Something you never want to see on your Outboard!! Help!

C

Captains Cat

New member
OK C-Brats, I got a problem :cry . Hauled Captain's Choice recently because my bride was having surgery and we probably wouldn't get a chance to use the boat again this season. No problems at all noted in the water. When I hauled it, brought it home and ran each engine for about 10 minutes in fresh water (I have a tank that fits around each engine). No problems noted there either.

Imagine my surprise when I noticed this!!

DSCN1543.sized.jpg



I have a shop manual and it looks like if this crack had breached the oil sump, I would have had oil come out. I haven't drained the sump yet to see if it's "milky" as it says it will be if there's water in there, that's the next step. I can't remember hitting anything, the prop isn't dinged and the skeg isn't marked particularly. Not sure what could have caused this. The engine ran fine all season.

If I pull the prop shaft, I believe this could be "veed" out and welded, it's aluminum of course. Anyone have any ideas/recommendations?



Charlie
 
DSCN1543.jpg

That's OK, Captain, this old E9 will cover your nether regions for ya

Don

Helluva crack. I saw one cracked like that before, but it was because a ski rope got wrapped around behind the prop. :amgry
 
Charlie, saw this happen when a line wrapped around the prop and jammed into the gap. If it's not too close to the shaft bearing support, welding it shoul be ok.
 
Charlie-

Wow! Would normally ask "How'd ja' do that? But since I know you don't know, we'll just leave it at Wow!

First thing I'd do is remove the prop and see if the crack is only in the external barrel part of the housing, or if it extends into the radial struts beneath or is into the gear lube casing. If it is only on the surface of the barrel and skeg body and not into the inner casing/hub housing or radial struts, my guess would be that it can be welded by a skilled heliarc specialist with the right equipment and alloy rods.

Hopefully you can assess the extent of the crack's damage once you remove the prop and clean the carbon and oil from the exhaust passages between the outer housing and inner hub housing. Very fine cracks may be very hard to see. I'd remove the whole lower unit and take it to a couple of outboard shops to get their opinion. They usually send that kind of work out to a prop shop or specialty welder. Removing the lower gearcase unit from the rest of the lower unit and shaft is easy.

To be sure that there no damage to the inner housing or to weld the outer unit, they may have to remove the propshaft assemby. (The heat of the welding process will cause problems with the seals, lube, and possibily other components.)

The whole propshaft assembly (forward and reverse gears, shift dogs, shaft, thrust bearings, etc.) comes out backwards from the inner hub housing inside the outer bullet shaped skeg body. You first have to remove the lower unit, take off the retainer where the vertical shaft enters the lower unit, pull up and remove the vertical drive shaft with the drive gear attached. Then you can use a spanner tool or wrench if appropriate to remove the threaded retaining collar at the end of the shaft and housing. Be sure to drain the case first. It should all slide out backwards. I think you also have to remove the shift dog lever and retainer as well. I don't have a picture of any unit in front of me and I'm just doing this out of memory from when I did it many years ago on an old Johnson, but the lower unit's basic designs haven't changed that much to my knowledge. You, of course, have the shop manual, so don't just take my word for it!


The only other consideration will be exactly how much crack damage can be successfully repaired, and that's where the shop's expertise comes in. Be sure and get a second (or third) opinion to be sure they're not just trying to sell you a new housing.

Good Luck and keep us posted! Joe.
 
Thanks Master Chief for the help! What did you see wrong with my post? Never too late to teach an O-6 :? I hope!

I have a shop manual and can see how to remove the lower unit. I'll do just that and follow the directions closely.

Now that folks mention what caused it for them, I do recall getting a fishing line (monofilament) wrapped around the prop/shaft a month or so before I hauled the boat but it wasn't a heavy line and I didn't think anything about it.

Will keep everyone posted, so to speak :teeth

Charlie
 
Hey Charlie, no problem. Mustangs are forever teachable. It's them Air Force types that can't get passes over 72 hours 'cause it takes too long to retrain them....

Technically the proper code should have been:
Code: 
[img]http://www.c-brats.com/albums/OutboardsandSystems/DSCN1543[/img]

But that didn't even work for me until I added .jpg at the end, thusly:
Code: 
[ATTACH=full]101373[/ATTACH]
Maybe El Nerd or phpbb is having a bad hair day.

In any case, your original link in the first message wasn't the right one. What you probably did was to copy the address in your browser address window when you were actually looking at the photo. Instead, right click on the photo itself, click on properties and then copy/paste that URL, which, as you would have seen, had Tyboo not Powerstroked your message to correct it, differs significantly from the address in your browser window.

.
 
Thanks! Tyboo Mike sent me a PM and got me straight. You're right on (as usual for E-9's). I got to E-4 before I went to OCS in 1964! My nephew is an E-7 on a 110' Island Class in the USCG on the gulf coast. Unfortunately, they are in the yard and can't get out to help the unfortunate folks there.l We're keeping them in our thoughts, I love New Orleans and it breaks my heart to see what's happening. I've got 50+ folks working there and in Pascagoula and we've located 75% of them so far. Really worried about the rest...

Heard earlier on the news that they had to suspend helo evacs from the Superdome because someone was SHOOTING at the helos. They ought to take some different birds in there along with a PUFF and take care of that problem. That is the most despicable thing I've ever heard of!!! :thdown :thdown :thdown :thdown

Charlie
 
Hello Charlie,
This is my first post/reply since joining this fine outfit. I have been lurking/learning all about C-Dory's and hope to have one on my dock in a few months.

I have the same problem on my Boston Whaler/Mercury 200 at the moment. I have been told by several Marine Service folks that is quite common in the salt water enviroment. Salt deposits mixed with carbon exhaust forms a dam that grows and causes the casting to crack. All the pros recommend dismanling the lower unit before wielding it. However the local welding shops seem to get the same result by placing the lower unit on ice during the process to act as a heat sink. Reports from several who have done this repair seem to show the same result as the Pro version at 1/3 the cost. Both repairs seem to work. The local pricing here in Naples, Fl. is about $200.00 on ice and $800.00 dismantaled and put back together.

Mine is heading for the welding shop on Tuesday.

Mike
 
The bottom unit can be mended with time and a bit of cash, however, how's the better half (first mate)? Sorry to hear she is not is good health. Our prayers are with her and you. Please keep us posted. Butch
 
Had the same thing happen on an old 35 Johnson. I caught after a couple of inches, drilled at the end of the crack and have used it off and on on a river boat for the last 8 years.
 
Charlie,

As stated above I think you should be able to have this welded back up. Make sure to drill a relief hole at the end of the crack before welding so it doesn't continue to crack after being welded up. I would forgo taking this to your local boat shop and instead head over to the local alum welding guru. Or better yet, do you have any local alum boat builders local? They would know how to handle something like this I bet.

Good luck with the fix! Hey maybe you can get the lower unit from Bill and Ell off their recently deceased motor.
 
At the risk of over-explaining something again, (ingrained teacher's habit), the pressure that can be developed by a wrapped up fishing line or rope is enormous, and probably accounts for this crack (lacking other probable causes).

A good rule would be to remove the prop as soon as practical after any fishing line or plastic rope has been wrapped around the prop and your are unsure that all of it has be removed.

Most more recent prop designs have square notches on the front leading edges of the hubs to help cut fishing lines and the like from spooling up on the prop shaft underneath, but we know these are not foolproof.

Any plastic line that gets by, spools itself up on the prop shaft from the friction of being compressed in the finite space available, develops incredible hydraulic pressure on all nearby components, and can easily burst the shaft oil seal and even crack the surrounding prop housing.

While you sometimes must wait until you get ashore to remove the prop, it's the first thing you ought to do both from a safety and economic point of view.

You do carry a prop shaft nut wrench and a supply of extra cotter pins along with a spare nut and prop, don't you?

Joe.
 
I got spares for everything on board except my bride! :female

She said I could have one of those too If I wanted, that I could have a trophy wife! When I said "Really honey?", she said "Yes, but she wouldn't last long 'cause I'd cut off her head and mount it on the cabin bulkhead" :smileo

Guess I won't try that!

Today I drain the lower unit and see if there's any water in there, keeping my fingers crossed.

Butch, thanks for the kind thoughts, I think she's feeling OK, she's getting ornery again..l. :lol:

Charlie
 
OK you guys keep me scurrying out across the internet on a daily basis just to figure out what you're saying...

I had to go look up EPIRB a bit ago after reading it in another thread.

This thread got me going again... but I can't find the answers...

Sneaks said:
Mustangs are forever teachable. It's them Air Force types that can't get passes over 72 hours 'cause it takes too long to retrain them....
Click to expand...
This is obviously some reference to some military group or another... I retired after serving 23 years and I don't know what or who Sneaks is talking about. Don't ask what branch until someone tells me what a "mustang" is!

Captain's Choice said:
someone was SHOOTING at the helos
Click to expand...
in New Orleans. I had not heard this until I read this thread. I was in Nam and saw Puff's magic up close and personal... I totally agree with Charlie... these people should not be considered Americans.

Now concerning the prop hub housing... I understand that the consensus is that some line could have caused the damage and what can and should be done if one expects line might have become entangled. However, there was mention that it could also have been caused by the building of a salty dam internally. Is there a cure for this? Should the lower housing be dismantled periodically and inspected? If so, how often?
 
Charlie --

We might have lower unit available -- get in touch with us via bill_fiero@hotmail.com if you are interested. We hope to be back to Halcyon next week. Anyone else interested in a working (but with 2,000 plus hours) Honda 40 or the other engine with a frozen block but other parts in working shape (also with 2,000 plus hours)?
 
OK, a "mustang" is an officer who came up through the former enlisted ranks and either was directly commissioned, went to OCS or became a warrant officer. I spent 5 years enlisted, in the reserve however and made E-4, an Electronics Technician and then went to OCS. Didn't want to make it a career however and retired in 1991 with only 32 years total...

Bill, I'll e-mail you about the lower unit. Definitely interested, probably the one on the blown engine would do just fine... Could strip out all of my internals (the ones on the engine that is) on my engine with only 350 hours and put them in your 2000 hour housing. Hopefully a 40 lower unit will fit an older BF 45...

Charlie
 
Looking back over this discussion, the salt/carbon dam build up hypothesis would seem to absolutely demand that flushing after salt water use be done with muffs and a warm, running engine instead of the static, cold water flush possible with the built in water hose attachment provided with most new outboards.

Of course, most of us would already be thinking in those terms anyway to get the temperatures up to help dissolve salt in the powerhead, but here's one more reason to do so.

However, using the muffs is more difficult or even impossible for those slipped or moored in salt water.

Just a thought! Joe.
 
Hard to believe that salt/carbon dam could cause enough pressure to split a round housing!

New subject, does anyone know if a 2000 Honda 40HP lower unit will fit on a 1994 Honda 45HP engine?

Charlie
 
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