to the bad stuff. I now believe the transom, and aft 18" of deck need new core. The rest is damp, but solid. It took a lot of prying to get the test area glass off the core. In fact, it finally came apart between layers of glass, not at the glass/wood union. The balsa core may be damp, but it is strong and well adhered to the fiberglass deck.
Do you think there's any way to get the new material into the transom without cutting out the motor wash area? I'm imagining cutting out the inside transom up to the motor wash area, and sliding in new core from the inside without tearing out the upper part of the transom? Possible?
Thanks,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Herrick
To: David Applegate
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Letter to 'Thataway'
-------------
David,
The core that's damp will need to be dried before you glass in new core in the sole. There are several ways to do it; I removed the interior fiberglass from the sole throughout the entire cockpit. It was so soaked that three months after I cut about ten or twelve six-inch holes in the inner glass, it was still wet. Larry H suggested attaching a shop vac to the wet core and removing the water that way. I didn't really get it at the time, but have since learned just how porous "solid" wood can be. It'll likely take days to see any change, but it probably won't take months of listening to the shop vac. Google this and see what you find; others have done it. Click here for a link to the first article I found on the subject.
In regard to getting core material into the transom without cutting the engine well, it seems like that would work if you do the transom work from the outside and the sole work from the inside. As far as sliding material in, that sounds incompatible with the process of bonding new core material to the existing fiberglass, but perhaps I'm missing something. Several C-Brats have replaced their transom cores from the outside of the boat; I don't remember their situation with the sole. I definitely would try to avoid cutting out the engine well; a strong repair is possible, but at this point it seems like an unnecessary process.
Keep us apprised of your progress, both what you learn and what you do. Are you posting this stuff to the C-Brats Web site? I'm happy to let you know whatever I think I know, but you are bound to get more input there. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to help through email, just wanting you to get as much info as you can so you can weed through it and apply what is best for your situation. Something someone posts might trigger me or another 'Brat' to think of something else. Just a thought.
Here's some pics of my crazy project.
All the best,
Tom
P.S. What's that mounting bracket forward of the engine well? It looks like a barrel or something might get lashed to the eyebolts.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Herrick
To: David Applegate
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Letter to 'Thataway'
Hey Tom,
Thanks. That article from the Rot Doctor was sure interesting. Now I'm thinking about making air holes or slits in the deck and taking the boat out to the desert to sit for a few weeks in 100 degrees weather with no humidity. Its only a few hours away, and I imagine I can find an outdoor storage facility to rent.
I was told by several people that it is much better to leave the thicker outside fiberglass in place for structural integrity, and dismantle the transom from the inside, even though it would require a lot more work. But I can't see how to go at it from the inside without cutting into the motor wash area?
I haven't posted any of this on the C-brats site since my original "Any help appreciated' query last week. You're right though, it should go on there for the reasons you mentioned. I'm very new to the site and not yet very familiar with it. How would I post these discussions after the fact?
Your project puts mine into perspective! Wow, pretty cool. Looks like it was done with pride.
That mounting bracket is for a bait tank. I was almost done with the project when I drilled my first hole in the transom to mount the bait pump..........water came rushing out, and thats when this sad transom chapter began.
Thanks again,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Herrick
To: David Applegate
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Letter to 'Thataway'
Tom,
I just came across a product called 'Seacast Transom Repair' They have a great website with photos, a video, and detailed instructions in their 'seacast manual'. Almost sounds too good to be true....with this product I would not need to cut out any fiberglass, just the transom cap. You dig out all the old wood and fill it up with "Seacast". They also have a self leveling foam for the damaged deck portion.
I googled a lot of reviews on 'Seacast'. There are some sceptics, but the people that actually used it seemed to love it. Do you know about this product?
I'm going to cut and paste our conversation on the c-brat forum and perhaps one of the members has used it.
David
From: <davidapplegate@roadrunner.com>
To: <davidapplegate@roadrunner.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 3:46 PM
Subject: Letter to 'Thataway'
>
> Hi Tom,
> Thanks for your response to my "Any help appreciated" post. Here is my
> email to "Thataway Bob". Sounds like he is out and about away from his
> computer for awhile. I'm not sure how to add photos to this, but I have
> taken a few and can add them to another email if you want to see them. I'm
> going to send this to 'Sea Wolf', and Charlie and Sally. Looks to me like
> all you guys know an awfull lot about C dorys
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
> Hi Bob,
> I've been talking to David Thompson about my transom and deck problems,
> and he advised me to contact you, as he believes you know more about this
> than just about anyone.
>
> I have a 1990 16 Angler with a 50 hp Honda 4 stroke. The transom is
> completely waterlogged. The wood in the lower part is mush, or
> non-existent. The upper part is still there (feels strong), but very wet.
> The water came in through a thru-hull wire fitting that was not sealed.
> It is located 12" up from the bottom of the transom. When launching the
> boat, water pours in, so for years (I'm guessing), the transom had 12" of
> water in it. Gravity must have pushed the water forward, as now the
> entire hull is wet. My first inspection hole in the rear of the deck
> revealed balsa that squeezed out water like a sponge. My second hole
> finds wood that is damp, but structurally sound, in fact the deck is still
> firmly bonded to the top of the damp balsa. (You can feel that it is
> moist, but it doesn't make your finger wet when you touch it.) I've made
> holes all the way up the deck to check with my moisture meter and the wood
> feels strong, but damp everywhere.
>
> I know I have to re-new the transom and the first 12 or 18" of rear deck,
> but do I have to rip out the whole deck when it shows no sign of weakness?
> I talked to one guy here in San Diego that does this for a living, and he
> said if it was his boat he would just do the transom. I like to do things
> right, so I don't want to cut corners and be sorry later.
>
>
> I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
> Sincerely,
>
> David Applegate
>
David,
In regard to how much core to replace in the sole, my concern might be over whether or not the boat had solidly frozen while saturated. If so, the core may not be well adhered to the fiberglass skins in those areas due to ice expansion. It also may lose adhesion simply due to the balsa soaking up lots of water.
I'm no hotshot hull thumper, but it might pay to do just that; thump the sole with a soft hammer or mallet where your moisture meter indicates the sole is very wet. Then thump where the meter indicates relative dryness. Go back and forth and listen to the timbre of the sound. If there's no difference the wet core is likely to be adhered to the glass; if you can tell a difference between the way the locations sound, it's probably worth at least a couple of test holes of sufficient size to allow clear inspection and a little gentle prying. For the sound testing, I'd try a number of areas, correlating the sound and moisture meter readings. Keep in mind that the frequency of any sound vibration is going to get higher at the chine, transom or locations where the structure will stiffen the sole.
Hope this is some help.
T
Hi Tom,
Thank you so much for your input. The previous owner lived in Nevada, but had the boat garaged, so I don't think it ever froze. I got busy with my mallets yesterday. Luckily most of the hull is still sound. You're certainly right about the difference in sound when you get to the bad stuff. I now believe the transom, and aft 18" of deck need new core. The rest is damp, but solid. It took a lot of prying to get the test area glass off the core. In fact, it finally came apart between layers of glass, not at the glass/wood union. The balsa core may be damp, but it is strong and well adhered to the fiberglass deck.
Do you think there's any way to get the new material into the transom without cutting out the motor wash area? I'm imagining cutting out the inside transom up to the motor wash area, and sliding in new core from the inside without tearing out the upper part of the transom? Possible?
Thanks,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Herrick
To: David Applegate
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Letter to 'Thataway'
-------------
David,
The core that's damp will need to be dried before you glass in new core in the sole. There are several ways to do it; I removed the interior fiberglass from the sole throughout the entire cockpit. It was so soaked that three months after I cut about ten or twelve six-inch holes in the inner glass, it was still wet. Larry H suggested attaching a shop vac to the wet core and removing the water that way. I didn't really get it at the time, but have since learned just how porous "solid" wood can be. It'll likely take days to see any change, but it probably won't take months of listening to the shop vac. Google this and see what you find; others have done it. Click here for a link to the first article I found on the subject.
In regard to getting core material into the transom without cutting the engine well, it seems like that would work if you do the transom work from the outside and the sole work from the inside. As far as sliding material in, that sounds incompatible with the process of bonding new core material to the existing fiberglass, but perhaps I'm missing something. Several C-Brats have replaced their transom cores from the outside of the boat; I don't remember their situation with the sole. I definitely would try to avoid cutting out the engine well; a strong repair is possible, but at this point it seems like an unnecessary process.
Keep us apprised of your progress, both what you learn and what you do. Are you posting this stuff to the C-Brats Web site? I'm happy to let you know whatever I think I know, but you are bound to get more input there. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to help through email, just wanting you to get as much info as you can so you can weed through it and apply what is best for your situation. Something someone posts might trigger me or another 'Brat' to think of something else. Just a thought.
Here's some pics of my crazy project.
All the best,
Tom
P.S. What's that mounting bracket forward of the engine well? It looks like a barrel or something might get lashed to the eyebolts.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Herrick
To: David Applegate
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Letter to 'Thataway'
Hey Tom,
Thanks. That article from the Rot Doctor was sure interesting. Now I'm thinking about making air holes or slits in the deck and taking the boat out to the desert to sit for a few weeks in 100 degrees weather with no humidity. Its only a few hours away, and I imagine I can find an outdoor storage facility to rent.
I was told by several people that it is much better to leave the thicker outside fiberglass in place for structural integrity, and dismantle the transom from the inside, even though it would require a lot more work. But I can't see how to go at it from the inside without cutting into the motor wash area?
I haven't posted any of this on the C-brats site since my original "Any help appreciated' query last week. You're right though, it should go on there for the reasons you mentioned. I'm very new to the site and not yet very familiar with it. How would I post these discussions after the fact?
Your project puts mine into perspective! Wow, pretty cool. Looks like it was done with pride.
That mounting bracket is for a bait tank. I was almost done with the project when I drilled my first hole in the transom to mount the bait pump..........water came rushing out, and thats when this sad transom chapter began.
Thanks again,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Herrick
To: David Applegate
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Letter to 'Thataway'
Tom,
I just came across a product called 'Seacast Transom Repair' They have a great website with photos, a video, and detailed instructions in their 'seacast manual'. Almost sounds too good to be true....with this product I would not need to cut out any fiberglass, just the transom cap. You dig out all the old wood and fill it up with "Seacast". They also have a self leveling foam for the damaged deck portion.
I googled a lot of reviews on 'Seacast'. There are some sceptics, but the people that actually used it seemed to love it. Do you know about this product?
I'm going to cut and paste our conversation on the c-brat forum and perhaps one of the members has used it.
David