Solar Panel Basics

colbysmith

Active member
Starting a new thread and hoping to keep it simple. I'm thinking of adding solar to C-Traveler. I want something portable and probably flexible that is easy to store without taking up a lot of space, and easy to deploy when needed. I have two group 29 house batteries wired in parallel that I will use the solar panels to recharge during the day while not running (Ie sitting on the hook or at docks without shore power and not using my generator or outboard). With my Engel freezer on board, I typically wake up with around 75-78% showing on my Vectron meter. Without the freezer, around 88-90%. I'm thinking 200 watts would be enough. What are others using, how are you storing and deploying it? Colby
 
What I ended up with was 2 130 watt panels from Overland Solar not cheap but they fold up the most compact. I use them for offroad and the boat.

overland1.jpg

overland2.jpg

You could also look at the BLUETTI Solar Panel PV200, 200 Watt for Portable Power Station it doesn't fold up as small but the price is better.
 
Colby, we have a Renogy 100 watt flexible solar panel. It weights only 4 lbs. and stores flat against the port side hull, under the dinette. When facing the sun, it keeps the 24 series lead acid house battery fully charged with the refrigerator running on low setting during the heat of the day. Having two panels could be better. It all depends on your power consumption.
 
Jody, I think the Overland would be out of my price range. Gary, I've been looking at their 200 watt panel that comes with a 40 amp controller. Just not sure what size that is and if it would store easily. I think I've also seen some of their rigid units that might fold up to something doable as well. Just not sure how well a rigid panel would mount on the boat. Not even sure where I'd mount it. Sometimes my roof is empty. Other times it has a bike rack with bikes, or a kayak rack with kayaks. Both of these racks mount to the hand rails and then sit perpendicular on top the roof. I could place the solar panel on my bimini, but it's not always up... Colby
 
colbysmith":2xft027y said:
Jody, I think the Overland would be out of my price range. Gary, I've been looking at their 200 watt panel that comes with a 40 amp controller. Just not sure what size that is and if it would store easily. I think I've also seen some of their rigid units that might fold up to something doable as well. Just not sure how well a rigid panel would mount on the boat. Not even sure where I'd mount it. Sometimes my roof is empty. Other times it has a bike rack with bikes, or a kayak rack with kayaks. Both of these racks mount to the hand rails and then sit perpendicular on top the roof. I could place the solar panel on my bimini, but it's not always up... Colby

Your examples are why the Overland panel would be great to have.

I don't like the price either though.
 
I currently have about 80 watts of solar on Mistaya and I am planning on adding more. Our current set up has two 10 watt hard panels mounted on the radar arch on either side of the radar. I also use two 30 watt flexible panels that can be tied onto the top of kayaks, on the roof or on the bimini. These can be easily stored in the v-berth when not needed. I also purchased a 50 watt square flexible panel that I plan to mount on the forward Bowmar hatch. So far the system has worked well as I am a minimal electrical user. Once we are on the hook, I play the radio and run the Wabatso and or Wallace heaters if needed. No fridge or freezer. In good sunlight I have enough capacity, but decided to add the 50 watt panel for those cloudy rainy days on the PNW. All of these panels run through a charge controller.

I think a couple of flexible panels may be your best option Colby, they can go on top of the cabin, bimini or your kayak depending on your need and then removed for transport. To keep your ice cream frozen you are probably going to need 200 watts. I think this is a better option than always having to run a generator. Personally I really don't like generators when camping and boating, they really take away from the peace and quiet that I am seeking. But then some of us enjoy ice cream and are willing to put up with the noise.
 
www.zampsolar.com makes a lot of different configurations for RV's, you might take a look there. We have a pair of their 170 watt panels on the roof of our camp trailer and a port to plug in one of their portable suitcase type models if we need more watts....they all seem to work
 
Colby,

I bought the 48x22 Renogy $140 100w flexible panel because it fits on the curved roof behind the Coleman AC unit. It can be stored in the aft head hanging up. Later I decided to just glue it down on the roof (Renogy advises a structural silicone adhesive). I’m going to put it over some plastic corrugated ‘cardboard’ for heat dispersion. This would allow some battery charging while trailering in addition to the Road Toad. Renogy says NOT to use the six brass grommets when moving. I don’t see why you couldn’t also glue it to your roof even with your racks attached to the hand rails. The 200w panel is 63x 30, maybe too big.

https://www.renogy.com/200-watt-12-volt ... lar-panel/

We have thunderstorms with 75 MPH winds so I wouldn’t like a temporary bimini tie down around here.

Put a towel over the panel if unplugging or plugging it in the sun…it will arc with 15 amps DC.

Wiring is solid copper 12 AWG. Fully tinned stranded Ancor 10G is better for boating, easier to handle and makes a tighter curve when installing. So buy the connectors but not the extension cords.

There are limits re connecting different panels with different cell numbers/types etc.

The controller (I chose Victron) must be protected inside.

Renogy US tech support is very helpful, call or chat with them before you buy.

Best of luck in finding a solution that works. At least they’re getting cheaper all the time.

John
 
B~C":2ul3do4v said:
www.zampsolar.com makes a lot of different configurations for RV's, you might take a look there. We have a pair of their 170 watt panels on the roof of our camp trailer and a port to plug in one of their portable suitcase type models if we need more watts....they all seem to work

X2 on ZAMP solar. I have a pair of their portable 170W panels and like them a lot. (I like them a lot in my truck camper -- I still don't have a C-Dory yet).

I have been told that what you really want to focus on is a MPPT charge controller. These higher-end controllers are able to use much more of the energy created by the panels. This is due to graphing and math, which I can't explain for I do not understand. But hopefully someone will chime in with the importance of an MPPT controller! :-)
 
You could also look at the BLUETTI Solar Panel PV200, 200 Watt for Portable Power Station it doesn't fold up as small but the price is better.
I missed that last sentence Jody. That's more in my price range and consideration. I am wondering what the efficiency rate means. This one shows only 23.4%. Thanks. Colby
 
looking at a glass panel from BougeRV and there rating

BougeRV 9BB Cell 200 Watts Mono Solar Panel,22.8% High Efficiency Module Monocrystalline Technology

I can't say how they get that number but it looks like the glass panel and the folding panel are about the same.

The trick is you need to be able to aim the panels at the sun. If they are laying flat on the roof you are going to get poor performance out of the panel. You can experiment with this just out on the ground. With a 100 watt panel aimed at the sun you should be able to get 5 or 6 amps out of that panel that should more than keep up with a fridge and a few extras. My reason for the Overland panel is because of how compact it is for storage and it has d-rings sew in the edges so I can hang it off the side of the boat or off the Bimini, on top of the Bimini or on top of the dingi. I think if you mount the panel you have to live with poor performance and your kind of stuck. Being able to move the position makes them much more effective at giving you the best output.

My DC to DC charger will keep my batteries up when I'm towing and when the boat is moving from day to day. So the only time you need the panels is when you get stuck somewhere for multiple days. Then if the weather is bad your stuck with the generator. Being stuck at the dock like you were was the perfect time to have solar and it probably could have been setup on the dock.



The Most Efficient Solar Panels In 2023
EnergySage
https://news.energysage.com › what-are-the-most-effic...
May 18, 2023 — Today, most solar panels are between 17% and 20% efficient, with outliers on either side of the range. High-efficiency solar panels exceed 22% ...
 
Not to change the subject, but I live in Florida (Jacksonville area) and with hurricane season upon us im thinking of going with a Solar Roof with a Power Wall by Tesla.

I can't really see the long-term value of a whole house generator which, if not used frequently, would require maintenance incl periodically changing out the old gas with fresh, carb, filters, spark plugs and potentially not being able to buy gas to operate if the power goes out for an extended time.

Ive read where some homeowners can run everything in the home incl AC and appliances and stay off the grid as long as necessary with the right amount of roof solar panels and power wall battery storage set up.

Has anyone had positive experiences with house solar systems? Setups? References to reputable companies?
 
jkidd":1tywxcka said:
looking at a glass panel from BougeRV and there rating

BougeRV 9BB Cell 200 Watts Mono Solar Panel,22.8% High Efficiency Module Monocrystalline Technology

I can't say how they get that number but it looks like the glass panel and the folding panel are about the same.

The trick is you need to be able to aim the panels at the sun. If they are laying flat on the roof you are going to get poor performance out of the panel. You can experiment with this just out on the ground. With a 100 watt panel aimed at the sun you should be able to get 5 or 6 amps out of that panel that should more than keep up with a fridge and a few extras. My reason for the Overland panel is because of how compact it is for storage and it has d-rings sew in the edges so I can hang it off the side of the boat or off the Bimini, on top of the Bimini or on top of the dingi. I think if you mount the panel you have to live with poor performance and your kind of stuck. Being able to move the position makes them much more effective at giving you the best output.

My DC to DC charger will keep my batteries up when I'm towing and when the boat is moving from day to day. So the only time you need the panels is when you get stuck somewhere for multiple days. Then if the weather is bad your stuck with the generator. Being stuck at the dock like you were was the perfect time to have solar and it probably could have been setup on the dock.



The Most Efficient Solar Panels In 2023
EnergySage
https://news.energysage.com › what-are-the-most-effic...
May 18, 2023 — Today, most solar panels are between 17% and 20% efficient, with outliers on either side of the range. High-efficiency solar panels exceed 22% ...

That system is looking more worth the cost. I’ll have to look again, but does it include everything needed? And I wonder if 130 watts would suffice. I suspect the combined freezer and frig running use 5-6 amps. I know my toad 10 gauge wiring from the pickup can barely maintain the current battery State with both freezer and fridg running, however with only the fridge it can also slowly bring the battery state back up to 100%. I’m also thinking when traveling unless I can find a way to secure the panel to the roof I would just secure it on the cockpit floor. Colby
 
Another thing to consider is shading of the panel. For instance, on a sailboat the shadow of the boom moving across a solar panel will probably have a more significant effect on the power output of the panel than would be expected due to the portion of the panel that is shaded. In some cases shading 1% of a panel can reduce the output by 50-80%.

There are solar panel designs that can mitigate the power loss due to shading.
 
It comes with cables but not a charge controller. My charge controller that I use is a Victron 110/20. I lets me use the same app as the battery monitor and easily change between battery types for different applications. My National Luna Fridge /Freezer only uses one compressor for both the fridge and the freezer. It has a spooler valve to control witch side is cooling so the current draw is the same for the fridge or the freezer. it just uses more duty cycle for the freezer. When It is running it is using just over 2.5 amps

Here is the link to when I tested my fridge
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=24846&highlight=
 
pcg":z3rert4i said:
Be careful when considering the purchase of flexible panels. This video is five years old, but is well worth watching to the end. Also, you can click on his profile to see all his videos and then search for "flexible" to see some more recent tests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onMZ_dRSFUs&t=205s

Paul, thanks for this video. BTW, I grew up in Campbell, Ca. where the author mentions. We have been using our Renogy 100 watt flexible panel for 5 years and with no issues. They are somewhat fragile and so you do not want to sit on it etc. What is nice about them is that they are adaptable and on a C-Dory, can be attached to face the sun with infinite locations to maximize performance. If somehow we damaged ours, I would buy another!
 
Ok, I'm working on a solar system with the help of a friend that has quite a bit of knowledge and experience with solar. And doing a lot of my own research and decision making on exactly what I want. I'll begin to document the process here.

I had not desired solar power before, but after spending 4 nights at Mackinac Island, where the marina was still officially closed due to construction, but some slips were allowed to be used, but with out electric power and rules against running a generator, the idea of solar began to take hold. My "toad" cable when towing hardly keeps up with the boat's freezer and refrigerator draw, and forget about putting any charge into the batteries. (It does do ok without the freezer along.) And there are a few other rare occasions where having solar would be helpful when in other locations for more than a day without electricity and restrictions on generator use.

I started out considering flexible and portable panels. But as my priorities revolved, I realized I would need something more permanent if I were to also use the solar while trailering. And then there is the issue of storage for portable panels when not in use. So that lead to my decision of going with the more solid panels.

From the beginning I figured 200 watts would be a good number to go with, and with my space desires, not really room for much more than that in a more permanent installation. Here are some pictures of my roof, and what my space limitations are.

IMG_7129.jpg

This is a stern shot of my roof. I have my mast light folded down in this picture. The mast light is on a pole 33" tall. It's that tall to clear my kayaks when they are stored up on the roof. I need access behind the anchor light to allow it to lay flat when folded down for traveling, or not in use. The port VHF antenna mounts on the handrail just a few inches back, allowing room for the kayak rack to mount. It also folds aft when stowed for travel, and lays next to the hand rail.

01PvcTemplate.jpg

This is a view with my kayak rack pvc mockup. The final rack is exactly the same, but made out of SS and uses hinged tees to mount to the hand rail. It sits high enough that will not be in the way of the solar panels. Depending upon sun angle, there may be some shadows produced on the solar panels. However, the rack is not installed when trailering, and if I'm sitting somewhere for more than a day and want solar power, the kayaks can be taken down.

207Ctraveler.jpg

This is a picture with the bikes and bike rack on the roof. Only time I used it was for the Erie Canal. I'll have to cross this bridge later, but I'm not sure there will be enough space between the bike rack cross member and the center of the roof, for the solar panels. I may end up not being able to use the bike rack with the solar panels installed.


With all this in mind, my space choice is to install two panels small enough to fit between the hand rail and the mast light, on both the port and starboard side. That still leaves me a little bit of room on the back of the roof if I decide later to put another panel there, or to store the rolled up kayaks there without the kayak roof rack. Colby
 
Power considerations. Using my Victron battery monitor, I checked my actual current use. I'll have to try and figure out where the leak is later, but with battery 1 (my house batteries) selected, and everything turned off I'm showing .17amps going somewhere. (With the main battery switch off, or in position 2-starter battery, I show zero amps.) My airhead toilet fan draws .08amps, refrigerator 2.5 amps, Engel freezer 2.52 amps, and one carfrano fan on high, .6 amps. That's a total of 5.82 amps. This is the most that I would have on during the day, and of course the frig and freezer cycle off and on. So if solar can produce 6 amps, then the battery isn't being drawn down. I would like to see some extra solar current then to also recharge the battery from use the night before.

Now there are many of you smarter than I when it comes to solar and electricity. But I'm hoping that 200 watts of solar panels can provide maybe 10 amps or more of current when the sun is shining.

I decided to go with two 100-watt Newpowa solar panels: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09D7 ... UTF8&psc=1
and a Victron controller:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075N ... UTF8&psc=1

I will make my own wiring from a good deal I got from Amazon on 10Awg duplex wiring;
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NUYAIA?ps ... ct_details

Using the following took kit:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078B ... UTF8&psc=1

Plan to initially install the panels in parallel using these connectors:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DJ5PHSB?ps ... ct_details

And I'll put this switch in the positive wire between the panels and the controller: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09H4WWNH4?ps ... ct_details

All this stuff is on order, and while the tool kit and connectors arrived today, the rest of the stuff will be here waiting for me when we get back from Door County next week. I hope to get things installed the short week after that before heading out towards Isle Royale National Park.

My plans are to mount the controller in the C-Traveler's closet, to keep the run between the controller and batteries short.

Side note. With the Duplex wire deal, I also ordered enough to rewire my main battery charger to the house batteries. The charger is located under the aft port dinette seat, while the house batteries are in the port aft bilge. However, when the factory built the boat, they ran the wires from the charger, under the cabin step, under the shower pan, and then along the starboard gunnel, and then into the wiring for the port battery at the main battery switch on the starboard side. The charger has single positive leads running for 3 batteries, but only one common ground lead. I'll run some of that new duplex wire along the port gunnel, shortening the distance and adding a separate ground wire for those batteries. - 2 group 29's in parallel.

I'll update this as I progress with this solar build. Colby
 
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