I did a search and couldn't find any information so I am asking for help. The stern ends of my rubrails on my 16' are starting to pull away from the hull. There is about a 1/4" gap at this point. Can someone tell me how they are fastened at the ends. I am hopeful that the rail has some sort of bolt with a "T" head on it and all I need to do is stand on my head and reach up in there under the splashwell and tighten a nut. Can't tell just yet. I e-mailed the factory (twice) a couple weeks ago and they have not responded. Hopefully someone here has had one of the rubrails off and knows exactly how they are fastened.
rubrail coming loose
- Thread starter lloyds
- Start date
I don't know about the 16 for sure but the 22 of a few years ago and maybe still was put on with pop rivits. Pull the rubber out and take a "look see" and you might get your answer in short order. I won't try to tell you how to fix it, other then to say either pop rivit it back...or use a screw.
CatyMae n Steve
New member
lloyds":9hb5urqi said:
Prob'ly not this weekend! Snow, rain and hurricane force winds in the forecast for the next 3 days...better batten down the boat!! We figure we may just have to spend a couple nights in the boat where there's power and heat :teeth
Caty
I now have the answer, the rubrail is held on by pop rivets. So now the repair becomes a question. The last two rivets have pulled through the glass, taking large chips with them. I am assuming I can patch the holes with marine tex and re-drill the holes and put in new rivets? But will they just pull through again. No idea. Also, what size and material should the rivets be? I assume since the rail is aluminum the rivets should also be aluminum. I could also go with self tapping screws, any ideas on what is best? The e-mails to factory have gone unanswered. "frank" finally responded to my calls, a week or more after I called, and after the operator said she would personally walk the message back to him. Unfortunately the phone was off due to the weather.
:beerLloyd -when I extended my boat, I replaced the rub rails. I drilled a hole in the fiberglass just smaller than a ss machine screw and screwed it directly into the fiberglass. Did not use a nut on it. Ben Toland said it was better than pop rivets or self tapping screws and it has been holding very well since, even after I crashed into a dock at Port Townsend because of the wind.
________
Dave
________
Dave
Lloyds-
(just a reminder, hasn't been mentioned, yet!)
Whichever method you use, I'd suggest you consider using a sealer to keep water out of the inside of the hull. Splash water when underway, rainwater, and wash water may enter the hull otherwise.
3m 4200 would be my choice, but other bedding agents would work.
Work it into the hole and behind the rub rail so as to seal it well.
The process will be more messy for sure, but well worth it!
P.S.: I'd also recommend SS machine screws, large backing washers, and nylock nuts.
My $0.02!
Cheers!
Joe. :teeth
(just a reminder, hasn't been mentioned, yet!)
Whichever method you use, I'd suggest you consider using a sealer to keep water out of the inside of the hull. Splash water when underway, rainwater, and wash water may enter the hull otherwise.
3m 4200 would be my choice, but other bedding agents would work.
Work it into the hole and behind the rub rail so as to seal it well.
The process will be more messy for sure, but well worth it!
P.S.: I'd also recommend SS machine screws, large backing washers, and nylock nuts.
My $0.02!
Cheers!
Joe. :teeth
As closure, I worked on this problem saturday. I heated the rubrail with a hairdryer. As I was peeling it out with little effort the poprivets were peeling out with it. Really ticked me off. The rivets were in the pre-drilled holes but weren't actually through the hull, just caught behind the gelcoat. And access to the hull is a major problem. I took the control boot off and accessed the very last rivet, using a universal on the ratchet drive. I replaced that rivet with a machine screw and washer and nyloc nut, but don't have the confidence it is big enough to withstand any stress. I replaced the next two rivets with self tapping screws. One seemed strong, the other iffy. Frank from the factory finally returned my call yesterday and told me everything I already knew. Access is almost impossible, it is very difficult to do a real fix. He did offer to do it if I would take the 5 hour drive to the factory. But I have elected to take care of it myself. We talked about the other quality problems like gelcoat crazing around pop rivets and he says they now bond the cockpit panels to the hull, no more pop rivets because of the crazing. If I lived closer it would be great to let the factory deal with the problems. But it is also nice to know what and how your boat is built and maintained.
Cutty Sark
New member
I've been having some problems with my rubrail as well, I have water coming in through the rivet holes in a couple different places. I have been getting water in the cabin for some time now and after really trying to figure out the problem I found a couple spots where water is coming through the holes and running into the back. I had noticed this when I first got the boat and when I took it in for its first service Cdory smeared some bostic on the top and bottom edge of the rubrail and coated the inside of the holes with bostic. Obviously that didn't take care of the problem either since I've had water since. The good thing is with all the water coming in I was worried about the balsa core getting wet so I rebeded all the screws in the floor in epoxy. And the balsa was getting wet so I am glad I did. I have about three emails to Cdory in the past 5 weeks, none of them have I received a response from. I had tried to take the boat to Sea Ray of fife for them to fix it( which Cdory told me to do) But they couldn't find any leaks or so they said. Even though when I went to pick up my boat there was a 1/2 inch of water inside the cabin. I bought my boat direct from the factory and have definitly felt "stranded" since they quit doing service. This has been a problem since the boat was new and it is still not taken care of, I am a patient guy usually but it is wearing thin. This is going on two years and I still have to wipe up after any decent rain. I am going to give a call this week and hopefully they can get it resolved once and for all. I love my boat but have not been that impressed with the Cdory customer service which was one of the reasons I bought my boat. They had a good rep at the time.
Sark
Sark
Turn-around time for Frank, the tech service guy, is one to two weeks. It appears the factory just didn't take the rubrails serious when installing them. Whoever was doing it apparently didn't realize that water could actually travel behind the rail and enter the hull through each rivet hole. I would be surprised if not at least half the boats they have produced have had this problem. Probably in the warmer areas it doesn't really show, as the water leaches through so slowly that it evaporates without noticing. But here in the northwest it is really obvious. I am half tempted to take the time and effort to return the boat to the factory and make them take the whole rail off and do it right. But to me the most serious problem is their customer service. Most of us have the ability to fix these problems correctly over time but I always feel better hearing from the manufacturer and seeing what insight they can share. But for me the sharing of information just hasn't happened with the factory. And now that they are putting in prefabricated liners these problems will not be an easy fix at all.
Cutty Sark
New member
Interesting indeed, I do not have the time or desire to fix it myself personally. I paid good money to buy a new boat so I wouldn't have to spend time repairing things. I dont mind small projects and actually get enjoyment out of them to a point. But this problem has been frustrating to say the least, it's been a long time, and I just want a boat that stays dry on the inside. I've taken it in twice, once to the factory, and once to LUSR which does their warranty work now, or did then at least. I really do not want to take it there again, they seemed to not care as much since I wasn't buying a boat from them, just getting engine service and warranty work done. The service was done poorly and they didn't even try to do the warranty work. They just told me they hosed it down and there was no leak. I asked the guy why there was 1/2 inch of water in my cabin then? And this was while he was topping off the oil in one of my outboards with some of my oil I keep in the boat for emergencies(Don't they have oil of there own?) Anyway that really rubbed me the wrong way since I was paying for a service, plus they didn't change the fuel filter /water seperator etc.... Anyway I hate to gripe about it. I'm really just hoping to have this resolved in the next month so I can go about enjoying my boat.
Sark
Sark
I have a 2001 C-Dory 22' crusier. It appears to me that the rub rail was put on with some type of thru hull bolts. Their are bumps that protrude on the inside of the hull (they stick out about 3/4") that appear to be where the rub rail is bolted. It has a putty type compount that is painted with the interior gel coat. Anyone know if this is how they were attached in the past?
Today I noticed that my rub rail is beginning to pull away from the boat in one place, about 1/8". :x I can look behind the metal portion of the rub rail and see the grey rivit. Searching the site, I found that the fix involves drilling out the rivit and either installing a new rivit or a machine screw, washer, and nut. Does anyone have a photo of the finished product as it appears from the inside of the boat? Like the rest, the original install has each rivit coated on the inside and then covered with the sprayed gel coat or interior paint. Just wanted to see how some of you who repaired the rub rail finished off the inside. My rub rail is not yet a big problem, but I am just planning for the future.
John
Swee Pea
John
Swee Pea
This subject has been addressed before, but I didn't pay much attention to it since mine was fine.
Now I've noticed mine has pulled out farther this last season, :x about 3/8", now I consider it a possible water intrusion problem (between the fiberglass layer). I think it is due to the different expansion/contraction properties of the aluminum rail vs the fiberglass hull. I plan to drill out all of the rivets from about the windshield area forward (where it curves). I will then see how much access I have to either refill the holes with epoxy or seal with something like 5200. I'd prefer epoxy because I have a feeling the new holes I drill thru the existing rubrail holes into the hull won't line up after the rub rail is flattened against the hull. I'll use 1/4" SS machine screws with washers and nylock nuts, then paint to match on the inside.
At least that's my plan...
Now I've noticed mine has pulled out farther this last season, :x about 3/8", now I consider it a possible water intrusion problem (between the fiberglass layer). I think it is due to the different expansion/contraction properties of the aluminum rail vs the fiberglass hull. I plan to drill out all of the rivets from about the windshield area forward (where it curves). I will then see how much access I have to either refill the holes with epoxy or seal with something like 5200. I'd prefer epoxy because I have a feeling the new holes I drill thru the existing rubrail holes into the hull won't line up after the rub rail is flattened against the hull. I'll use 1/4" SS machine screws with washers and nylock nuts, then paint to match on the inside.
At least that's my plan...
Here are some thoughts I'll share with you.
Don't use aluminum pop rivets, they're much to soft, and the origin of the problem in the first place. If using rivets, use 3/16" Monel or Stainless Steel.
Unless you want to completely disassemble the rail to clean underneath it, replace only one rivet at a time for ease of alignment and operation.
If using machine screws, #10-24 or #10-32 in stainless should be adequate.
One central issue is how to minimize the size of the rivet heads, screw heads, nuts, or rivet shanks inside and outside.
Small bumps under the rubber rail will hide easily, but inside you want to keep the fastener heads from sticking out and becoming meat hooks or ugly bumpkins.
I'd first try to back rivet the rail from the inside so only the heads of the rivets would show, but this would require some help from a second person and some exact length rivets that just barely make a strong bond with the aluminum molding rail on the outside. I'd also use a Monel or stainless washer to secure the fastener fully rather than just riveting them to the soft aluminum, providing the height of the completed package would fit neatly under the rubber insert. Technically, zinc chromate paste should be used at any dissimilar metal junction like this, but using a weather seal compound would take precedence and using both would be difficult.
If using machine screws, the nuts would have to go on the inside, and the screw length should be just long enough to set firmly into the nylon part of the NyLock nuts. The NyLocks are smooth enough that their finish should be acceptable as long as the ends of the screws don't protrude.
Be sure to seal the hole and whichever fastener you use up with a sealant, e.g., 3M 4200, 5200, or something equally waterproof and able to seal the shafts against the sides of the holes, and of course, the hollow openings of the rivet shafts if you use them.
Some experimentation will probably be necessary to find the optimum solution.
Another thought: the rubber rail frequently pops out when "kissing" the dock with a firm landing approach.
I'd consider embedding the rubber insert in the aluminum molding with a rubber sealant, perhaps like a windshield sealer, to prevent these "nuisance" dislodgings of the rubber insert.
Just some thoughts to sort through from the bottom of the Cracker Jack Box!
Joe. :teeth :thup
Don't use aluminum pop rivets, they're much to soft, and the origin of the problem in the first place. If using rivets, use 3/16" Monel or Stainless Steel.
Unless you want to completely disassemble the rail to clean underneath it, replace only one rivet at a time for ease of alignment and operation.
If using machine screws, #10-24 or #10-32 in stainless should be adequate.
One central issue is how to minimize the size of the rivet heads, screw heads, nuts, or rivet shanks inside and outside.
Small bumps under the rubber rail will hide easily, but inside you want to keep the fastener heads from sticking out and becoming meat hooks or ugly bumpkins.
I'd first try to back rivet the rail from the inside so only the heads of the rivets would show, but this would require some help from a second person and some exact length rivets that just barely make a strong bond with the aluminum molding rail on the outside. I'd also use a Monel or stainless washer to secure the fastener fully rather than just riveting them to the soft aluminum, providing the height of the completed package would fit neatly under the rubber insert. Technically, zinc chromate paste should be used at any dissimilar metal junction like this, but using a weather seal compound would take precedence and using both would be difficult.
If using machine screws, the nuts would have to go on the inside, and the screw length should be just long enough to set firmly into the nylon part of the NyLock nuts. The NyLocks are smooth enough that their finish should be acceptable as long as the ends of the screws don't protrude.
Be sure to seal the hole and whichever fastener you use up with a sealant, e.g., 3M 4200, 5200, or something equally waterproof and able to seal the shafts against the sides of the holes, and of course, the hollow openings of the rivet shafts if you use them.
Some experimentation will probably be necessary to find the optimum solution.
Another thought: the rubber rail frequently pops out when "kissing" the dock with a firm landing approach.
I'd consider embedding the rubber insert in the aluminum molding with a rubber sealant, perhaps like a windshield sealer, to prevent these "nuisance" dislodgings of the rubber insert.
Just some thoughts to sort through from the bottom of the Cracker Jack Box!
Joe. :teeth :thup
Joe, appreciate your thoughts, always welcome. I haven't removed any of the rivets yet, but all will have to come out from about the windshield forward to the tip because the aluminum rail is bowing out considerably, it is too long to try and plant back against the hull. I figure I may have to cut off 1/8 to 1/4" at the end when it gets secured. I will do like you said, buy SS bolts (either 10/24 or 1/4") probably pan head or other small protruding head so that the rubber fits correctly. The bolts will protrude on the inside, but right under my windlass wiring, so it really won't be noticeable, especially if I paint them to match.
Maybe will get to it this weekend, not sure. I'll post my results.
Maybe will get to it this weekend, not sure. I'll post my results.