School me on Inflatable PFD's

S

South of Heaven

New member
I'm an excellent swimmer and consider myself a fish BUT I'm reevaluating my emergency equipment....

I'm gonna buy an inflatable PFD ASAP but not sure what to get. I've been looking at the West Marine, Onyx and Mustang brands.

I'm leaning towards buying a "belt" style because of its low profile and unobtrusiveness. But I don't like the fact that it's not "auto" aka "hydrostatic".

I wish there was a manufacturer that made a hydrostatic belt PFD.

What are you guys using? I'm in salt water and will occasionally being going offshore alone.....(I'm also buying an EPIRB)
 
We keep both the inflatables and the fixed more heavy duty preservers on-board.

We have the West Marine auto/manual inflate as well as the T-handle pull on the vests.

However, if we are in wind and waves and with even a few percent chance of going in the water, we don the fixed preservers. I don't want to take even the 1% chance that the auto inflate will work or that the T handle will work, or that I'll be in condition to blow into the manual inflate tube.

But around the docks, on the dinghy, and in good weather, the auto inflate is great.

Certainly if i was going off shore alone, I'd be in the fixed standard float face up off-shore preserver. I'd want to immediately be thinking about getting back onto the boat, no trying to find the T-handle or the blow tube. There is no second chance if you go overboard alone, off shore.

The WM vests seem as good as any and not that expensive. We do change the cartridges every two years along with the sensor.

Our inflatables want the inflator sensor to be in the water down about 8 inches before it will activate. That way, simple wet from wake spray or rain doesn't set it off.
 
Jason,
I personally prefer the hydrostatic offshore inflatable PFDs. You get 35lbs of floatation verses 25 lbs for the less expensive inshore non-hydrostatic. Not much different in size just a bigger co2 cartridge and a bit bigger bladder.
The hydrostatic are not necessarily more safe they are just less prone to inflation because they don't activate tell submersed, the non hydrostatic can accidentally inflate from just getting wet.
I actually have both types on the boat and have never had one inflate accidentally from getting wet.
As a general rule of thumb I would think that you need to spend upwards of $200 for a decent offshore inflatable, 250 to $300 for the hydrostatic version.
I prefer the inflatables over conventional pfds because you're more likely to put them on and they are a proven technology now that are Coast Guard approved.
 
We have been using inflatable PFDs for quite a few years as well as keeping the standard life jackets on board. I purchased one of the belt style PFDs just to try it. It never gets used. It gets in the way of everything when you are wearing it and is uncomfortable when trying to sit down. They are not as safe either. You must pull a cord to inflate it and once inflated you must be able to slip it over your head for it to work. They are not as safe as the standard suspender inflatable PFDs.
 
m2cw after reading your boating habits. Wearing is the key. Regular life vest should be fine and purchase comfortable ones that you will wear it all of the time. Purchase PLB which is different from EPIRB, and register it. Purchase a waterproof handheld VHF radio and attached to life jacket with the PLB. Use the radio often until you can use it in your sleep. Practice with PLB. most have a test button to check the battery and GPS as 2 separate tests to save the battery. Handheld radio may have a strobe built-in or add one to lifejacket. Aurelia posted previously on a high quality and low cost units. Prepare a ditch bag with safety items. Search on ditch bag for recommendations. File a float plan with someone when going offshore and pick your days. If you have boat towing service contact them for coverage area. When off shore I hail over vessels and write down their boat name and location. I firmly believe that you should be ready to help others, too. in emergencies and provide assistance.... gas, steering fluid, towing lines, food, water, blankets just waiting with them until help arrives.
 
The gist of the report relative to inflatable PFD's seems to be that in heavy waves, the part that wraps around the neck is easily dragged up over the head and you may have to, if capable, pull it back over your head. I think the number was that 5 of the 6 crew members had that happen with their inflatables.

Granted this was an unusual circumstance and set of conditions that caused the PFD problems. Also, there was no one, as far as I could tell, who was wearing a standard off-shore fixed PFD to compare their performance with the inflatables.

But a worthy read in a number of areas and lessons on lots of stuff that are applicable to any boater out in weather when something breaks...that shouldn't.
 
My Sheriff's dept marine unit uses Mustang inflatables and in the winter, they don Mustang float coats. That said, we purchased two WM hydro-static inflatable PFDs for our use. Price was right and quality seems fine. I prefer the auto inflate in case one is unconscious when you hit the water.
 
helm":db9u3xnu said:
I would read this before you trust your life to an inflatable PFD http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Uncontr ... 20Urge.pdf
Eric
Click to expand...

Here is a recent thread on this topic: http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#292601

The inflatables in question in the disaster have (had) what was probably a design flaw not shared by Mustang, and other brands.

Personally, I always wore a Mustang. Well, almost always. Only exception was a couple of times I put on a survival suit when things looked particularly unfriendly. I think the greatest benefit of the modern self-inflating vests is that they are easy to wear, so people do. Being a good swimmer won't save you from hypothermia. Neither will flotation, but flotation will keep you alive for quite a while after the hypothermia makes it impossible to swim. Drowning is how hypothermia kills people in the water. Actually, the flotation allows you to keep your head out of the water without expending energy (heat!) and thereby also keeps hypothermia at bay a little longer.
 
I have 4 inflatable PFD's on board. 2 Mustang Offshore with harness's and 2 without the harness. All are hydro-static versus the "other" style which uses a "pill" that can absorb moisture, even from the atmosphere and could inflate at any point depending on the ambient humidity.

I would look for something with some form of pocket and strap points for a PLB and strap to attach a VHF and maybe a knife. I also keep a strobe light attached as well.

Mustang is the leader in PFD design and production and they have set the bar pretty high. Good products and service. Your life depends on your PFD. Not a place to cut costs and corners.

I do carry Non-inflatable, Off-shore vest as well, but I ALWAYS WEAR the inflatable.

Brent's comments are spot on.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.highlight.jpg
 
The around the waist type of inflatable PFD, we wear only in the dinghy, in calm weather/water, to fulfill the requirement that we have a lifejacket in any boat. There are a number of negatives, and I would not depend on them in rough weather.

In rough weather, we wear custom made floatation vests, which have more quality closed cell foam, than the standard life jackets, and are rib protecting.

The US sailing, and Practical critique in the "Uncontrollable Urge" incident cited above, was a defect only found in the "Spinlock Deckvests". Spinlock claims to have corrected the issue which caused the vest to come over the head in surf.

We own a number of different type of vests. When offshore on sailing boats we always used the inflatable around the neck, (Often on top of our custom vestsI) with two tethers attached, so we could hook onto strong points. I agree that commercial type of users, and those who area in AK tend to use the higher floatation (great idea )vests. In very hot weather, we tend to use a vest which allows more air circulation--with the foam down low, in front, and high in back, with mesh between, for air circulation.

One disadvantage of the inflatable is that it inflates inside the cabin, it may be more difficult to get out, if the boat capsizes or sinks. Any jacket may cause floatation issues, but the bulk of the inflatable, makes it harder to get out of the door.

A May 2 article in Scuttlebutt outlines the issues in going overboard in the 2016 Ensenada Race from a Farr 40. The crew did not require lifejackets, tethers. But had gone over safety issues and a drill before leaving. The crew member had just come up from below at night and did not put a life jacket or tether on. He slipped and went overboard. The crew did react quickly and deployed a Dan Buoy which gave both a strobe light and flotation. Here is the crews conclusion about the incident:

Things we did right:
• Held a safety briefing before starting the race.
• Had a Dan Buoy, Life Sling, and throwing lines ready on the stern of the boat.
• When disaster struck, everyone kept their cool and focused on the jobs at hand.
• Organized quickly to start lifesaving operations.
• Kept Val in sight (we could only see the strobe when it wasn’t hidden by waves).

What we could have or should have done:
• First and foremost, we should all have put on life jackets and tethers much earlier. I, as skipper, should have set an example. There should be no fuzz on the dusk-till-dawn life jacket rule. And, life jackets should be worn offshore in big breeze.
• Always choose to hold onto the boat first, even if it means losing a tiller, a sail, or whatever.
• Ping the MOB GPS position ASAP!
• It would have been helpful to have a personal AIS or EPIRB system on board. With only 5 of us, we were all too busy to really use one, but it would have been a good back up system and essential if we hadn’t gotten the Dan Buoy to Val]
Click to expand...

The other comments I make from reading the article,
1. One person was immediately assigned the duty to keep track of the MOB (strobe)--He had a broken or dislocated arm.
2. There was difficulty getting this 200 lb man aboard, especially with an injury, even with a LifeSling. (I recommend the LifeSling, and lifting gear on any offshore boat)
3. All of the crew should have strobes, whistles, water proof vhf radios, and PLB on their jackets.
4. If all boats were required to have AIS (Transceivers, or just receivers), local MOB AIS transmitters should be on the life jackets. ($280)--range 4 miles.
5. Sailboats going down wind, with a spinnaker are hard to stop. They cut the halyard, got the sail and all lines in the water before starting the engine.
6. Many offshore racers who loose a MOB are not always as lucky or skilled as these folks.

Be safe. The PLB costs about the same as the local MOB AIS transmitter. Standard Horizon HX 100 (IPX7 waterproof, and floating) two for $84 on Amazon!
 
If you go in the water, you want to get back into boat quickly if it is not turtled. A nice swim ladder or swim platform is very useful, and again, be prepared to rescue others in the water with the ladder, floating line, ring buoy, other devices to retrieve them.
 
Recently there was discussion about inflatables on sale, on the deals thread, and I'm moving the continuing discussion to this thread, as it seems more appropriate.

Rogerbum wrote
1) they are much more likely to be worn due to the comfort
2) they provide a better range of movement when fishing, netting fish, pulling crab pots etc.
3) they are cooler in warm weather
Click to expand...

Hi Roger. I completely agree with your comments above. However, I believe you still have to perform the maintenance on the mustang inflatables. That is, annual replacement of the bobbins, and inflation to check for leaks and operation. For me, I'm willing to do that for the two I have for my wife and I, but not for keeping additional inflatables on board for other occasional passengers. Colby
 
Just a quick brief background of the comment above, it started with discussing if there is a need for inflatables to be worn to be counted. Ie, at one time the rule was the inflatable could only be counted as the personal PFD requirement, if it was worn, as opposed to just being accessible. This was the reply I had started with:

http://sailing.about.com/od/lawsregulat ... Dlegal.htm

That was from an "unofficial" link. However, doing some more quick research, I found this statement on the Hull Truth Forum:
Checking Inflatable Life Jackets During VSC
New Inflatable Life Jackets
Impact the VSC
Inflatable life jackets (PFDs) have gone through an evolution, since the production of the VSC manual, which affects the VSC process.
At the time the VSC manual was produced essentially all inflatable life jackets were “type V” and required that they be worn to count as a viable life jacket. There are now many USCG certified inflatable jackets available that are type II and type III when used on recreational vessels in addition to the type Vs. Further the need for the jacket to be worn to count is dependent on the specific USCG certification of each individual jacket model. Whether the jacket must be worn is printed on the label affixed to the inside of the jacket itself. Therefore,
Vessel Examiners now must check the label on inflatable life jackets to determine whether or not it must be worn to count.
This has been coordinated with the USCG Office of Auxiliary and Boating Safety.
R/C Bob Miller
Safety Committee

And then:

This comes from the official USCG link:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5214/pfdselection.asp


"Inflatable PFDs have a number of limitations as explained in the "Think Safe" pamphlet provided with them, and in some cases, as marked on them. They are not recommended for non-swimmers and not approved for use on personal watercraft and in water-skiing and similar water sports. Additionally, as characterized in the pamphlet, the reliability of inflatable PFDs is less than that of inherently buoyant PFDs. Some say that maintaining them is easy, but that is a small part of the issue. Actually doing the maintenance is the most frequent problem noted in studies to date. So, while inflatable PFDs may increase use in some circumstances, they aren’t suitable for all boating activities, and their reliability when maintained by boaters is yet to be proven."

Actually, the more I read about the inflatables, the less impressed I am with the two I have for my wife and I. I primarily got them for the comfort of wearing them full time when I'm salmon trolling. Truth is, if I fall overboard in Lake Michigan, I'd probably be better off with the old manual flotation style... There are some annual requirements for maintaining the inflatables, such as replacing the automatic inflation bobbin every 12 months. It's also worthwhile to get in the water with them each season to be sure they work. That then requires a new bobbin and cylinder, which is just about what you would pay for the cheap orange life vests... Colby
 
We have used inflatables and worn then since we started with our first C-dory. After using our vests and testing them three times, we are planning to replace them this winter just to keep the safety equipment fresh. We will be looking for two more inflatable models that are comfortable and have a good pocket for a few safety items as well. We do carry some non-inflating models on the boat as well and I actually wear one of them occasionally in the winter. We don't need any built in harness.

We don't have a brand preference and will be giving fit/features the priority.

Here is one example of a vest that has the goods for us.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/boating/ ... _104399280

Greg
 
Whatever model and mode of inflation you choose, it is critical that you blow them up and do a swim with yours on. We sea kayak a lot, cold waters, and we practiced self rescue ... reentry into the kayaks, assisted and nonassisted rescues, the whole ball of wax. And found that the harness and straps need to be firmly cinched in place, or the dang things shift all over the place. In addition, essentially none of the inflation is against the torso, although ours had very good inflation to support our heads when floating on our backs.

Otherwise, we loved 'em for use on our power boat, and felt they were ideal for that.
 
No question that inflatable vests have to be maintained. But for us that over-rides the many pluses--including the comfort and safety of wearing them (especially as we did crossing oceans, with incorporated harness and tether. Many lives have been saved by inflatable vests now. There have been a few failures, but those products were removed from the market--and corrected before released...

Let me say that I often say the $5 life vests from WalMart are often neglected, have rot, ties missing. They have no where the amount of floatation, which the inflatable vests have...For serious offshore racing/passage making, there are further precautions, for life saving gear. But having 35# of floatation, sure beats the 16# (less than half) floation of the Type II vests. We do have two Type I vests with 32 # of foam floatation--far better materials than the cheap vests.
 
I have spent a lot of time hanging upside down in kayaks in very cold water (in a drysuit) working on self-rescue skills. But for all that practice, I realize I have been pretty lax about maintaining the pair of West Marine “offshore” inflatable life jackets I keep aboard my C-Dory. I also have four good Kokatat vests in the locker under the passenger’s seat, but the inflatables are the ones my wife and I wear most often.

WM has a good article on inflatable life vest maintenance here, and that’ll be my project for tomorrow. (By the way, WM’s life jackets are on sale for a few more days. The ones I own are now half-price.)

When I went back tonight and read the specs on my alleged "offshore" inflatables, I noticed that they are listed as being "Type V with Type II performance."

According to the Coast Guard, an Offshore Lifejacket (Type 1), "is designed for extended survival in rough, open water." On the other hand, the Near Shore Buoyant Vest (Type II) is described as being "for calm inland water where there is chance of fast rescue." Can anyone explain this apparent--scary--discrepancy?

Anyway, great conversation, guys. It’s a splash of cold water for me--about 42 degrees in fact, which is the average February water temperature at Friday Harbor.
 
I do like the inflatables I have for my wife and I, and as I stated, wear them full time when out salmon trolling since that involves standing in the cockpit working with the lines frequently, on a moving boat, and many times solo. (I also carry a PLB and strobe light on the PFD when solo.) However, for the rest of the time where I'm mostly in the cabin or on local inland lakes during the summer, the old standby flotation PFD's (not the orange ones, but the nicer "ski" and "vest" type PFD's) are readily available just under one of the two forward cabin seats. Then during boating events with lots of boats in close proximity (4th of July at night), either those vests or the inflatables are worn while underway. My inflatables are fairly new, just two seasons on them, but I did "pop" them last summer once the water warmed up, just to experience how they worked in real time, and to check for leakage and such. The inflatables do work well! However, I would not trust them to be my only form of live saving vest on my boat. Thus, the reason for still keeping the other style on board.
 
Back
Top