rubrail coming loose

Steve,

If you want to use 5200 it's $11 a 10oz. cartridge @ Home Depot. $5 for the tube. Unfortunately that's all of the 3M sealers they have. West Marine wants $20 for the cartridge.

Boris
 
Boris, thanks! Didn't even think to look at Home Depot. When I think of 3M's 5200, I immediately associate Worse Marine. Gee, I may have to use 5200 on more projects... :thup
 
Delta Belle also has this problem with her rub rail. Did the fixes work that were talked about in this thread?

Is it possible to use a screw (along with a washer) small enough to fit inside the rivet tube body to tighten down the rail from the outside? Would the aluminum body of the rivet be too soft to support the threads of a screw inside it?

Also, there seems to be a gap of 1/16" between the hull and the top sides behind the rub rail. Is this normal? I plan to fill with 5200 to seal.

Please let me know which fix worked best.

Thanks.
 
The local Wal Mart carries 5200 and 4200 both somewhere in the $6 and change range for the squeeze tube size, they also carry 2 part marine epoxy that mixes gray in color @$3 something. All in their little boating dept.

Chris
 
jimcinfra":2z6zwcgn said:
Delta Belle also has this problem with her rub rail. Did the fixes work that were talked about in this thread?

Is it possible to use a screw (along with a washer) small enough to fit inside the rivet tube body to tighten down the rail from the outside? Would the aluminum body of the rivet be too soft to support the threads of a screw inside it?

Also, there seems to be a gap of 1/16" between the hull and the top sides behind the rub rail. Is this normal? I plan to fill with 5200 to seal.

Please let me know which fix worked best.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I think the best fix is to drill out the pop rivets one at a time and replace them with 10-24 or 10-32 stainless machine screws. Use countersunk screws with fender washers on the inside and aircraft (Nylock) nuts. Keep the screws just long enough to get the threads started so the amount of screw that protrudes after tightening doesn't make a dangerous "meat-hook" to snag people inside. Add 4200 to the hole and to the screw before assembling in order to water seal the fasteners and hole off. If the threads are dangerously protruding after assembly, add a second Nylock nut, or an acorn nut (usually expensive), or a dab of silicone over the screw end to blunt the sharp end and threads.

If the screws are too far apart to cinch the rub rail up to a snug fit, add some more screws between the existing ones following the same procedure. If doing so, you may have to completely remove the strip and drill the stainless rail with the new holes, and then use a punch to indent the stainless rail to accommodate the counter sunk machine screw heads.

Stainless or Monel pop rivets will also work, but you definitely have to have a second person on the boat's inside (you can use a pair of Vice-Grips to hold the nuts on machine screws if working alone). Aluminum rivets are much too weak and soft. The big problem here is getting the rivets to tighten up correctly when setting them, and, secondly, if you have to remove the rail, then they all have to be drilled out, etc. Not only does this waste time and $$$, but the holes in the fiberglass get a little bigger each time you drill out the rivets, etc.

There's nothing wrong with using a sealant to make a nice looking fit between the rail and the boat, but if you have to disassemble the rail to straighten it for some reason (like bent in a dock collision), it's a much harder job with the sealer all over the rail parts.

If we're talking 3/16" pop rivets, the inside hole that the mandrill fits in will only allow about a #4 machine screw, and there's not enough strength in a #4 screw to hold the rail firmly when the rail is hit hard. If the rivets are aluminum, get rid of them and do it right with machine screws and be done with it.

Incidently, my black plastic insert gets knocked loose and comes out of the metal moulding rail sometimes when hitting the dock hard, etc. I've thought about sealing it in place with 3M 4200 or similar, but decided against it after considering how hard it would be to disassemble the rail for repairs, etc.

My $0.02 for free.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
One idea I'd like to offer: Use #10 stainless screws with nyloc on the
inside. Don't worry about the length initially, but rather come back
later and use a Dremmel with a cutoff wheel to get the screws to the
exact length needed. Maybe even #8.

I'm going to have to do this too, since I have nearly 1/4" between the
rail and the hull. I suspect that the aluminum is actually too long, so
I may cut out a piece... we'll see.

Mike
 
Hi guys, with the change in ownership at CDory is there anyone who is aware if the treatment of the rubrail has been addressed, for new boats? It's an important addition. :roll:
On a similar topic does anyone know if the hulls and decks are still being joined in the "old" way while still in the mold? I've seen some old posts that lead me to think the joint had changed to a more common shoe box type.
The keeping of the new parts longer in the mold and then joining them is one reason my wife and I are awaiting a new 19. Ours is currently in the "sanding" stage. Can't wait to get out there.
George
 
ghone":ftb7qhvn said:
Hi guys, with the change in ownership at CDory is there anyone who is aware if the treatment of the rubrail has been addressed, for new boats? It's an important addition. :roll:
On a similar topic does anyone know if the hulls and decks are still being joined in the "old" way while still in the mold? I've seen some old posts that lead me to think the joint had changed to a more common shoe box type.
The keeping of the new parts longer in the mold and then joining them is one reason my wife and I are awaiting a new 19. Ours is currently in the "sanding" stage. Can't wait to get out there.
George
Click to expand...

George-

The shoebox construction method has been discussed before. See:

New construction method?

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Thanks for the replies.

The machine screw w/lock nut method is the way I will go.

I mentioned the sealant not to attach the rub rail, but to fill the seam between the top half and bottom half of the boat which is hidden behind the rub rail. I have a gap of 1/16" where the molded halves are joined. Is this gap normal?
 
jimcinfra":33g6v78d said:
Thanks for the replies.

The machine screw w/lock nut method is the way I will go.

I mentioned the sealant not to attach the rub rail, but to fill the seam between the top half and bottom half of the boat which is hidden behind the rub rail. I have a gap of 1/16" where the molded halves are joined. Is this gap normal?
Click to expand...

The gap is probably due the the ShoeBox hull / deck joinery method. I don't think it makes any difference if the sealant is adequate inside the joint or if the top and bottom are glassed over throughly on the inside of the boat, as with the older system.

Still, if it makes you feel better to close up the open gap with sealant, go for it. You won't be disassembling the hull and deck there anytime soon!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
While repairing my rub-rails I found the same gap you seem to have on the starboard side only mine's about an eighth of an inch wide.
I repaired the port side without completely removing the aluminum but looking between the rail and the hull, I didn't notice any gap. It apeared to be all finished gel-coat. The starboard side has loose, raw fiberglass fibers coming out of it. :amgry
I think I'll remove the aluminum completely from the starboard side and see what the H---'s going on.
 
How much sleep should I lose worrying about that open crack? It wasn't obvious on the port side. The pictures are a good representation of the entire starboard side of C-Dory. Any ideas as to the best fix? Planning on a three week trip to Lake Powell on the 5th of September so I need to fix this quickly.
 
Roy and Lucky":8uan7264 said:
How much sleep should I lose worrying about that open crack? It wasn't obvious on the port side. The pictures are a good representation of the entire starboard side of C-Dory. Any ideas as to the best fix? Planning on a three week trip to Lake Powell on the 5th of September so I need to fix this quickly.
Click to expand...

Roy-

Is there any evidence that water can or is entering the boat through this crack?

Can you see water coming through the hull joint on the inside of the boat when you spray the crack with a hose and reasonable water pressure?

What does the inside of the joint look like? Is it glassed over and smooth or can you see the lower part of the hull end where it slides into the top half of the "shoebox" joint?

Is there any evidence that the top of the cabin and the bottom of the hull have actually moved apart causing the gap? If so, you may have a larger problem than just a cosmetic gap!

If it's sealed and/or there are no leaks, I'm suggesting that you can fix it at your leisure after the Lake Powell trip.

On the other hand, if it leaks, you'll have to fix it now.

You could always fix it temporarily with something easily removeable, like Gorilla Duct Tape, then go back an do it right after the trip.

To do it right, ought to be filled with a tinted epoxy putty, like Marinetex tinted with a universal coloring kit or finished over with a layer of matching gel coat supplied by the factory.

I'm not sure exactly how to tell you to remove the existing putty to start a fresh fill-in job. It's probably very hard, so will have to be removed with a power tool, probably a Dremel tool, which will be pretty tedious and time consuming. Cover the area above and below with masking tape to help prevent marring the surfaces if you "slip up" with your hand work.

If, on the other hand, the top and bottom fiberglass parts of the cabin and hull have actually moved apart, you're going to have to find a way to get them back together as much as possible and re-bond them. If they can be moved back together, repairing the gap may become easier. Since you can't get totally at the joint like they could before they were joined, I'd suggest you bond them on both outside and inside with as much Marinetex as you can force into the joint, and then also mechanically bond them with machine screws and nuts, or Stainless or Monel rivets as suggested earlier.

I'd also suggest you even consider the old way of doing it as an alternative , which is to completely fiberglass over the joint from the inside of the hull, say with 6" fiberglass tape, maybe 3-4 layers of it, then fill in the gap outside with tinted Marinetex, then reattach the rub rail mechanically as described.

Is there any evidence the other side of the hull may be doing the same separating?

Which of these methods or combination of them you pursue should be determined by how severe a problem you have, and how sure you want to be that it is fully rectified.

That's my $0.02 for now!

Good Luck, keep us informed on what you find, and have a good trip to Lake Powell!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
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