TomCat steering hydraulic fluid spray

M

Mike...

New member
Fellow TomCatters....

Back when I bought the TomCat, I remember one of you telling me to check behind the helm for hydraulic fluid. I did, and at the time I remember thinking that the angled area below the pump felt a just little greasy in one area, and the floor of that hidden space below also felt a little greasy. But, I found no standing fluid. And until today, I haven't give this another thought.

But with some electronics going in behind the helm, I went searching and found this thread which has me wondering about the logic of mounting anything back there.

As most of you probably know, I have yet to get the boat into the water. That should change next month, if all goes according to plan. However the boat was a dealer demo, and had almost 50 hours on it when I bought it.

So here is my question. Let's say I have electronics mounted behind the helm on that vertical section. And let's say I have one of those fluid gushers like Captain Matt described in the thread linked above. Or maybe I have just a small leak. Besides the obvious mess, how bad is the fluid going to be for the electronics? Hydraulic fluid is not conductive or corrosive, is it?

By the way, I had a local Honda certified engine yard service the outboards and power bleed the steering. They did so, and said all went well.

Of course I did the research on these folks before taking the boat there. They were recommended to be my several boaters as well as three different full service yards. Apparently the collective wisdom here is that these folks are the only ones you want touching your engines and related systems like steering. They have been around for many, many years, and It took them two weeks just to get to my boat because they were so backed up. So I have good confidence that their work was done well.

Still I worry about this Sea Star steering system and my electronics below.

Any thoughts?
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mike
 
Although I have my autopilot pump mounted back there and a bunch of junction boxes with wiring in it, I don't worry about fluid leaks. Have never had a problem with Seastar leaks on the TC or on my 22 which also had Seastar.

That having been said, I would put big electronic things elsewhere. I used the inside of the galley cabinet, on the vertical bulkhead just forward of the water heater. Lots of room, and they don't get in the way in the sleeping area.

Unless the Admiral still wants to rip out the galley!! :disgust

Charlie
 
Captains Cat":1upk92gc said:
That having been said, I would put big electronic things elsewhere. I used the inside of the galley cabinet, on the vertical bulkhead just forward of the water heater. Lots of room, and they don't get in the way in the sleeping area.
Click to expand...
Yes, in the galley cabinet makes sense, but the water heater in mine is in the cabinet below the captain's chair, and there is no room in there.
Captains Cat":1upk92gc said:
Unless the Admiral still wants to rip out the galley!! :disgust
Click to expand...
I think I talked her out of that. Instead, I plan to make the dinette space more flexible by making it convertible to bench seating.
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mike
 
I have the Teleflex Baystar system for single outboards up to 150 hp on my cc-23 I found a little sheen on my fiberglass it was the hydraulic oil from the baystar . I ordered a seal kit from WM I still have to do it I will wait until I get home to Naples to play with it .
I didnt think that this would leak but I guess anything under pressure with O-rings will give out . I will add a little fluid then change next month
 
The Telefex steering system in the older Tomcats (such as mine- 2006) has a vented filler cap. This can leak fluid under extreme conditions without indicating a pump failure (such as experienced by Dr. Bob and Matt).

The new system, which you likely have, has a non-vented cap. Even so, when you occasionally top off the hydraulic fluid, some is liable to spill and flow back behind the helm. I have had this happen on a number of occasions. It has not hurt the instruments or the wiring.
 
Hydraulic fluid will not short out your electronics, nor will it dissolve your components. It does make a mess.

There are several precautions you can take to prevent any spray. Get a freezer bag (the kind you can see through), cut it open and use duct tape to secure it around each joint That would ameliorate any spray and allow you to see if the joint was leaking. Though I doubt that you would get a spray, you can check every so often to see if there is any fluid on the plastic. Of course, if there is a spray, there will be a mess below the fitting, but not a spray all over. In 5 years of both manual and autopilot steering, I've never seen a leak, but then that's with a C-25, not a tomkat.

I use brake cleaner spray to clean up oil spills. On electronics I use electronic cleaner. When I unplug connectors, if they appear dirty, I spray them with electronic cleaner and then reassemble. Both are available at auto parts stores.

Boris
 
Sorry Mike, I meant the vertical thwartships bulkhead just AFT of the water heater. There's no room in my water heater cabinet under the captain's seat either. Lots in the cabinet under the sink...

Charlie
 
Captains Cat":2vnrlj9j said:
Sorry Mike, I meant the vertical thwartships bulkhead just AFT of the water heater. There's no room in my water heater cabinet under the captain's seat either. Lots in the cabinet under the sink...
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Yes there is. And I agree that's a good place to mount stuff. As long as I don't spring any leaks under there.

That reminds me, I need to check those darn leaky shower fixtures again.
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mike
 
In terms of the fountain of fluid, mine came out of the vented filler cap up top. It ran onto the floor in front of the helm and down the back around my electrical panels (not over them) and also pooled on the floor behind the helm station. For some reason, the Teleflex system cannot handle a hard reverse. Even with my 2nd helm replacement, if I go hard in reverse I will get some back pressure (can hear it through my vent cap). Fortunately I seldom have a reason to rev the RPM's in reverse so I have not thought much about it. My steering has been otherwise fine since the helm was replaced.

I've actually never had the leaking showing fixtures. I snugged the existing fixtures when I first bought the boat but have been fortunate never to have any leaks. I take a handful of showers a year on the boat. (The rest of my showers I take at home :D )

Mike - your vessel will be seriously 'setup' by the time you get it in the water!
 
matt_unique":12q4oyx9 said:
In terms of the fountain of fluid, mine came out of the vented filler cap up top. It ran onto the floor in front of the helm and down the back around my electrical panels (not over them) and also pooled on the floor behind the helm station. For some reason, the Teleflex system cannot handle a hard reverse. Even with my 2nd helm replacement, if I go hard in reverse I will get some back pressure (can hear it through my vent cap). Fortunately I seldom have a reason to rev the RPM's in reverse so I have not thought much about it. My steering has been otherwise fine since the helm was replaced.
Click to expand...

The last time this happened to me, I was about to run over a fisherman's gillnet (if you do that here, at the minimum, you are liable for repairs). Stopped the boat with inches to spare but got the FoF and a stalled engine.

Warren
 
matt_unique":190zjklf said:
For some reason, the Teleflex system cannot handle a hard reverse. Even with my 2nd helm replacement, if I go hard in reverse I will get some back pressure (can hear it through my vent cap).
Click to expand...
Captain Matt, I am missing something here that is probably completely obvious to everyone else. Why would hard reverse cause back pressure in the steering system?

matt_unique":190zjklf said:
Mike - your vessel will be seriously 'setup' by the time you get it in the water!
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I hope it will have a few neat things that will make it a just a bit unique. If nothing else, they will make me smile. :)
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mike
 
Mike...":2w3sb6wm said:
matt_unique":2w3sb6wm said:
For some reason, the Teleflex system cannot handle a hard reverse. Even with my 2nd helm replacement, if I go hard in reverse I will get some back pressure (can hear it through my vent cap).
Click to expand...
Captain Matt, I am missing something here that is probably completely obvious to everyone else. Why would hard reverse cause back pressure in the steering system?

matt_unique":2w3sb6wm said:
Mike - your vessel will be seriously 'setup' by the time you get it in the water!
Click to expand...
I hope it will have a few neat things that will make it a just a bit unique. If nothing else, they will make me smile. :)
---
mike
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,
I don't know enough about the mechanics to explain why hard reverse triggers a pressure surge in the system. We have the liquid tie bar of course (many twin outboard vessels have a solid tie bar between them).

Maybe Dr. Bob or others can explain the surge. If it fails it will be in reverse. You should carry some Teleflex fluid aboard just in case. If you do get a fountain of fluid of sufficient volume you will loose steerage of course but adding fluid will provide a quick fix. This is more about contingency planning of course - I have over 2000 miles on Napoleon and post helm pump replacement it has not been an issue. Just something to be aware of.
 
matt_unique":11655rof said:
This is more about contingency planning
Click to expand...

:wink My contingency planning consist of a paid up BoatUS Unlimited Towing Insurance Policy....and a good working VHF / Cell Phone.

It saves on the weight to power ratio...and on gas too.
 
I was in reverse for a couple 3 minutes yesterday and noticed fluid on my starboard floor. Is this ok? I pulled the helm cap and can still sight fluid. I have no air bubbles and steering is fine.

Should I be concerned?
 
I'd top off the helm unit and watch it closely. You might try it again for a shorter period of time and see if you can figure out where the fluid is coming from. The cap is vented and that's probably the source.

We have never found why it does this in reverse. Maybe Teleflex could answer that question?

Charlie
 
chromer":2g7lxn9s said:
I was in reverse for a couple 3 minutes yesterday and noticed fluid on my starboard floor. Is this ok? I pulled the helm cap and can still sight fluid. I have no air bubbles and steering is fine.

Should I be concerned?
Click to expand...

Seastar sent me my third system over this winter...at the end of last season my last brand new system went south again. This time they sent me a beefier model than what was installed twice before. They also sent me new rams - I reinstalled every part of the steering system except the lines from the helm to the stern. So far no problems. I did the bleeding on my own by turning the pump, etc.

If you have fluid it means you have a leak or a pressure surge - not unusual for some of the helms to leak when in reverse (at least in my experience on the Tomcat) due to the pressure surge. Clean it up and watch it closely. The next time you are in reverse, put your ear down to the helm to see if you hear the "ssssssss" indicating a reverse pressure surge likely to result in more spillage. ALWAYS keep extra fluid and whatever necessary funnel you need - I once lost complete steering due to a back pressure surge in strong winds. I would have been on rocks without twin engines and a fortunately close mooring. The quick fix to this problem (pressure surge blowing out most of your fluid) is to refill the fluid in the helm of course. You will immediately get your steering back.
 
Captains Cat":1g7iikgl said:
I'd top off the helm unit and watch it closely. You might try it again for a shorter period of time and see if you can figure out where the fluid is coming from. The cap is vented and that's probably the source.

We have never found why it does this in reverse. Maybe Teleflex could answer that question?

Charlie
Click to expand...

Good question!

Are there some check valves in the system that won't respond properly when the forces are reversed? (Are there any check valves in the system?)

Maybe the increased back pressure when the motor is tilted in reverse and a power surge happens, overloads the reservoir with returning fluid, causing it to spill out the vent? (More likely)

Pure speculation, of course!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
We also are leaking steering fluid. At first I thought it was just coming from the filler cap. We replaced that and see that the fluid is still leaking at the rear of helm in large amounts. Based on the info shared here, I question weather to replace seals or replace the entire helm?

Fred

AlliCat
 
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