I agree absolutely with edwardf. This was an ill-conceived thread from the start for a site that brings together people from diverse backgrounds and philosophies on the basis of their interest in all things C-Dory. I wish I had spoken up as the fourth message in the thread when I explained my opinion to my wife at about 10:15 AM on the 4th as she was prodding me to get in on the action. But I'm sure it wouldn't have changed much. Too bad, this is a great site as long as people understand that politics and religion have nothing to do with boats. As I withdraw from the site, I would say that Mike's original message was not all that simple and that its meaning was a very clear -- even if friendly -- challenge that is typically lobbed from right to left. Mildly irritating -- but tolerable. We could probably enjoy a beer together. Feigning the innocence of the message-- also irritating but not a deal breaker. But I bought my boat to relax -- not get angry, and I've read and re-read and re-read oldgrowth's remark about free expression even for "those that want to destroy this great country" and I have to admit I'm feeling the anger. I'm sure others are too and that is why I know I should not belong to this site. They are keeping their mouths shut -- as I should -- if I wanted to keep the peace--if I wanted to stay-- but I don't. Tyboo, work your magic and disappear me. I don't promise not to lurk from time to time -- or even more -- but I don't need this ****. I'm not sure who really does.
Nan-C, take a step back, take a deep breath and don't let them get you down. I share a similar affliction to you in that being quite doesn't always seem the right thing to do.
Those who feel compelled to share their political affiliations and positions in their signatures and posts would do well to remember that this is a forum for ALL aficionados of C-Dory boats and an individuals' politics (yours,mine or theirs) are of absolutely ZERO interest to the rest of us.
We gather here to share a common obsession with C-Dory boats, to enjoy the pictures, the technical expertise offered by many and the boating stories.
We appear to be an inclusive community in spite of what I'm quite sure are substantial political differences, all should respect that and forgo the unneeded, unwanted,unappreciated and oddly misplaced political blather.
There is more than enough of that to be had elsewhere. Lets keep this about C-Dory boats, what say ye?
Those who feel compelled to share their political affiliations and positions in their signatures and posts would do well to remember that this is a forum for ALL aficionados of C-Dory boats and an individuals' politics (yours,mine or theirs) are of absolutely ZERO interest to the rest of us.
We gather here to share a common obsession with C-Dory boats, to enjoy the pictures, the technical expertise offered by many and the boating stories.
We appear to be an inclusive community in spite of what I'm quite sure are substantial political differences, all should respect that and forgo the unneeded, unwanted,unappreciated and oddly misplaced political blather.
There is more than enough of that to be had elsewhere. Lets keep this about C-Dory boats, what say ye?
A
Anonymous
Guest
Well, I was thinking an administrator would chime in a couple post's ago but their probably out enjoying the boat.
Therefore I feel compelled to continue what seems to have turned into some sort of political battle.
Being a thinker, on the 4th I was mulling over what I'm thankful for and what I enjoy about our great country and decided to open the thread in a polite manner and see what others had to offer first.
Some of you had personal stories of a thankful nature, some of you had political statements to make, some of you got mad and some of you saw it for what it was and joined the "Happy Birthday America" camp.
Using the sheep and sweater analogy let me show you where I'm at on this matter.
Fat sheep, Thin sheep, Old sheep etc all contribute fibers that make up that nice sweater you like so much. On their own, some of those sheep would irritate you if you were around them for long, some would always be butting the others around, some would always be wandering off etc. But when you decided on that sweater in the store you chose it for the fabric or its style, color etc. So it is with our country, our national fabric is made up of numerous contributors of vastly different origins. Like it or not, that is what made America and makes her Great! The post is about the sweater not the sheep!!!
Having some first hand experience (Viet Nam) in this matter of freedom, I fully understand what it takes to maintain and how valuable it is and am very proud AND thankful to be an American living in America.
There are countless situations in our country that I would like to help fix on any given day but those situations or my outlook on them does not change the greatness of the United States. We are afforded a perspective and how we choose to use it is up to us. Focus on the negative garbage or look for some flowers, It's up to you.
P.S as to the signature, each of us has one, they should all be unique and yes I am equally proud of my Republican affiliation but not so blind as to not allow others as well. If that little bit of information got you so worked up it's a good thing I didn't include " Church going, Husband of one Wife" (for over 30 years) or any other personal tidbits that gave you insight into "My Fabric".
To those of you who are as disappointed as I am about the way this thing went, I apologize.
Thanks, Mike
Therefore I feel compelled to continue what seems to have turned into some sort of political battle.
Being a thinker, on the 4th I was mulling over what I'm thankful for and what I enjoy about our great country and decided to open the thread in a polite manner and see what others had to offer first.
Some of you had personal stories of a thankful nature, some of you had political statements to make, some of you got mad and some of you saw it for what it was and joined the "Happy Birthday America" camp.
Using the sheep and sweater analogy let me show you where I'm at on this matter.
Fat sheep, Thin sheep, Old sheep etc all contribute fibers that make up that nice sweater you like so much. On their own, some of those sheep would irritate you if you were around them for long, some would always be butting the others around, some would always be wandering off etc. But when you decided on that sweater in the store you chose it for the fabric or its style, color etc. So it is with our country, our national fabric is made up of numerous contributors of vastly different origins. Like it or not, that is what made America and makes her Great! The post is about the sweater not the sheep!!!
Having some first hand experience (Viet Nam) in this matter of freedom, I fully understand what it takes to maintain and how valuable it is and am very proud AND thankful to be an American living in America.
There are countless situations in our country that I would like to help fix on any given day but those situations or my outlook on them does not change the greatness of the United States. We are afforded a perspective and how we choose to use it is up to us. Focus on the negative garbage or look for some flowers, It's up to you.
P.S as to the signature, each of us has one, they should all be unique and yes I am equally proud of my Republican affiliation but not so blind as to not allow others as well. If that little bit of information got you so worked up it's a good thing I didn't include " Church going, Husband of one Wife" (for over 30 years) or any other personal tidbits that gave you insight into "My Fabric".
To those of you who are as disappointed as I am about the way this thing went, I apologize.
Thanks, Mike
And a moderator rears his ugly, white head for just a moment.
Good thread, and I like it. I'm happy that we celebrate the birth of our nation and understand the various pressures that develop. The drift to politics has happened before and will happen again. And then it goes away.
Bottom line, this is a C-Dory site. If in doubt, look at our masthead. We have over 2,000 "members" plus many others who just lurk. Conflicting political views are inevitable, and there are many other sites where confrontational positions are normal and welcome.
I don't speak for Bill or Mike, and my expressed view is my personal one. YMMV. My personal views, based on unpleasant experiences starting in WWII and ending with Nam, would stir the pot. I don't express them here!!
Crabs are calling, so I'm outa here! Y'all simmer down and have fun!
Dusty
Good thread, and I like it. I'm happy that we celebrate the birth of our nation and understand the various pressures that develop. The drift to politics has happened before and will happen again. And then it goes away.
Bottom line, this is a C-Dory site. If in doubt, look at our masthead. We have over 2,000 "members" plus many others who just lurk. Conflicting political views are inevitable, and there are many other sites where confrontational positions are normal and welcome.
I don't speak for Bill or Mike, and my expressed view is my personal one. YMMV. My personal views, based on unpleasant experiences starting in WWII and ending with Nam, would stir the pot. I don't express them here!!
Crabs are calling, so I'm outa here! Y'all simmer down and have fun!
Dusty
Jeff Brigner
New member
Cathy & I enjoyed the fourth on Lake Martin and watched eagles fly over, fish jump and fire works go off at night.
Laus Deo for this great nation !! :thup
Laus Deo for this great nation !! :thup
Simple solution to those who do not like this or any other thread: don't read it. To make it easier, it is being moved to the That's Life forum so if someone doesn't want to even see it they have simply to browse without logging in.
I would not have been following it myself except for the numerous messages I got asking for something to be done about it. After considerable thought I have decided to do nothing. My personal threshold for offense that requires deleting a post or topic is for it to contain something my kids should not be subjected to. Frankly, I think my kids could make some pretty adult contributions to this discussion.
If someone truly wishes to be removed from the member roster due to something like this I will unhappily oblige, but it seems to me it is worth some reconsidering before we get to that.
I would not have been following it myself except for the numerous messages I got asking for something to be done about it. After considerable thought I have decided to do nothing. My personal threshold for offense that requires deleting a post or topic is for it to contain something my kids should not be subjected to. Frankly, I think my kids could make some pretty adult contributions to this discussion.
If someone truly wishes to be removed from the member roster due to something like this I will unhappily oblige, but it seems to me it is worth some reconsidering before we get to that.
I've been following this thread since day one, so yes - a "moderator" has been aware of it. Like my fellow keepers of the peace (Dusty and TyBoo), I've seen nothing in it that is surprising, and have seen nothing in it that strikes me as worthy of anything more drastic than moving the thread as Mike did.
Truth be told, I enjoy threads like these. Not for some Jerry Springer-esque affliction I might have with watching a meltdown. No...it's because I know the eventual outcome is one of cool heads prevailing, and I enjoy watching the tone of the topic be mellowed by wordsmiths with much more wisdom in their heads than me.
I saw the issue building, I knew it would get a little ugly, and I chose to learn from those skilled at bringing reason and calm back to the group. Just as they always do.
That's the only wisdom I feel qualified to share.
eace:
Truth be told, I enjoy threads like these. Not for some Jerry Springer-esque affliction I might have with watching a meltdown. No...it's because I know the eventual outcome is one of cool heads prevailing, and I enjoy watching the tone of the topic be mellowed by wordsmiths with much more wisdom in their heads than me.
I saw the issue building, I knew it would get a little ugly, and I chose to learn from those skilled at bringing reason and calm back to the group. Just as they always do.
That's the only wisdom I feel qualified to share.
eace:Nan-C – I do not know you, so I do not know if the shoe fits you.
I did not indicate that any one ideology was anti American.
I know Roger of Sea DNA and I know he is a good person and American. He and I differ politically but that does not mean I think he wants to destroy this country. He wants to see changes in the direction the country is going and so do I.
We do not necessarily agree on the same changes, but that is what makes this country great. We can express our opinions openly and freely, including those that want to destroy this great country. If you do not believe there are people out there (both on the extreme right and on extreme left) that want to destroy this great country, then you are naive. I certainly hope that is the case and you are not one that wants to destroy America.
I have a lot of respect for Roger and I enjoy our discussion on this site. We have been doing this for some time. You are free to read our discussions and join in whenever you want to, but don’t read hidden messages in them. He and I generally say what we mean without hidden meanings and please feel free to challenge any thing I say.
________
Dave
I did not indicate that any one ideology was anti American.
I know Roger of Sea DNA and I know he is a good person and American. He and I differ politically but that does not mean I think he wants to destroy this country. He wants to see changes in the direction the country is going and so do I.
We do not necessarily agree on the same changes, but that is what makes this country great. We can express our opinions openly and freely, including those that want to destroy this great country. If you do not believe there are people out there (both on the extreme right and on extreme left) that want to destroy this great country, then you are naive. I certainly hope that is the case and you are not one that wants to destroy America.
I have a lot of respect for Roger and I enjoy our discussion on this site. We have been doing this for some time. You are free to read our discussions and join in whenever you want to, but don’t read hidden messages in them. He and I generally say what we mean without hidden meanings and please feel free to challenge any thing I say.
________
Dave
I agree with DaNag... this was a good thread. Only in America can we have expressed our views and personal feelings without government intervention or threatened by censorship. On the otherhand we know our emails are scanned by government agencies listening for perceived threats from those factions that would wish to do us harm. Remember the Patriot Act?
We all know there are factions (political and or religious) out there whose members would readily die if it could have a chance of crushing the United States and our freedoms. These factions are not new, however, after 9-11 it demonstrated how vulnerable we really are.
There are many things that on the surface I take issue with in government policy, however, I know for a fact I do not have all the information that our elected policy makers have when they have to make the tough calls. My opinion is based on limited knowledge of the whole picture.
One thing for sure, though not perfect, America stands head and shoulders above any country that I would want to call home. I am proud to be an American even with its perceived faults. God bless our troops and their families for they put it all on the line for our freedoms and safety in our land. Above all else support the troops and their families.
Respectfully submitted.... Butch
PS... I too love boats!
We all know there are factions (political and or religious) out there whose members would readily die if it could have a chance of crushing the United States and our freedoms. These factions are not new, however, after 9-11 it demonstrated how vulnerable we really are.
There are many things that on the surface I take issue with in government policy, however, I know for a fact I do not have all the information that our elected policy makers have when they have to make the tough calls. My opinion is based on limited knowledge of the whole picture.
One thing for sure, though not perfect, America stands head and shoulders above any country that I would want to call home. I am proud to be an American even with its perceived faults. God bless our troops and their families for they put it all on the line for our freedoms and safety in our land. Above all else support the troops and their families.
Respectfully submitted.... Butch
PS... I too love boats!
Bill Uffelman
New member
We're boatless in Bethany Beach DE for another week.
Went to the 4th of July parade Wednesday -- fire trucks, politicos, marching bands, beauty queens and anyone who wante to walk the parade route -- little kids on decorated trikes, Shriners on tiny choppers and go carts, you name it. Kids in front of us were selling lemonade and cup cakes with white frosting and red and blue spinkles.
Tonight the town band was on the board walk and closed with God Bless America for all to sing.
Small town hokey but it is America -- even caught a DC lobbyist on his cell plotting and scheming ( I used to be one of them), wouldn't trade it for anything!
Our son and 3 grandkids live in London wherehe trades oil-- two years ago they blew up his tube station -- just wonder when someone will try it here.
Bill Uffelman
Sgt (6243) USMC 66 - 70 Chu Lai RVN 68-89
JAG CPT (Retired) USAR/ARNG1970 - 1988
Get retired pay starting Monday when I turn 60!
Went to the 4th of July parade Wednesday -- fire trucks, politicos, marching bands, beauty queens and anyone who wante to walk the parade route -- little kids on decorated trikes, Shriners on tiny choppers and go carts, you name it. Kids in front of us were selling lemonade and cup cakes with white frosting and red and blue spinkles.
Tonight the town band was on the board walk and closed with God Bless America for all to sing.
Small town hokey but it is America -- even caught a DC lobbyist on his cell plotting and scheming ( I used to be one of them), wouldn't trade it for anything!
Our son and 3 grandkids live in London wherehe trades oil-- two years ago they blew up his tube station -- just wonder when someone will try it here.
Bill Uffelman
Sgt (6243) USMC 66 - 70 Chu Lai RVN 68-89
JAG CPT (Retired) USAR/ARNG1970 - 1988
Get retired pay starting Monday when I turn 60!
A
Anonymous
Guest
As this thread seems to be winding down, I wanted to get in here once more and thank everyone for their contributions. My objective was met in that I wanted to offer some food for thought and hopefully cause you to reflect, and many of you responded with great zeal!
In part, I agree with something each of you had to say and I am convinced that as a whole we have not lost that spark of devotion to a system of government we hold dear.
Headed to Seward again this time home, hoping to get into some Silvers.
Mike
In part, I agree with something each of you had to say and I am convinced that as a whole we have not lost that spark of devotion to a system of government we hold dear.
Headed to Seward again this time home, hoping to get into some Silvers.
Mike
Naw!
Dusty doesn't have anything to do with running the site. Da Nerd and buddy Mike are where the buck stops. Dusty just shoots off his mouth when something jiggles his rocker :roll:
And besides, my typing fingers are sore from cleaning and cooking 42 crabs for our family crab feed. (Don't tell Pat)
I'll talk about yesterday's shrimping later, as if anyone cares.
Dusty
Dusty doesn't have anything to do with running the site. Da Nerd and buddy Mike are where the buck stops. Dusty just shoots off his mouth when something jiggles his rocker :roll:
And besides, my typing fingers are sore from cleaning and cooking 42 crabs for our family crab feed. (Don't tell Pat)
I'll talk about yesterday's shrimping later, as if anyone cares.
Dusty
I love my son. There have been times that he made me very proud and happy to claim him as my own. There have been other times that he did something that was disappointing, embarrassing and, in my opinion (and that of many others) just plain wrong. At those times, I’m not proud at all, but I still love him. When he does something wrong, I do my best to explain why I think what he did was wrong, what I think he should have done and how he should handle a similar situation in the future. Sometimes, my criticism is well received, sometimes, I’m perceived as the “enemy”. But still I love him none-the-less and still I try to get him to do what I think is best.
Now, if you replace “son” with “country” and “he /him” with “it” in the above, you’ll understand how I feel about the USA. I knew that I’d start a bit of a firestorm with my initial comments but it’s how I feel right now – not too proud. It was a simple question and I answered it in a simple way. But to be clear (and as Oldgrowth Dave pointed out – thanks Dave), being disappointed in a current path is quite a bit different from not being a patriotic person who love’s his country. In fact, if I didn’t love this country, I’d keep my mouth shut and/or go someplace else. My love makes me want to make things change in the ways that I think would make things better. Not every one is going to agree on what is the best path, but I can guarantee we have a better chance of finding a good one when we all talk about the options and when debate is not cut-off.
I also must admit that had it not be for the “voting Republican” part of Mike’s signature, I probably would have kept my mouth shut. But sometimes I feel a need to provide the counter balance to a given post or set of ideas and I kind of see that signature as a misplaced political ad (Mike, I really do enjoy most of your boating related posts). One of the things that has really bothered me during the past few years is the increasing use by the current administration of phrases such as “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” and (if you disagree with present policy) “you want the terrorists to win”. That kind of talk:
1) Does a disservice to many thinking people who believe that there is a different way to do things.
2) Is really insulting to those with different ideas (e.g. argue the idea but don’t insult my patriotism – that’s a low blow).
3) Cuts off legitimate debate that might help put the country on a better course.
4) Continues to divide the country
I expect more from all of my leaders (dems. and republicans alike). Finally, I agree that this site is better off when we talk predominately about boats and boating. I’ll try to refrain more in the future.
Now Dusty - that's a guy we all can be proud of. Both for what he's done for our country and for how he continues to out fish, out crab and out shrimp all of us youngsters (and most "oldsters" too)! :thup
Now, if you replace “son” with “country” and “he /him” with “it” in the above, you’ll understand how I feel about the USA. I knew that I’d start a bit of a firestorm with my initial comments but it’s how I feel right now – not too proud. It was a simple question and I answered it in a simple way. But to be clear (and as Oldgrowth Dave pointed out – thanks Dave), being disappointed in a current path is quite a bit different from not being a patriotic person who love’s his country. In fact, if I didn’t love this country, I’d keep my mouth shut and/or go someplace else. My love makes me want to make things change in the ways that I think would make things better. Not every one is going to agree on what is the best path, but I can guarantee we have a better chance of finding a good one when we all talk about the options and when debate is not cut-off.
I also must admit that had it not be for the “voting Republican” part of Mike’s signature, I probably would have kept my mouth shut. But sometimes I feel a need to provide the counter balance to a given post or set of ideas and I kind of see that signature as a misplaced political ad (Mike, I really do enjoy most of your boating related posts). One of the things that has really bothered me during the past few years is the increasing use by the current administration of phrases such as “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” and (if you disagree with present policy) “you want the terrorists to win”. That kind of talk:
1) Does a disservice to many thinking people who believe that there is a different way to do things.
2) Is really insulting to those with different ideas (e.g. argue the idea but don’t insult my patriotism – that’s a low blow).
3) Cuts off legitimate debate that might help put the country on a better course.
4) Continues to divide the country
I expect more from all of my leaders (dems. and republicans alike). Finally, I agree that this site is better off when we talk predominately about boats and boating. I’ll try to refrain more in the future.
Now Dusty - that's a guy we all can be proud of. Both for what he's done for our country and for how he continues to out fish, out crab and out shrimp all of us youngsters (and most "oldsters" too)! :thup
Very well stated, Roger --
I'd give you some numbers in area 6 (still legal), but I'd have to shoot you. :lol:
Would you believe 4 pots, 4 limits, one pull?? Next time you get up this way we can discuss this over a fish lunch! De-heading 320 shrimp sure makes old arthritic fingers ache!
Dusty
I'd give you some numbers in area 6 (still legal), but I'd have to shoot you. :lol:
Would you believe 4 pots, 4 limits, one pull?? Next time you get up this way we can discuss this over a fish lunch! De-heading 320 shrimp sure makes old arthritic fingers ache!
Dusty