Question about Raymarine/Raytheon Sportpilot
- Thread starter Sunbeam
- Start date
c-ness":69dy1q2x said:
I'm considering that as an option if I can't get the slop out of the Sportpilot. The only "problem" is that since I have cable steering, I would also have to change to hydraulic steering (and the cable is working fine). Not necessarily a deal-breaker, but just one of those "the plot thickens" sort of things.
One feature I might appreciate is that with the non-Sportpilot autopilots, as I understand it, the wheel does not move (spin) when the pilot is working (which it does with the Sportpilot).
Here is a copy of the exploded Sportpilot/+ diagram from Raymarine. (I had to shrink it to post it in my album; PM me if you need a larger copy.) It seems like the slop is coming from part #6, which is the part just left of the center of the diagram that sort of looks like a vehicle wheel rim with four holes.
Captains Cat
New member
Sunbeam":2lbiftoz said:Thanks for your responses. On the one hand, great, it's not how they all are. On the other hand, huh, I wonder why mine is that way, since it's hardly been used. I did think it would be pretty weird if they were all like that and people just accepted it.
I've copied in Brent's photo: The part where you can see a brass ring with slots and then holes behind it is where the slop is on mine. Mine looks the same in general. The boss that attaches to the four holes is tight and there is no slop on the boat's steering shaft at all. The problem seems to be within that brass ring/slots section.
On your Sportpilot(s) with no slop, does the part with the slots move independently (in a clock-like plane) from the part just behind it that has the holes? Mine seems to, but also it seems like something that may be supposed to happen when the pilot is working.
Perhaps I'll take mine apart (the tombstone shaped part) to see if there is something loose behind the brass ring with the slots.
Thanks,
Sunbeam
Just a thought... Is there any way to temporarily "block" that slot in the picture? Try putting something in there that stops the thing from sliding back and forth in the slot. Not sure why the slots are there.. Maybe they are "slop slots"?
Charlie
An update on my Sportpilot, which was giving the steering wheel on my 22 Cruiser a very annoying amount of side-to-side slop. I think the problem has been found and can be fixed. Yay! I won't be able to find out for sure until I launch, but what was found seemed wrong and allowed slop, which then went away when it was corrected. So here's hoping it fixes my Sportpilot and also the other folks' who have the same problem.
So, to review, here is what you see once you remove the wheel/nuts/steering boss (referenced in drawing in first post). This photo is Brent's Sportpilot+, but what you see at this point looks the same as on my Sportpilot. The part we are interested in is the brass "wheel" you see, which is labeled as part #6 on the exploded diagram I posted partway through the thread.
First, remove the Sportpilot from the steering column (on mine that was accomplished by removing the wheel/nuts/Sportpilot steering boss, and then one athwartships screw at the center hinge of the torque bracket ("flamingo leg" bracket that attaches bottom of Sportpilot to helm bulkhead). Note that the manual recommends you have the helm hard over to starboard and that you don't "brace" against the Sportpilot when you loosen/tighten the steering-shaft nuts - just let it spin around and let the end of the steering travel stop it.
Once the Sportpilot is removed, you'll have the entire black tombstone-and-stalk unit in your hands, with part #6 showing just as it is in Brent's photo above in this post. If you turn the Sportpilot over, you'll see six deep black holes in the plastic case - each one holds a hex screw that takes a 3mm hex wrench. Once those are out you can "crack" the Sportpilot in half and get part #6 out (there are wires and etc. still so don't just pull it apart with abandon - I just separated it enough to extract #6.
Here is part #6 "right-side up" on the table (in other words the part that faces you when you are at the helm is the "top"). I added some descriptive text to the photos - it may be a bit hard to read but I figured that way if people saved the photos they would have the pertinent info right on them. I'll repeat it here in the post though.
If you turn part #6 over, there is a black plastic, toothed ring that you can pull off. It's indexed so it can only go back on in one orientation.
There are three small screws on the "back" of the brass part. On my Sportpilot these were loose. By putting two of the case screws (same size) into the "front" of part #6 and using them as handles, I was able to tug on this part and recreate the side-to-side slop that I felt in the wheel (and let's hope it was all coming from this - I think it probably was...).
These three screws can be tightened with a 1/16" hex wrench. Once they were tightened part #6 passed the "tug test" with nearly no slop - very different from when they were loose. This is the stage I'm at now. Normally I wouldn't post until I had completed a repair and tested it, but I won't have it tested right away, and since there were other people who, like me, were about to rip the thing out and get rid of it just to alleviate the slop. I figured I'd post the information I have now.
I think I'm going to use some Locktite on these three screws, and then also check to see if I need to lubricate the Sportpilot unit at all (there was a small amount of grease on various parts that I wiped off with towels in order to work on it - although no fluid like you see in Brent's photo).
Sunbeam :hot
So, to review, here is what you see once you remove the wheel/nuts/steering boss (referenced in drawing in first post). This photo is Brent's Sportpilot+, but what you see at this point looks the same as on my Sportpilot. The part we are interested in is the brass "wheel" you see, which is labeled as part #6 on the exploded diagram I posted partway through the thread.
First, remove the Sportpilot from the steering column (on mine that was accomplished by removing the wheel/nuts/Sportpilot steering boss, and then one athwartships screw at the center hinge of the torque bracket ("flamingo leg" bracket that attaches bottom of Sportpilot to helm bulkhead). Note that the manual recommends you have the helm hard over to starboard and that you don't "brace" against the Sportpilot when you loosen/tighten the steering-shaft nuts - just let it spin around and let the end of the steering travel stop it.
Once the Sportpilot is removed, you'll have the entire black tombstone-and-stalk unit in your hands, with part #6 showing just as it is in Brent's photo above in this post. If you turn the Sportpilot over, you'll see six deep black holes in the plastic case - each one holds a hex screw that takes a 3mm hex wrench. Once those are out you can "crack" the Sportpilot in half and get part #6 out (there are wires and etc. still so don't just pull it apart with abandon - I just separated it enough to extract #6.
Here is part #6 "right-side up" on the table (in other words the part that faces you when you are at the helm is the "top"). I added some descriptive text to the photos - it may be a bit hard to read but I figured that way if people saved the photos they would have the pertinent info right on them. I'll repeat it here in the post though.
If you turn part #6 over, there is a black plastic, toothed ring that you can pull off. It's indexed so it can only go back on in one orientation.
There are three small screws on the "back" of the brass part. On my Sportpilot these were loose. By putting two of the case screws (same size) into the "front" of part #6 and using them as handles, I was able to tug on this part and recreate the side-to-side slop that I felt in the wheel (and let's hope it was all coming from this - I think it probably was...).
These three screws can be tightened with a 1/16" hex wrench. Once they were tightened part #6 passed the "tug test" with nearly no slop - very different from when they were loose. This is the stage I'm at now. Normally I wouldn't post until I had completed a repair and tested it, but I won't have it tested right away, and since there were other people who, like me, were about to rip the thing out and get rid of it just to alleviate the slop. I figured I'd post the information I have now.
I think I'm going to use some Locktite on these three screws, and then also check to see if I need to lubricate the Sportpilot unit at all (there was a small amount of grease on various parts that I wiped off with towels in order to work on it - although no fluid like you see in Brent's photo).
Sunbeam :hot
Captains Cat":1a2ng078 said:
Just to clarify, the slop in the steering wheel was not in the plane of those slots, which would be moving in a circular way, like a clock's hands. So it was not like "loose steering" in a car, where you can turn the wheel left or right quite a ways before actual steering occurs. The problem was 90º to that -- it was a rocking motion. If I put my hands on the wheel in the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock positions, and I alternately pulled and pushed on those spots (forward and aft), the wheel would rock.
BrentB":uleo42x1 said:
Thanks for letting me know. Mine was not too hard to get off originally, but after tightening the main nut to ~25 ft. lb, as recommended (hoping that would fix the problem), it was a bit of a wrangle to take it back off. It did come off by using a modified socket extension as a sort of drift on the shaft (after loosening the nut of course) and giving it some healthy hammer "taps" while also pulling steadily on the autopilot.
Awesome...maybe that's what's up with ours. I turned it on a couple days ago to see if it was still working ok and all it did was make noise...no wheel movement. Maybe those screws that were loose in your photos fell right out or something. I'll have to tear into it when I get time.
Thanks again.
Rick
Thanks again.
Rick
Hi, I'm a newby to the forum but can add a bit to this thread since I have a Sportpilot and have taken it apart a number of times. My pilot also has a bit of slop in it and has had since new and I think it does add bit of play into the steering which can't be completely removed. However, some of you have mentioned that your units appear to work and you can hear them running but the steering wheel doesn't move. There is a known fault that causes this. The drive is from a 12volt dc motor via a reduction pulley system which uses toothed belts - two of them - the smaller of the belts, which is the motor drive belt, comes off the pulleys. This is caused by the motor pulley not being as tight on the motor shaft as it needs to be. The pulley works along the motor shaft and the belt follows until it runs off the driven pulley. In some cases it walks back on to the pulley and the drive works for a while until it again runs off. When it is off it is still being driven by the motor and the belt teeth wear away against the driven pulley teeth so the belt becomes pretty much destroyed. In this case if the unit is opened the lower part is full of rubber dust and belt particles. The motor pulley can be realigned but it won't stay in position for long, it needs a more permanent fix. I hope this is useful info for someone. A bit more info is that the sportpilot plus is the same unit as a sportpilot with the exception of the motor. The plus uses a motor with ball bearing races whereas the lesser sportpilot motor uses plain bearings.
Now I've got an electronic board failure too which pretty much ensures my unit is scrap so if any of you folk have a working sportpilot for sale please contact me. Even one with the chewed belt problem would be fine.
Cheers for now.
Now I've got an electronic board failure too which pretty much ensures my unit is scrap so if any of you folk have a working sportpilot for sale please contact me. Even one with the chewed belt problem would be fine.
Cheers for now.
I've been meaning to post a follow-up since I reinstalled the Sportpilot. I was pretty sure that tightening those three screws (which were not tight) had removed much of the slop, but at that point I had not put it back together and reinstalled it.
Now that I have done so, I can say that around 75% of the slop is gone. My guess is that the remaining 25% is just a part of having this type of autopilot which fits into the wheel-attachment system. At any rate, it has gone from "Oh please, this is ridiculous!" to "Well, if I *try* to wobble the wheel back and forth I can find some slop, but it doesn't jump out at me." I can live with that.
One last note: Getting the "hub" back in to the unit was a bit of a trick, and while doing so I figured out that it was not actually necessary to remove it all (but I had no way of knowing that before I knew what the issue was). So, for future delvers: If you just take out the top half of the "hub" -- the part with the yellowed/white plastic spoked rim -- then once it's out you will be able to turn it over and see the screws that needed tightening (at least on my unit). What I didn't actually need to remove was the "whole" hub including the black plastic part beneath (see photos of all this on page 2 of the thread). It would have been easier to put back together if I had only removed the white part.
Sunbeam :hot
Now that I have done so, I can say that around 75% of the slop is gone. My guess is that the remaining 25% is just a part of having this type of autopilot which fits into the wheel-attachment system. At any rate, it has gone from "Oh please, this is ridiculous!" to "Well, if I *try* to wobble the wheel back and forth I can find some slop, but it doesn't jump out at me." I can live with that.
One last note: Getting the "hub" back in to the unit was a bit of a trick, and while doing so I figured out that it was not actually necessary to remove it all (but I had no way of knowing that before I knew what the issue was). So, for future delvers: If you just take out the top half of the "hub" -- the part with the yellowed/white plastic spoked rim -- then once it's out you will be able to turn it over and see the screws that needed tightening (at least on my unit). What I didn't actually need to remove was the "whole" hub including the black plastic part beneath (see photos of all this on page 2 of the thread). It would have been easier to put back together if I had only removed the white part.
Sunbeam :hot
I'm happy to report success!
JW, your "belt jumping" condition is exactly what was going on in our unit with regard to the motor sound but no wheel movement. The smaller belt had jumped off and it was being scraped on the edge of the circuit board. There was a bunch of belt dust in the bottom of the unit, but the teeth were ok. I think I caught it just in time.
Sunbeam, thanks to your post and photos (which I printed out for my repair) I was able to confirm that the problem was, indeed, the 3 set screws backed out on the brass ring. I only removed this part, not the black hub, and it was a pretty simple fix. I added a drop of locktite to the screws so I hope this will prevent further issues. The slop in the wheel is probably 90% gone, unless, like you said, I really put lots of pressure on it.
I fired it up while fishing on Sunday and it worked like a champ.
Soooo...thanks again for your great info! Tom, I guess you're outta luck. I'll leave it installed since it isn't an irritant any more!
Rick
JW, your "belt jumping" condition is exactly what was going on in our unit with regard to the motor sound but no wheel movement. The smaller belt had jumped off and it was being scraped on the edge of the circuit board. There was a bunch of belt dust in the bottom of the unit, but the teeth were ok. I think I caught it just in time.
Sunbeam, thanks to your post and photos (which I printed out for my repair) I was able to confirm that the problem was, indeed, the 3 set screws backed out on the brass ring. I only removed this part, not the black hub, and it was a pretty simple fix. I added a drop of locktite to the screws so I hope this will prevent further issues. The slop in the wheel is probably 90% gone, unless, like you said, I really put lots of pressure on it.
I fired it up while fishing on Sunday and it worked like a champ.
Soooo...thanks again for your great info! Tom, I guess you're outta luck. I'll leave it installed since it isn't an irritant any more!
Rick
416Rigby - It's great to hear that you were able to solve the same problem on your SP :thup
JW. - Thanks for your input on other potential SP issue(s). So far mine steers fine, but with an "obsolete" product it's good to have info like this for possible future reference.
BrentB - :lol:
Sunbeam :hot
JW. - Thanks for your input on other potential SP issue(s). So far mine steers fine, but with an "obsolete" product it's good to have info like this for possible future reference.
BrentB - :lol:
Sunbeam :hot
I just had a reason to come back and look at something in this thread (removing wheel for non-autopilot reason, was wondering if I had mentioned the size of the wheel nut), and I see that all of the photo links are broken. This is because "back in the day" I did not realize that rearranging my albums after linking to photos would break the links.
So, if anyone reads this and wishes they could see the images, they are all in my Sportpilot sub-album, which is at this link:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php
Sunbeam
So, if anyone reads this and wishes they could see the images, they are all in my Sportpilot sub-album, which is at this link:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php
Sunbeam