Need some advice on what I should check for. It was working last season; now nothing. Does not move at all. I cleaned and checked the sending unit in the fuel tank. No change. Nothing looks different. The entire Suzuki gauge pack seems wired in parallel and the other gauges (engine tilt & volts) are functioning.
Suzuki fuel gauge dead
- Thread starter localboy
- Start date
South of Heaven
New member
localboy":mcebtcxn said:
Year, make and model of the engine? Is the gauge getting power? You didn't mention the Tach and hour meter; are they working too?
Consider that the fuel tank sender is an arm attached to a rheostat. There is about 200 ohms resistance across this. Testing is as below:
From Jamestown Marine:
Fuel Systems (Marine)
Voltage - "I" to "G" terminal - 10 to 16 volts.
Test gauge as follows: Connect "hot" wire to the "I" terminal and ground wire to "G" terminal. Remove sender (usually pink) wire from back of gauge. Gauge should read below "EMPTY". Next, add a short wire from the gauge's "S" (sender) terminal to ground. Gauge should read above "FULL." If the pointer sweeps back and forth, gauge is OK.
The sender can be tested by checking its resistance with a volt/ohm test meter (use analog meter) as follows:
Remove sender (usually pink) wire from sender.
Connect two test meter wires to two sender terminals (or center terminal & flange if sender has only one terminal).
Move float arm by hand. Approximate values: Empty = 240 ohms, 1/2 = 103 ohms, Full = 33 ohms. (Teleflex sender: rheostat housing installed upside down will cause gauge to read backwards. See illustration.)
Sender resistance tolerances at full may cause the gauge to read 2-3 pointer widths either side of the full mark.
The sender will accurately operate only one standard gauge at a time. It is not designed for dual station use with standard gauges.
Gauge will not operate accurately from more than one sender at a time. Some installations use a switch to connect one gauge to various tanks, one at a time.
Sender will not operate in water tanks. Rheostat will become electrically "open".
Be certain sender dimensions are adjusted per the instruction sheet.
If sender is "open" (infinite resistance) gauge will read below empty. If sender is shorted (0 resistance) gauge will read above "FULL".
Some "bowing" of the flange may occur when the 5 mounting screws are tightened. The gasket under the flange will normally seal the flange properly, but do not overtighten the mounting screws.
Sender must be grounded, or gauge will always read "EMPTY."
If sender is installed in a tank not designed for a sender, care must be taken to seal screw threads. Sealant under screw head is also advisable. Sealant must withstand gas and diesel fuels.
From Jamestown Marine:
Fuel Systems (Marine)
Voltage - "I" to "G" terminal - 10 to 16 volts.
Test gauge as follows: Connect "hot" wire to the "I" terminal and ground wire to "G" terminal. Remove sender (usually pink) wire from back of gauge. Gauge should read below "EMPTY". Next, add a short wire from the gauge's "S" (sender) terminal to ground. Gauge should read above "FULL." If the pointer sweeps back and forth, gauge is OK.
The sender can be tested by checking its resistance with a volt/ohm test meter (use analog meter) as follows:
Remove sender (usually pink) wire from sender.
Connect two test meter wires to two sender terminals (or center terminal & flange if sender has only one terminal).
Move float arm by hand. Approximate values: Empty = 240 ohms, 1/2 = 103 ohms, Full = 33 ohms. (Teleflex sender: rheostat housing installed upside down will cause gauge to read backwards. See illustration.)
Sender resistance tolerances at full may cause the gauge to read 2-3 pointer widths either side of the full mark.
The sender will accurately operate only one standard gauge at a time. It is not designed for dual station use with standard gauges.
Gauge will not operate accurately from more than one sender at a time. Some installations use a switch to connect one gauge to various tanks, one at a time.
Sender will not operate in water tanks. Rheostat will become electrically "open".
Be certain sender dimensions are adjusted per the instruction sheet.
If sender is "open" (infinite resistance) gauge will read below empty. If sender is shorted (0 resistance) gauge will read above "FULL".
Some "bowing" of the flange may occur when the 5 mounting screws are tightened. The gasket under the flange will normally seal the flange properly, but do not overtighten the mounting screws.
Sender must be grounded, or gauge will always read "EMPTY."
If sender is installed in a tank not designed for a sender, care must be taken to seal screw threads. Sealant under screw head is also advisable. Sealant must withstand gas and diesel fuels.
Good luck on the testing Mark. If your was as accurate as ours on the 25, you might not miss it much. After trying to use ours for some guidance, we ended up just setting a GPS based trip meter and that worked out well. You could always replace it with a sticker.
https://www.amazon.com/Gauge-Level-Funn ... B00OSAL480
Greg
https://www.amazon.com/Gauge-Level-Funn ... B00OSAL480
Greg
I'm going to ground out the sender today and see if the gauge changes at all. I did some reading last night on it. Very similar instructions to what Dr Bob posted. If the sender tests OK, I'll use his instructions to test the gauge.
Greg, you are correct. The thing is not accurate and it bounced around, but it does give you some idea of what you have left. If I can't get it to work, I'm gonna fill the boat and go off the Garmin unit since we have a fuel use sensor now (GFS10 I believe). The full tank will give me a better starting point than I currently have.
The tach is working fine as is the "hour meter" when you first hit the key to power the system. It's a 2006 Suzuki DF150 with appropriate gauge cluster. Even has a useless "speedometer". :lol:
Greg, you are correct. The thing is not accurate and it bounced around, but it does give you some idea of what you have left. If I can't get it to work, I'm gonna fill the boat and go off the Garmin unit since we have a fuel use sensor now (GFS10 I believe). The full tank will give me a better starting point than I currently have.
The tach is working fine as is the "hour meter" when you first hit the key to power the system. It's a 2006 Suzuki DF150 with appropriate gauge cluster. Even has a useless "speedometer". :lol:
After doing a simple test (grounded the pink wire) I determined the sender was bad. I pulled it and confirmed it was via an ohm resistance test. Tested OK "full" but as I "emptied" it, the meter showed no reading. Purchased a new WEMA brand from Fisheries Supply and the gauge is back working.
All electrical should be as easy to understand to a novice like me. It did educate me on resistance, ohm measurement, how to use a multi-meter to figure it all out though.
The tank is just under 10" (~9 7/8") deep so I purchased a 9" WEMA unit, in case anyone else with a 25 encounters this. The original sender was an arm/float type, like an old toilet tank. The new WEMA one is a float that moves up and down on the shaft. More reliable, or so the inter-web says....
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/wema-usa-sss-ssl-flanged-fuel-water-tank-sensor
All electrical should be as easy to understand to a novice like me. It did educate me on resistance, ohm measurement, how to use a multi-meter to figure it all out though.
The tank is just under 10" (~9 7/8") deep so I purchased a 9" WEMA unit, in case anyone else with a 25 encounters this. The original sender was an arm/float type, like an old toilet tank. The new WEMA one is a float that moves up and down on the shaft. More reliable, or so the inter-web says....
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/wema-usa-sss-ssl-flanged-fuel-water-tank-sensor
AstoriaDave
New member
local boy,
Good on ya for this: All electrical should be as easy to understand to a novice like me. It did educate me on resistance, ohm measurement, how to use a multi-meter to figure it all out though.
Does my old teacher heart good to see this. A volt-ohm meter is a really versatile tool.
Agree the stock tank swing arm sensors suck.
Good on ya for this: All electrical should be as easy to understand to a novice like me. It did educate me on resistance, ohm measurement, how to use a multi-meter to figure it all out though.
Does my old teacher heart good to see this. A volt-ohm meter is a really versatile tool.
Agree the stock tank swing arm sensors suck.
Dave, I have no problem admitting I don't know everything (contrary to what my wife might say :wink: ). Electrical (both car & boat) has always been my Achilles heel, along with dual carb synch/adjustment. I ask dumb questions, read what I can and fumble fark my way thru when possible. The more I learn, the more confident I become. When we stop learning we best just lay down and die...slowly.
Aloha, Mark
Aloha, Mark
cmetzenberg
New member
thataway":2zgwzt3p said:Consider that the fuel tank sender is an arm attached to a rheostat. There is about 200 ohms resistance across this. Testing is as below:
From Jamestown Marine:
Fuel Systems (Marine)
Voltage - "I" to "G" terminal - 10 to 16 volts.
Test gauge as follows: Connect "hot" wire to the "I" terminal and ground wire to "G" terminal. Remove sender (usually pink) wire from back of gauge. Gauge should read below "EMPTY". Next, add a short wire from the gauge's "S" (sender) terminal to ground. Gauge should read above "FULL." If the pointer sweeps back and forth, gauge is OK.
The sender can be tested by checking its resistance with a volt/ohm test meter (use analog meter) as follows:
Remove sender (usually pink) wire from sender.
Connect two test meter wires to two sender terminals (or center terminal & flange if sender has only one terminal).
Move float arm by hand. Approximate values: Empty = 240 ohms, 1/2 = 103 ohms, Full = 33 ohms. (Teleflex sender: rheostat housing installed upside down will cause gauge to read backwards. See illustration.)
Sender resistance tolerances at full may cause the gauge to read 2-3 pointer widths either side of the full mark.
The sender will accurately operate only one standard gauge at a time. It is not designed for dual station use with standard gauges.
Gauge will not operate accurately from more than one sender at a time. Some installations use a switch to connect one gauge to various tanks, one at a time.
Sender will not operate in water tanks. Rheostat will become electrically "open".
Be certain sender dimensions are adjusted per the instruction sheet.
If sender is "open" (infinite resistance) gauge will read below empty. If sender is shorted (0 resistance) gauge will read above "FULL".
Some "bowing" of the flange may occur when the 5 mounting screws are tightened. The gasket under the flange will normally seal the flange properly, but do not overtighten the mounting screws.
Sender must be grounded, or gauge will always read "EMPTY."
If sender is installed in a tank not designed for a sender, care must be taken to seal screw threads. Sealant under screw head is also advisable. Sealant must withstand gas and diesel fuels.
Hi Bob,
I'm having some issues with my stbd fuel gauging system. Both port and stbd sensors have exactly 7 volts going to them (kinda seems low?). No issues with the port; currently the tank is full reading 30 ohms across the sensor. Stbd tank is also full, reading 40 ohms across the sensor. For a reason i'm not sure of the, the stbd sensor is only showing half full and the needle is jumping. Any ideas?
First I would swap the gauges, or really just put the Starboard wiring to the port gauge after pulpit the port tank wiring off. This will let you know if it is the gauge.
As the usual suspect is Corrosion, I would also go and clean up all of the terminals. Probably the last place is going to be the most difficult--and that is the actual sender. But at least clean up those connections (including the ground).
As the usual suspect is Corrosion, I would also go and clean up all of the terminals. Probably the last place is going to be the most difficult--and that is the actual sender. But at least clean up those connections (including the ground).
cmetzenberg
New member
thataway":34dhoci1 said:
I cleaned up both terminals with not resolution of issue. Given the spacing i'd have to rig up some jumpers to get from one side to the other but it is doable. I feel i should also check the voltage at the gauge. I'll post my findings.
-Thanks,
Conrad
Should be pretty short jumpers since the gauges are close together on the console as I recollect. I usually carry 4 short alligator clip jumpers in my electrical bag, and then several long lengths of wire--thus able to make jumpers even the length of the boat if necessary..
Good on cleaning the terminals!
Good on cleaning the terminals!
cmetzenberg
New member
thataway":b2fdpyzd said:
Well Bob, in my troubleshooting the fuel arm fell off into the tank on the tank that was working...i think i'm going to buy two new fuel sending units. Got any part numbers?
There are fuel units which may be better than the EOM: You have to know the depth of the tank of course. Most all have the same resistance value.
Example is SSS/SSL Sender – SAE 5 Hole Pattern Mount American Standard 240-33 ohms (240 ohms at empty, 33 ohms at full)
Example is SSS/SSL Sender – SAE 5 Hole Pattern Mount American Standard 240-33 ohms (240 ohms at empty, 33 ohms at full)
cmetzenberg
New member
I stuck a tape measurer down hole after removing what's left of the port sending unit. about 10.5" but i think to error on the side of safety I should install a 10". I just ordered some of oem ones last night but i may return them. The Stbd side looks like a real bear to get at, port is a dream
cmetzenberg
New member
Hi Bob,
Turns out the senders were fine. the positive cable going to the stbd sender had slack in it and worked it's way under the fuel tank! Well it eventually chaffed through. God help me if I ever have to pull that stbd sending unit, the access is muy terrible.
Turns out the senders were fine. the positive cable going to the stbd sender had slack in it and worked it's way under the fuel tank! Well it eventually chaffed through. God help me if I ever have to pull that stbd sending unit, the access is muy terrible.
Interesting that the cable was not properly supported. My boat, which was the last 2006 "model' (the next boat off the line was a 2007) had a number of "careless" wiring issues. The lack of support of that sending wire would qualify!
Glad the problem was "easily" solved...Agree, the removal of the Starboard tank would require cutting the interior or the tank. On one boat I owned, I had to cut the tanks up to get them out. Tanks are usually put in place in production boats before the cabin and deck molding is attached to the hull, so they are just dropped in place. Finally C Dory wised up on the 25, and made a removable hatch to cover the fuel tank. (may not easy to remove or replace, but easier than cutting up furniture or deck.
On the TC 25, I wonder if the tank could be pulled aft and then eventually lifted out in two pieces? Then two new tanks could be installed.
Also in some power boats it is easier to cut the side of the hull out, remove the tank and then re-laminate the side (or bottom) of the hull. Seems drastic,
I replaced a tank in the 41' trawler . That required removing one engine, then cutting the floor out of the saloon, putting in the new tank, rebuilding the saloon floor and putting the engine back in place. $$$$.
Glad the problem was "easily" solved...Agree, the removal of the Starboard tank would require cutting the interior or the tank. On one boat I owned, I had to cut the tanks up to get them out. Tanks are usually put in place in production boats before the cabin and deck molding is attached to the hull, so they are just dropped in place. Finally C Dory wised up on the 25, and made a removable hatch to cover the fuel tank. (may not easy to remove or replace, but easier than cutting up furniture or deck.
On the TC 25, I wonder if the tank could be pulled aft and then eventually lifted out in two pieces? Then two new tanks could be installed.
Also in some power boats it is easier to cut the side of the hull out, remove the tank and then re-laminate the side (or bottom) of the hull. Seems drastic,
I replaced a tank in the 41' trawler . That required removing one engine, then cutting the floor out of the saloon, putting in the new tank, rebuilding the saloon floor and putting the engine back in place. $$$$.