towing requirements

I like Dave's tail wagging the dog comment. That is exactly how we described pulling our 23 Venture with our Dodge Dakota with a V-8 engine. Plenty of power for pulling but I felt very nervous and actually afraid to drive over the mountain pass to the coast while towing. I could feel the boat push the back of the truck from side to side while making turns and braking. Both units weighed equally at about 5000 lbs. Hated to sell the Dakota which we bought before buying the Venture but had to do so and bought a full sized truck with a 9200 lb.tow rating to tow the Venture. Now I find myself driving too fast at times and need to concentrate on slowing down for safety. Big difference in towing now. We feel much safer towing with a larger and more capable vehicle.
I also agree with Harald to have that extra margin of towing capacity by 3000 lbs or so.
 
I ran into the "150" per passenger 30 years ago when I was flying all over the country (and to Hawaii) with a Division One football team. We would charter a plane and fill it with football players, their gear, and the athletic training gear--some very long runway utilization, especially when it was hot in S. Calif or Az.
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I have to agree Bob, those "standard weights" are not so accurate. I'm pretty sure that during my tenure at the airlines, they did raise the weights slightly to be a little closer to accurate. However, I think many loads were at the higher end of what was used to average! :shock: The winter weights were about 5 lbs heavier than the summer weights, due to winter coats and heavier clothes. Kind of reminds me of the old adage, measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a floball, and cut it with an axe! lol Colby
 
I think the old rule of thumb of having 20-30% greater towing/payload capacity than needed still applies for safety. At the end of the day overloading or being at max capacity of your vehicle is not advisable. If you have a 6000lb trailer a good rule of thumb is to have a vehicle capable of towing 9000lbs while making sure to follow guidelines in regards to weight distribution hitches etc.
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Hi Harald, I'd have to disagree here. I see no reason one can not pull or load their vehicle up to specs. But one does have to insure they understand all the different weight ratings on their tow vehicle, such as Payload or GVWR and GCVWR, and also what their trailer actually weighs, both at it's axles and it's tongue. And also what the weight of their payload actually is. A 20-30% buffer might allow one some wiggle room if they have failed to take all the confusing numbers into consideration, but one could easily exceed even that extra 20-30%. I drove truck in my younger years, and pulling a 60,000 lb trailer with a 20,000 lb tractor is a much bigger ratio than pulling a 5000 lb trailer behind a 6000 lb SUV or Pickup. If your are not exceeding your towing specs, there should be no problem with your vehicle pulling your trailer. That being said, speed has more effect on the safety than most anything else. Colby
 
OK, here's a picture that shows what can be towed. '63 Chevvy short bed, V-8, new auto and load leveling hitch. EOH brakes on the trailer. 4000# truck, 8000# trailer.

No issues trailering between Seattle and San Diego. Just be careful. And stop trying to decipher the towing statements written by lawyers to protect their clients. Also, have good brakes on the trailer.

Boat_Truck.sized.jpg

Boris
 
Thank you Colby for mentioning the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating.
I was quiet irresponsible for awhile towing our C-Dory with our Dodge Dakota. The Trailer Tow Guide said it could tow 5000 lbs. but with a small camper shell on it and larger tires and a fully loaded factory package, that actually brought down the tow rating by about 600 lbs. In my case that put my vehicle to really only tow about 4400 lbs. The weight of the vehicle and the weight of what you are towing must not exceed the numbers of what the Owners Manual says with regard to GCVWR. A good attorney will throw the book (Manual) at you in court.
If I were ever responsible for an accident while towing over the GCVWR with that truck, I wonder if my insurance would even cover me for an accident that I may have caused. I really don't want to know or take that chance.
:)
 
Another example is a 2016 Dodge Diesel I looked at a while back, before buying my F150. It was rated around 9000 lbs for towing, I believe. But all else aside, the final numbers showed a payload of only about 950 lbs. Two large people and a 500 lb tongue weight, you've just capped yourself on putting anything else in the truck! OTOH, my 2010 Toyota Highlander had a payload of about 1100 lbs I believe. It was only rated to pull 5000 lbs however. But it was better suited for pulling my Cd-22 around, than the Dodge Diesel, if you stayed within all the numbers! GO figure! Colby
 
I could move my trailer with a corvette too that doesn't mean its safe. The problem is these weights are all dry with no people in it etc. I think a 20-30% buffer is good to have so you are assured of not exceeding the ratings as stated. To the point of lawyers writing these things - if they feel the need to protect themselves from liability due to undue risk above such rating I personally rather stick below such rating. I was always taught to try to stay below the ratings and it makes me feel safe that when I carry additional passengers or gear that I will not be exceeding what the vehicle is capable of handling. Its just not worth finding out after the fact when my vehicle prematurely fails or I have an accident because I could not stop in time or the like. On my way back from Seattle I had to make an emergency stop with the truck and trailer from 65 to 0 and would have creamed the car ahead of me if I didn't have control over the vehicle. I am quite happy to report the trailer & truck remained controllable even with a little squealing so I narrowly avoided the collision. Had I had my jeep my guess is that it would have gone quite differently. As I stated above the payload rating will be exceeded much quicker than the GCWR. For example my truck has a payload of 1140lbs I believe that means with the boat 550 lbs + 4 passengers (~800lbs - 300 allowance) I am at 1050. With my wife and I alone we are at 650lbs. So with 4 passengers and their additional gear we are coming close to the vehicles payload. Hence for me the minimum is 20-30% to allow me not to worry about it. What you can do is not the point rather what is advisable. Years ago I was frivolously sued for 800K for a fender bender. The lady had done it before too but my lawyer said at the time you never know what the jury will do, its about who they believe or like. This scared me. The next day I got an umbrella policy for 5 million dollars as I never want to worry about this again. Similarly imagine I could not have stopped on time in Seattle and was overloaded, my guess is the lawyers would have had me for lunch, and that is secondary to whom I might have hurt in the process. To me its not worth the risk to life and limb or financially. Its a free country but we need to remember there are consequences to choices we make and that these safety choices affect others too.

1100lbs payload with the highlander - impressive :-)
 
For example my truck has a payload of 1140lbs I believe that means with the boat 550 lbs + 4 passengers (~800lbs - 300 allowance) I am at 1050.
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You lost me Harald. 550 + 800 = 1350. You just blew over your truck's 1140 lb payload by 200 lbs. Another example that happened to me was when I bought a 1988 Searay 268 Sundancer weighing about 9500 lbs on the trailer. I had a Dodge Ram Quad Cab 1500. I forget what the specs were on it, but the trailer was well within it's "towing capacity". However, when I started doing the math and adding things up, I was well over it's GCWR. (Sold the Dodge and bought an Excursion!) I do agree with you that a larger and heavier tow vehicle can be the dog wagging the tail. But have you every had a Lab? (big dog) lol. In the end, there is more to safely towing than just vehicle weights and their weight ratings. When I did tow with the Highlander, I rarely towed over 60 mph, and I had fully electric brakes on both of my trailer axles. More than once I experienced panic stops, and crossed the Rockies round trip twice pulling with the Highlander. I will say now after towing with my F150, there is a big difference when I hitch the boat up to the Highlander. But I would still have no issue using the Highlander if my pickup wasn't available. Colby
 
colbysmith":16gr6r5o said:
For example my truck has a payload of 1140lbs I believe that means with the boat 550 lbs + 4 passengers (~800lbs - 300 allowance) I am at 1050.
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You lost me Harald. 550 + 800 = 1350. You just blew over your truck's 1140 lb payload by 200 lbs. . Colby
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New SAE ratings assume 2*150lbs for passengers - so you subtract 300 from total. Old ratings didn't include anything or were purely up to manufacturer.
 
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