Question about poss. "foreign matter" in fuel tank

S

Sunbeam

Active member
Hi folks,

I have a question about something that just happened and I don't know if it's a big problem or not.

When I fuel, I always have a small piece of "fuel diaper" that I set next to the filler opening - just in case, and to wipe off the nozzle before taking it out, or etc. Well, the last batch of fuel diapers I bought have a different "texture" than the ones I've had before, and I found that they tend to shed bits of fluff. I have been very careful, but today, just as I had finished fueling and was moving the nozzle out of the filler, I'm about 80% sure a small piece of fuel diaper "fluff" went down into the filler :amgry I did get one small piece out, but I think another may have stayed in there. I fished around in the filler hose with a piece of seizing wire I had made a "hook" on the end of (in case it had stuck to the bend in the filler hose and not gone all the way down), but no luck getting anything out. Naturally it had to be the starboard side tank with the lesser bend in the hose.

Anyway, here is my question: Presuming a piece of "fluff" DID get into my tank, will it end up causing a problem? I don't think it's large enough to block a screen on the end of the pickup tube (if there is one... I kind of hope not as I don't really like them there but I don't know for sure how Moeller does them), but if it did get into the fuel lines, would the external Racor filter pick it up and then it would be gone after I change the filter (which I will do after this trip)? Or is it something where I should take my fuel system apart until I find it (if it is indeed there). I hope not, of course, but don't want to worry about something "looming" either. The rest of "those" fuel diapers are going in the garbage! (Most that I've had are not like that at all and don't "shed.")

If it were you, would you keep on running on this tank? (I had purposely used up all the fuel in the other tank preparatory to getting off the lake, at which time I put in stabilized non-ethanol fuel for storage time.) I really don't know if it's

a)A crisis and I should stop right now and not run.

b)Nothing to worry about (but of course change Racor after this trip).

c)Somewhat independent of above, if it does not show up in (on?) the Racor, should I be tearing the fuel system apart until I find it?

If the piece did go down in there, it's about the size of a small grain of rice, although "fluff shaped," not rice shaped.

Thanks,
Sunbeam
 
PS: Since there are about 12 open fuel dock slips, and no-one here but me, I'm going to hang here for a few minutes to see if anyone chips in with their thoughts. (Just in case I should not run the engine from this tank.) I will need to leave in a bit, but will give it a few minutes at least.

Thanks,
Sunbeam
 
Nothing to worry about-period. If it is picked up, the racor will capture it & as the size you decribed not require early change of the filter.

Jay
 
Thanks, Jay! I really had no idea if this was a total crisis or nothing to worry about or somewhere in between. I had a totally "sinking" feeling when I saw it fall down in there! Made me think of the dreaded "something falling into the engine oil filler cap on my road vehicle" scenario. Of course that's dropping right into the engine, so clearly a horrible thing (and thank goodness I haven't done that).

Except for kayaking and canoeing - and the days of my youth in small skiffs and rowboats - I realized that this trip is my first time out solo (!). A combination of trepidation, satisfaction, fun, learning experiences (ahem), list-making, daydreaming (when not underway), occasional terror, good times, etc. :lol: I sure do love the boat! :thup

Haven't seen any other C-Dorys, although my eyes are peeled.

Thanks again,
Sunbeam
 
BrentB":1hfc5ksr said:
Take a piece and place in a glass jar with lid and observe over time
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting this because you are wondering if it would dissolve and "go away." My guess would be no because fuel diapers are meant to absorb fuel and hold it. I've seen "pigs" made of the same material (i.e. shaped like a fender instead of like a sheet of paper) sitting in fuel-soaked bilges (not on my boat!) for months/years and they don't dissolve, so my guess would be it wouldn't. Not that I couldn't try it for kicks. Heck, maybe it's made of some "knock off" material is why it sheds to begin with (I bought these at a Yamaha dealer, too, not some discount place). So I may try it when I get back to land and have jars and surfaces that don't roll around. I always enjoy a good experiment :D
 
I am with Jay. Don't worry about it. If it was indeed the size of a grain of rice, it will likely be in the filter when you change it. For reference, you likely have a 10-micron filter in your Racor:

particle-size-lrg.jpg


I don't think a grain of rice will have any chance of getting through there.

Running a boat by yourself is by far *THE BEST* way to learn everything there is to know about it. You will see things you would normally miss, you will hear every little nuanced change in sound and investigate it, you will learn EVERYTHING about that boat.

When I sold my Sundowner 32 Tug to a very busy gentleman from up North, we were in a boat yard finishing up some details and the old salt yard hand overheard him talking about getting a truck scheduled to pick up the boat.

He came over and said (in the thickest North Carolina accent you can imagine), "....boats wernt made to go on no truck, boats were made to go in the water."

The yard hand and I told him he should take 2 weeks out of his busy schedule, as a vacation, and deliver the boat himself up to Boston on the ICW. The initial shock on his face at this suggestion was priceless (he'd previously only owned an 18ft runabout on a lake). I assured him that he could call me any time along the way, 24/7, and once he arrived he would know every last thing about that boat that he ever wanted to know.

Finally (after a 45min 'discussion') he relented and committed to do it (kudos to him!). He went from trepidation to excited over the next few days.

Anyway, when he got the boat home he called and thanked me (and the yard guy) profusely and said that was the best decision he had ever made in his life as well as the best vacation he'd had in over 40 years.

Have fun out there! I'm green...... :cry :cry
 
Ray":1zudrk1e said:
I am with Jay. Don't worry about it. If it was indeed the size of a grain of rice, it will likely be in the filter when you change it. For reference, you likely have a 10-micron filter in your Racor:

particle-size-lrg.jpg


I don't think a grain of rice will have any chance of getting through there.

Running a boat by yourself is by far *THE BEST* way to learn everything there is to know about it. You will see things you would normally miss, you will hear every little nuanced change in sound and investigate it, you will learn EVERYTHING about that boat.

When I sold my Sundowner 32 Tug to a very busy gentleman from up North, we were in a boat yard finishing up some details and the old salt yard hand overheard him talking about getting a truck scheduled to pick up the boat.

He came over and said (in the thickest North Carolina accent you can imagine), "....boats wernt made to go on no truck, boats were made to go in the water."

The yard hand and I told him he should take 2 weeks out of his busy schedule, as a vacation, and deliver the boat himself up to Boston on the ICW. The initial shock on his face at this suggestion was priceless (he'd previously only owned an 18ft runabout on a lake). I assured him that he could call me any time along the way, 24/7, and once he arrived he would know every last thing about that boat that he ever wanted to know.

Finally (after a 45min 'discussion') he relented and committed to do it (kudos to him!). He went from trepidation to excited over the next few days.

Anyway, when he got the boat home he called and thanked me (and the yard guy) profusely and said that was the best decision he had ever made in his life as well as the best vacation he'd had in over 40 years.

Have fun out there! I'm green...... :cry :cry
Click to expand...

nice illustration
We use micrometers (um) instead of microns and measure down 1 um using a ocular micrometer or digital camera size scale
 
Sunbeam":wnvrz7ie said:
Thanks, Jay! I really had no idea if this was a total crisis or nothing to worry about or somewhere in between. I had a totally "sinking" feeling when I saw it fall down in there! Made me think of the dreaded "something falling into the engine oil filler cap on my road vehicle" scenario. Of course that's dropping right into the engine, so clearly a horrible thing (and thank goodness I haven't done that).

Except for kayaking and canoeing - and the days of my youth in small skiffs and rowboats - I realized that this trip is my first time out solo (!). A combination of trepidation, satisfaction, fun, learning experiences (ahem), list-making, daydreaming (when not underway), occasional terror, good times, etc. :lol: I sure do love the boat! :thup

Haven't seen any other C-Dorys, although my eyes are peeled.

Thanks again,
Sunbeam
Click to expand...
Keeping such foreign particles or water reaching from the fuel tank to the motor is the reason for having the Racor filter in line. I imagine without it your sinking feeling when you watched it go into the inlet would have had a much more difficult time rising to Roger's "Be Happy" link, though I think the engine inline filter would have caught anyway.

Going solo is great way to experience boating or other means of adventuring. It gives one a complete freedom that's hard to experience any other way. Many just can't do it & others like me prefer it or as further defined in my case, do for the most part prefer being by myself except for the company of JoLee. I've spent many wonderful days & nights in the wilderness alone & I'm pretty much convinced for those who have done likewise, most will say rather than a dog its a campfire that is man's best friend. Since a fire on a boat doesn't work out so well, I've thought that's why so many dogs are on them.

I'm happy to see you have enjoyed this Lake Powell solo cruise.

Jay
 
I had one those brown sealing pieces from a bottle of Yamaha ring free go into one of our fuel tanks. I thought of the worst scenario of it getting sucked up and clogging the fuel pickup up in the elbow before even getting to the fuel filter. It's been a couple years no problems yet. I actually just stopped worrying about it. We just did a week long 400 mile cruise no worries. I don't like spilling gas so bought two of the fuel whistles and installed them on each of the vent lines. Pretty easy to do and when the whistle stops you shut off the fuel nozzle. I bought them from Defender and have been using them for about three years. No problems so far and no fuel spills.
D.D.
 
My problem is that if I don't watch the tank filling I end up with a shot of gas coming out of the filler hole when the tank gets near full even though the nozzle kicks off automatically. Happens when I fill manually as well unless I am very careful.
 
ssobol":1kws9njd said:
My problem is that if I don't watch the tank filling I end up with a shot of gas coming out of the filler hole when the tank gets near full even though the nozzle kicks off automatically. Happens when I fill manually as well unless I am very careful.
Click to expand...
I add stabilizer to the tank using a small plastic cup, maybe 4 oz or so, before filling. Then position the cup under the vent while filling. Typically, a couple ounces of fuel, maximum, sloshes out into the cup. I put the overflow into the tank and call it good. A quick wipe of the cup with a rag cleans it up for the next fill.
 
Hi all,

What a great set of comments to read today. Ray, the illustration is great, thanks. I do have the 10 micron filter (Racor S3240) (plus the internal Yamaha one).

Ray and Jay: I think you're right about soloing. I have mostly double-handed (on anything larger than a kayak or skiff), and although when underway offshore it is pretty much like shifts of single-handing (watches) it's still not the same - plus there are always tasks that "the other person" does, it seems (even if you try to make sure everyone knows how to do everything). Or things that you just naturally do using two people if you can (such as anchoring) because why wouldn't you.

Actually one of the reasons I got the C-Dory has to do with that. Back in the day, I used to whitewater kayak, and that was always done in your own boat but with a group of folks (in their own boats). Always seemed like the perfect combination to me. (Not that I mind company on the 22 either.) Reading C-Brats and Bill and El's web pages before buying, I could that the C-Dory gang is one that gets out and does things, and goes all over the place. Now I just need to make it to a few (more) CBGT (have been to two at Powell, but not this year).

Will-C: Oh geez, I always do worry about those foil top thingies, and try to really get them all off of the container before putting anything in, but I can see how that could have happened. Now my possible "fluff" doesn't seem so bad (at least it would not be likely to get stuck in an elbow).

Brent: I'm going to try the dissolve experiment when I get back ashore, because I wonder what this fuel diaper is made of - my other ones have never acted so "cottony" and shed like this. It shouldn't dissolve, but let's find out!

On the possible spilling: For me it isn't the vents, but rather that if I get going too fast - especially toward the end (full), it will come back out the fill. Now, that hasn't happened since the first or second time, when I just started pumping it in like it was a car (now I go much slower), but I just like to have a fuel diaper to hand on principle. In addition to going more slowly, I also now point the curve of the nozzle aft, to best match the fuel hose. If I were re-doing my fill hoses again (or ever do), I think I would make a small "tunnel" in the port lazarette, as the way it is built that lazarette causes the port side filler hose to take a dog leg (so that one has to go slower).

Another thing I noticed (because I can see my fuel tanks right where the filler goes in) is that the fuel really "turbulates" as it goes in. Especially as the tank gets full, the new fuel hits the surface and really gets moving around. I think that is what makes it come back out the filler hole if one does not slow down -- at least on my boat.

I installed the Attwood fuel vents that are like mini dorades inside - I don't know if that helps it not come out the vent, or if it's just because I fill slowly now. At any rate, no more "cottony" fuel diapers for me. I will be sure not to buy any of those again (it's quite obvious just by looking at them).

Speaking of being able to see the tank: When I put in my new tanks, they are the 23-gallon ones used currently on the 22's, and they are flush with (inset slightly) the splashwell. So I planned to install the gelcoated fiberglass covers with the viewing slots (in 2002 the as-built tanks came a bit forward of the splashwell, so they didn't have that style covers). Well I got them all cut and mostly set up, but hadn't installed them (the covers), so I just made some navy canvas panels (Wal-mart "canvas") and hung them on dowels that are held up with zip ties. I just wanted to keep the UV off the tanks. As it turns out they are so darned handy that I might just make nicer ones. I find it convenient to just be able to flip one up when I'm filling (that's how I know the fuel "turbulates" right under the filler neck as it goes in), and just to be able to easily access the area above the tanks. The gelcoated panels do look good, but then these panels don't look bad either, and they aren't even nice Sunbrella (plus I have a cooler and other stuff in front of them anyway). At any rate, the jury is out on the gelcoated panels for now.

Thanks again for the replies everyone :thup
 
The problem I ran into was check valve clogging at the tank. I had removed the fuel sensors and found the PO had used regular silicone sealer at some point in the past. So when I removed the sensor on each tank unknown to me some of the clear silicone dropped into the tanks.

Later, of course, I was out running around when the motor stopped. I noticed the bulb was flat but LUCKILY I had the tools on board to remove the check value an clear the blockage (happened on both tanks).

I gotta admit, though, I was a bit confused until I noticed the flat bulb. Just something to keep in mind.
 
cmetzenberg":1ohvwftn said:
ssobol":1ohvwftn said:
My problem is that if I don't watch the tank filling I end up with a shot of gas coming out of the filler hole when the tank gets near full even though the nozzle kicks off automatically. Happens when I fill manually as well unless I am very careful.
Click to expand...

http://www.tgmmarine.com/nospills/pages/product001.html

for those who are too lazy to hold up a pad under the vent (people such as myself)
Click to expand...

In my case the fuel does not come out the vent. It fountains out of the filler neck. Nothing comes out of the vent. The vents seem to be working because I don't get any vacuum locks in the tank as it empties.

This can occur whether I fill and an auto gas station or a fuel dock, so it is not likely due to the pump.
 
Take a look at your vent lines, they make inline devices that stop the gas from coming out of the vent while filling.
You may have one of these in your vent lines.

Bill Kelleher


"In my case the fuel does not come out the vent. It fountains out of the filler neck. Nothing comes out of the vent. The vents seem to be working because I don't get any vacuum locks in the tank as it empties.

This can occur whether I fill and an auto gas station or a fuel dock, so it is not likely due to the pump.[/quote]
 
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