reverse chines pro/con

G

Gene Stebbs.

New member
I know what reverse chines are and what they look like on a glass hull, my question is what are the pro/cons on a semi dory type hull. I suspect this will mostly be an opinion driven thing, and sea/ weather conditions playing strongly into the equation, I am pondering whether the 26' Venture is really a better choice than the 25' cruiser, Thanks for your time and sharing nature guys. Sorry if I missed this in the archives and previous threads. I have been spending a lot of time reading and hopefully learning a bit.
 
I understand that the Venture hull is slightly different from the C-Dory. I can't compare the two, since I've never been on a Venture. However, from my C-Dory experience, here's one opinion: the C-Dory chines work well, so I wouldn't expect a large difference with the Venture. The question to ask is how the deeper V on the Venture works.

The C-Dory has a couple of reverse chines. Once you're up o plane, the spray is knocked down by the chines and doesn't come over the bow or even the sides. If you're in open ocean, those chines do a good job of keeping the wave spray off the bow and front windows, even going downwind when you're plowing into the back of waves. Last month we were in the Santa Barbara channel, going cross wind and when the spray started coming over the cabin and the hull came crashing down, we decided to quit that and go back. Next day was doable with no spray forward.

So in summary, the C-Dory chines work well. However the C-Dory has a flat bottom, The Venture is reputed to have a deeper V.

Boris
 
Yeah, the specs show only a couple of inches more draft on the Venture so the V hull cannot be that much deeper, just curious if there was a noticeable difference in handling in rougher seas. Just something else to think about as I have lots of time to think before I buy and launch, I don't think I would go for the Venture over the cruiser without a few glowing reports about the pros of the venture, size wise there are only a few inches difference in all dimensions. I am sure it is also a fine boat, like all the c dory "fleet"
 
Gene Stebbs.":2qpberhm said:
Yeah, the specs show only a couple of inches more draft on the Venture so the V hull cannot be that much deeper, just curious if there was a noticeable difference in handling in rougher seas. Just something else to think about as I have lots of time to think before I buy and launch, I don't think I would go for the Venture over the cruiser without a few glowing reports about the pros of the venture, size wise there are only a few inches difference in all dimensions. I am sure it is also a fine boat, like all the c dory "fleet"
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t

With all respect, the difference is not to be measured in a couple of inches. When we had the decision to make between the two boats configuration, fittings and finish did come into the picture for sure. More than anything though, it was the ride that convinced us. We took both out in a good 3ft chop. The Venture was, give or take, 1000 lbs heavier and that, combined with the different hull, was very noticeable. You pay for that in fuel and that's on top of the significant difference in up front price tag. Is it worth it to everyone? Answer has to be "No". It was worth it to us and we've never regretted the decision.

If you really are going to decide between the boats, put them side by side. Walk through them both and decide what you like. Then take them both out and put them through their paces. Finally, decide what you are willing to pay for and then make your choice. Either way you will get a great boat.

Good luck!
 
Gene Stebbs.":8qyg6hf6 said:
Yeah, the specs show only a couple of inches more draft on the Venture so the V hull cannot be that much deeper, just curious if there was a noticeable difference in handling in rougher seas. Just something else to think about as I have lots of time to think before I buy and launch, I don't think I would go for the Venture over the cruiser without a few glowing reports about the pros of the venture, size wise there are only a few inches difference in all dimensions. I am sure it is also a fine boat, like all the c dory "fleet"
Click to expand...

With all respect, the difference is not to be measured in a couple of inches. When we had the decision to make between the two boats configuration, fittings and finish did come into the picture for sure. More than anything though, it was the ride that convinced us. We took both out in a good 3ft chop. The Venture was, give or take, 1000 lbs heavier and that, combined with the different hull, was very noticeable. You pay for that in fuel and that's on top of the significant difference in up front price tag. Is it worth it to everyone? Answer has to be "No". It was worth it to us and we've never regretted the decision.

If you really are going to decide between the boats, put them side by side. Walk through them both and decide what you like. Then take them both out and put them through their paces. Finally, decide what you are willing to pay for and then make your choice. Either way you will get a great boat.

Good luck!
 
There is a great set of side-by-side photos of C-Dory and Venture (~Cape Dory) somewhere here on the site.

However, I'm not sure whether they're of the 22/23 or 25/26 pairings.

And I can't find them myself right now.

But I'm getting older, my memory becoming iffy, etc. .................!

Seawolf Joe in the Infirmary. :lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
reverse chines keep your 22 drier, and they trap a little bit of air under the hull, reducing the pounding ever so slightly.

In terms of handling (which is likely their primary purpose) they absolutely prevent the 22 from sliding in sharp turns. If you have every run a true dory (or something analogous like a commercial skiff by Miller) these are missing. The result can be a real tendency to slide sideways on sharp turns.

I've never operated a semi-dory aside from a c-dory 22, however they make a big difference in terms of keeping the boat tracking where you want it. I believe this is a big part of what makes the boat so easy to handle at slow planing speeds.

THE ONLY CON that I know of regarding the reverse chines on a CD22 is the tendency to grab and edge and turn the boat when at planing speeds with the engine trimmed too low. Essentially the chines are too wetted, and if the boat lists, they act as a rudder. If you simply remember to trim your engine up as you get to planing speed this will not happen.
 
I have the C-Dory 26 Venture. Never had another C-Dory ride for
comparing reverse chine or "V" differences in the hull. I went for my
current model because of the length, features and liked the concept
tooted about the "deeper V" since I had a true deep V previously which
was a 28' performance hull not comparable to the 26 Venture.

That said, there is also no comparison to the ride in a true deep vs the
"deeper V'd" 26 Venture. This explains (I should have known) my
occasional disappointment in the 26 Venture handling head or
quartering seas seas over 2'.

My take on this is it depends on what you want in a sea boat and what
you have experienced before to make the comparison. In short, more
"Ving" a flattish bottom hull forward, as in the Venture, will soften the
ride to a point. The softest ride is a total "V'd " hull and that has an end
point as well.

Reverse chines, as stated, help with the ride by giving lift, stabilizing
a turn and lessening spray.

Aye.

Grandpa used to say, "No boat is good in all conditions."
 
Foggy nailed it. C-Dory is based on a dory hull, which is flat. In a sea it pounds, and you solve that by slowing down. I would assume the Venture is the same. A deep-V hull is for cutting through/bouncing over seas, and I have watched sport fisherman blow by with their 2 ea 200 hp motors going full blast on their 26' sport fisherman, while we tiptoed through. We were impressed, though net enough to trade in Journey On.

So why get a dory hull? They're easy to plane, use less hp and gas, and handle better at the speeds I like to travel. For my purposes, the C-Dory is the boat I need/Judy wanted, not a Grady-White (just as an example.) And we've not been disappointed.

As to the chines helping the C-Dory turn, understand we came from sailboats. The C-Dory turns like our Achilles dinghy. You turn the wheel, the boat turns sideways and you get around the corner. Finally. If those chines help turning, I've missed it. Before everyone gets excited, remember how a sailboat turns: it pivots around the keel. I do agree chines knock down the spray.

Boris
 
I meant no offense toward the Venture boats, I may even end up with one as I have seen/ heard no real deal breaking cons about them. just curious how much what must be a fairly small extra "v" at the stearn and other hull changes would impact the handling/ride, compared to the standard boats I imagine driving each in rough and calm seas would be an opportunity next to impossible to come by, as I stated before I am sure they are fine boats just like the classic cdorys. I plan on buying used so that in itself may have as influence in my choice as anything. Again I was not putting down the Venture line in any way. My experience is nearly all with 30+ ft. displacement hulls except for some runs a couple of summers off the beach at Cape Kiwanda in a 20' Kiwanda Dory with center console and an engine well (if I recall the size, might have been 18') this was back in the late 60's
 
journey on":cdmno863 said:
SNIP
As to the chines helping the C-Dory turn, understand we came from sailboats. SNIP Finally. If those chines help turning, I've missed it. Before everyone gets excited, remember how a sailboat turns: it pivots around the keel. I do agree chines knock down the spray.

Boris
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Most power boats, with rudder(s) at the stern, turn with the stern carving a
greater radius (longer, wider) through the water than the bow (there's little
resistance to the change in direction here) ; maybe unlike a motor vehicle
where the front tires initiate and guide the radius (shorter, narrower) of the
turn.

A sailboat with the keel forward of the turning force in the stern changes the
dynamics (more resistance to the change in direction) of the turn acting more
like front wheels of a vehicle allowing the vessel to "pivot" sharper then a
power boat. If the keel of the sailboat were even further forward (imagine)
the sailboat would turn even sharper.

Now add reverse chines. These act as "short - but smaller - keels"
forward of the turning force at the stern. This helps the vessel with
them make a "sharper turn" than a similar vessel without them.

Aye.
 
We have owned the 22 cruiser with a 90 suzuki and now have a 23 cape cruiser venture which is the same hull and top as the c-dory venture The differences have been a much nicer cabin ammenities in the c-dory version.
The reverse chine is actually in the back of the boat where the deeper V is. The reverse chine is also larger then the cd -22.The CC 23 has about a 6-7 degree deadrise VS. a 3-4 degree in cd 22 .This reverse chine and small 2 in. keel keeps this cc 23 going straight with very little steering required .It also is about 800-900lbs heavier VS. cd22 .The ride is very nice as long as you slow down in 2-3 footers .We can plane off in 10-12mph top speed with a f-115 Yamaha is 30-33 mph the sweet spot is 22-23mph at 4500rpm . We have had deep V sport and fishing boats but what we like is its shallow draft and very capable in the Gulf of Mexico . BTW the 26 Venture is very similar except it has 3ft more cabin for toilet /shower and more storage it is also 6 inches wider .The v-berth is very similar .Good Luck in your Quest Jim
 
Good post, that is the comparison and specs I was hoping to see, thanx much, that helped a lot in helping me get a mental grasp of the two boats and their differences/similarities, both would be good boats for my needs but I am pretty much set on the longer hull for SE AK and the trip back and forth, if that is required, I am a beliver in the longer the boat the better the ride train of thought, it was very noticeable between a 36'and 42'deep V
 
I had a Venture 23 and often traveled with friends that had 22's. The Venture will take a mild chop at faster speeds without a lot banging. The Ventures because of the mildly sharper V up front are still a flat bottom aft. They center well on a trailer as the sharper v in in the center then it has wide chimes on the outer edges. Those wider chimes can be a source water noise lapping against them at times even at anchor. The Venture or Cape Cruisers are more or less an evolution of the C-Dory 22' and the 25' cruisers. A I think most would agree that while the Ventures/Cape Cruisers ride a slight chop a little better they will pound you if you run too fast in 2' to 3' chop. The boat beyond 30 mph can get a little squirrelly. Ours had a 150 hp Yamaha four stroke and could hit the low forties. But doing that speed and adjusting trim to lift the bow I guess you could say it would start chime walking. Not really enjoyable. I limited our boats speed to about 30 mph tops which you can get away with in a slight chop maybe a foot our so. In heavier chop the Ventures can walk away from a standard 22' because it can handle I say about 5 or six mph more before it to starts banging. If going moderately faster is important then the Venture is a clear choice. If you really are happy with cruising slower speeds and slowing down a little more in rougher water the 25 or 22's will do just fine.
D.D.
 
You'll have to consider whether the bit better ride in the Venture is worth the extra weight when towing it around. If you don't expect to tow a lot it might not make any difference, but one of the advantages of these boats is the ability to trailer them easily to experience different boating areas.
 
That was the stopper for me on a Cape Cruiser 23 vs. a C-Dory 22. The rigs I tow with had room to go up to around 5,500#. I didn't want to feel like I had to watch it super closely. I went with a 22 and with the boat fairly loaded with tools and gear (although fuel tanks empty), I'm at around 4,600#, with around 330# of that being tongue weight. So for me, the 22 works well due to the lighter towing weight. And of course it's a nice boat in other ways, too.

I spent a few weeks on a Marinaut 21, which from what I gather is somewhat more "evolved" like the 23 is, and it was a fine-riding boat. I like that it has more reserve buoyancy aft for today's heavier motors, larger fuel tanks, etc. But then the 22 has that appealing "VW-ness" to it :) There's just something "right" about it, even if it's not the most evolved design.

Hard to go too wrong with any of them, but I can see where the 23/26 would handle a bit better than the 22/25.
 
Thanks to all who have posted. Very informative and great to hear these real life experiences and comparisons as well as other considerations when deciding on a boat purchase.
 
I would also like to thank all for the typically fast and helpful experience based posts. I think for my plans/need a standard 25' cruiser will ne best, there is only a few inches of actual more length with the 26' Venture I do not care for more speed at the low or top end, would rather put the extra weight into extra fuel capacity if I can find a space big enough to make it worth while. I can see where the Venture would be the better choice for many boaters. I am gratefull for those who have given info that lets me make an informed choice. Another question down and probably many more to go.
 
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