Power a C-Dory 26 Venture

F

Foggy

New member
First, it is gonna be twins. The dilemma is 'which' twins. Twin Honda 90s weigh 720 lbs (a little less than Yamahas).

Why not twin Evinrude E-Tec 115s which weigh 750 lbs?
* Mfg says 200 hp max (this could be the correct answer...) Maybe the CD transom cannot handle more?
* Just a few lbs more than the Hondas...
* More power to overcome xtra drag of 2nd engine and xtra weight...
* Bigger engines work less at normal cruising speed --> more MPG (?)...
* More speed if/when you need it...

Aye. Any thoughts?
 
Foggy":39r2rt6o said:
First, it is gonna be twins. The dilemma is 'which' twins. Twin Honda 90s weigh 720 lbs (a little less than Yamahas).

Why not twin Evinrude E-Tec 115s which weigh 750 lbs?
* Mfg says 200 hp max (this could be the correct answer...) Maybe the CD transom cannot handle more?
* Just a few lbs more than the Hondas...
* More power to overcome xtra drag of 2nd engine and xtra weight...
* Bigger engines work less at normal cruising speed --> more MPG (?)...
* More speed if/when you need it...

Aye. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

The question becomes, how much speed to you realistically need?

The proper answer at least in the automotive world. Just a little bit more please....
 
I'm not trying to turn a C-Dory into something it was not designed to do.

I'm looking to match, performance wise, in twins what can be obtained with a single lighter 200 hp Honda (590 lbs, 130 lbs less on the transom than 2 90s) which falls within the Mfg specs. I realize my question goes outside the specs.

Two smaller engines work harder than two larger engines given the same load. The advantages of this seems obvious.

Aye.
 
BrentB":8n8h4ppd said:
It depends on your needs.
Do you boat light or heavy?

Why not a single engine and add a kicker?
Click to expand...

It's been my experience all boats gain weight with age. I do not want a single and a kicker.

Aye.
 
Twin Suzuki 90's 348 each (in 25" shaft)= 695#?
I doubt that the extra horse power of 30 would make a bit of difference on the transom. If there was any question and NMI was doing custom work, have the transom layup increased in the areas of stress load. Have you talked to the factory?

However, these are semi dorys, not deep V's, or semi displacement boats. The practical upper limit of speed is about 30 knots in calm water.

Talke to David on Maibox 101 who has made 4 round trips San Francisco to Catalina and back over the last 4 years in his twenty six. He has twin 90's.

In any case none of these engines is "going to be working hard". You are limited by sea state as to what your speeds are gong to be--not like slamming a Deep V where you need that extra HP.

Any of the modern engines will outlast your ownership of the boat. They are all capable of the many of thousands of hours if properly cared for.
Honda has a bit more of issue with corrosion of the aluminum in salt water, but longevity with 4 stroke technology. Suzuki is favored by many. Yamaha 90's have been good engines. There are other choices. Look into the e-tec's carefully--consider that you still are using the oil injection system for lubrication.

Any combination will do well--if you want twins good. If you want a single--90% will say go with a kicker--and then there is not that weight differential.
 
I guess your definition of "performance" needs to be clarified. For some, performance is how fast one can get on plane and then how fast one can get the boat to go. For others it is which engine(s) will give the best fuel mileage on plane at say 13-16kts, for others it is which combination will allow cruising at that 13-16kts or at 20-23kts at the lowest RPM, or for still others performance means...etc.,etc. We have a 22 with two 2006 Honda 40's and 4 blade props. We cruise heavily loaded at 13-16kts-4200-4400RPM. I know the engines will reach factory max (5800RPM) but don't really know what top speed is because our weight load varies so much and we really don't care how fast the boat can go. I have been in C-Dorys and Ventures at 30+kts and the boats got pretty squirrely with a lack of smooth tracking. I would have been uncomfortable at those speeds, they seem beyond design limits.

So, if you will clarify what performance means to you, folks can give better advice (I think).
 
After reflecting on this and the responses, I feel my original question is valid.

With the absence of test data, which would answer my question, my gut tells me a CD 26 Venture out of the box with 2-3 passengers, full fuel and a single 200 hp, properly propped, will top out somewhere near 40 mph. Change the power to the heavier twin 90s on the same boat and load, the high end will change to 5 - 8 mph less. And, yes, it would be nice to know the gph at various engine rpms with each scenario.

I want to know, with 115 hp twins totaling a mere 30 hp over the Mfg recommended but a fairly significant 130 lbs less than the 90s, will the boat perform much differently than a single 200 hp?

By 'performance', I refer to the data in most engine/boat tests which I have been unable to locate for the C-Dory 26 Venture with different engine choices.

I do not have much interest in running a boat at top end anymore than I do my automobile.

Hope this clarifies.

Aye.
 
We ran a 25 cruiser more than 5000 nautical miles with older twin honda 90s and while they worked fine, I would have enjoyed the boat more with less weight back there. The older motors were closer to 850 lbs combined and put out more power than the boat really could use effectively most of the time. Perhaps the hull on the venture would take the excess better.

I would have loved to run twin Yamaha 70s which list a 25" shaft option now. I think they would be plenty of power and trim/handling of the boat would be much improved.

A good mechanic I trust actually said the Honda 75s would be a better fit than the 90s (even given the same weight) on that hull due to there running RPM range. Not sure I agree but it points to one important difference between these boats and most others.

Remember these boats cruise at relatively low speeds when compared to most and you can prop a smaller motor to handle that lower cruise just fine. They would work really hard to pull high speeds but that is not what the boat is for. You can plane the boat with just one Honda 90 so is it so much of a stretch to think that twin 60s or 70s would do the job well? Given your bias to twins of course....

Less weight = good thing

If I wanted higher ultimate top speeds and performance, I would toss a 200 single on there with no hesitation and that is coming from a guy who really likes twins.

Greg
 
I feel 'ya, Greg.

I am not interested in 'running' the 26 Venture at high speed. I am to 'know' what it do at the Mfg recommended maximum hp vs exceeding that by 30 hp with lighter twins than what most I've seen; Honda 90s.

I agree lighter is better. The Mfg must agree now showing the CD 26 Venture running with a single 175 hp E-Tech @ about 420 lbs.

Aye.
 
Foggy, consider the heritage of the Venture 26. The " Manufacture" got the molds for these hull by default via court order because of a non compete clause from the folks who sold the C dory line to the Reynolds. The Reynolds began to produce the boat as part of the C Dory line, with out any further engineering. The current builder, NMI is not the designer. The boat is not a 40 mph boat. Yes with a very light boat and 200 hp and a specific speed prop, would most likely get you close to 40 mph. If you want to go 40 mph (or 50 mph_ then the Tom Cat is the boat for speed. You can cruise all day in the mid 30's and hit close to 50.) But as you say you don't want speed...The best source of power and performance is an independent group such as Boat Test.com--and I don't believe that they tested the Venture 26. Boat Test (and similar) are always very optimistic, because they don't represent real life conditions. As noted these boats get heavier because most of us cruise them. Greg had twin 90's on a 25, we had a weak 130 on a 25. The ideal is probably the 150 to 175 on a C Dory 25.

The 26 design will take more HP than the 25 and use it effectively. Talk to the builder and see what they say. Although they did not design the boat--they have extensive experience in boat building, and can give you better information. There are a variety of engine combos on this boat. If you go to "our C Dorys" at the top, and go by model you will see that there are about 15 Venture 26 listed with motors from 150 to 225 Yahama, Several E=tec 150/175, mostly Honda 200. So someone has already exceeded the 200 hp recommendation. I would send a PM or e-mail to each of those owners and see what their thoughts are.
 
As somebody who owns a Venture 26 with twin Tohatsu 90s, I can say that I have never felt myself underpowered. Would I take less weight and more power on the back... absolutely!

That being said, I would only be interested if it came with more torque/less RPMs as opposed to the typical situation where you are gaining that extra 10HP another 800-1200RPM up the band.

Overall, I've been impressed with the Tohatsu 90s. Quiet, don't smell, lighter weight, reliable.

If I was going to repower with a 4 stroke, I would probably go Suzuki over Honda. I prefer the timing chain!
 
I consider the Cape Cruiser Marinaut (26) to be bow heavy in a following sea. I only fill my water tank half full to help keep the bow lighter while crossing the bar with the tide/current. I have a 200 HP Honda and 15 HP kicker. I wouldn't worry about the weight on the back of a 26. The boat can handle the extra weight on the transom.
 
Well, I hesitate to weigh in since your choice of twins has already been stated, but I am very happy with my setup of a 175 Etec main with a kicker. The boat hits 32 KTS at WOT with a light load and clean bottom. The fuel economy is good at about 5.5 GPH at 25 KTS and around 3.2 GPH where I normally cruise at 15 KTS.

I have found the opposite of what Forrest has experienced with his Cape Cruiser, even with the relatively light Etec, the boat becomes light in the bow when loaded for cruising or with several adults in the cockpit. The lighter weight of the Etec is important to me for that reason.

I prefer having a completely separate get home kicker system with an independent fuel supply--I know different strokes. The Etec has been reliable so far. I have about 400 hours on it. I have never had to use the kicker (knock on wood), but I like knowing it's there if I need it.

The Etec has a lot of torque and is great out the hole. It performs well across the speed range for my 26V. As I said, I'm happy with the setup and would recommend it for the 26V.
 
A Yamaha 200 hp weight 487 pounds no expensive oil to buy. Or the Yamaha 70'a as previously recommended. Lots of dealers everywhere. Four strokes seem to be the most popular for cruising. It's not a high speed hull. Good resale value. Imho.
D.D.
 
Morning Star,
We are describing two different situations. There is never any adults standing in the cockpit crossing the bar unless they want to get totally soaking wet. Also I have a freezer up in the v-berth that has processed salmon/bottomfish. That adds weight to the bow. When you're crossing a river bar with a 5-10 swell and wind chop on top of that, I find the last thing I want to happen is have the bow dig into the wave in front of me while being pushed by a following sea. There also could be differences in construction between Cape Cruiser and C-Dory versions. Is your water tank under the v-berth? I also have an anchor with 20 foot of chain and 300' of water soaked rope in the anchor locker.
 
Since Morning Star's boat is a 2008, I'm pretty sure it is after C-Dory took over the molds and the water tank is not in the V-berth like it is in the later CC models.

That being said, I wonder if the additional weight of your freezer isn't compounding the weight up front issue.

I'm running 35 feet of G4 and 300' feet of rope so we are similar there.

I don't find the bow to be nose heavy at all. In fact I bought permatrims to help keep the bow down and this is with the water tank up under the vberth.
 
haakebecks,
It's not a problem. I just like the bow lighter in a following sea. Following seas on a river bar can be really squirrelly. A lighter bow helps. The bow under normal conditions for cruising Puget Sound is perfect with a full tank. I have trim tabs and rarely use them. The exception being the two foot wind chop I usually encounter from Seattle to Everett while visiting my son. Trim tabs are really nice when you want to make time.
 
Forrest, I agree that bow up crossing a bar is a good thing. My comment was aimed at the balance of my 26V, not the technique for approaching waves with a following sea. I, too, have the water tank under the V-berth, 30' of chain, and 300' of rode. My description of loading the boat--with people or cruising gear--pertained to the balance of the boat in general, not bow trim crossing a bar. I find, like haakebecks, that the boat is light in the bow. It may be due to the Reynolds built 26V is different than the CC. For one thing, it is foam cored; I don't know if that alone would make a difference, but the glass layup schedule might have varied from the CC layup. It could be due to your freezer or other differences in how the boat is loaded. Anyway, I take no exception to your point about bow trim crossing a bar or that your CC26 lies heavy in the bow. I'm just offering that my experience with my particular 26V (hull #1) leads me to recommend light-weight motor rigging.
 
Back
Top