I am a new owner of a 22 and we decided on peck pipe, danforth, locker thru hull drain, and at the recommendation of dealer 150' of chain, no line rode at all. we are on chesapeake with primarily sand and mud bottoms and have used a fluke style on our old boat. but the all chain rode will be different, they maintain the weight balance thing said the 150' is the way to go. I guess I'm just reading threads about pro & cons and hope we did the right thing! thoughts...
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opinions on this setup
- Thread starter cpt vic
- Start date
There's a lot of material on this in previous threads. My version of a summary is that this setup seems to be the recommendation of one (or perhaps 2) east coast dealer(s) that has a very different idea about how to keep the bow down and what is required for anchoring. These two problems should really be decoupled. I would say that the summary recommendation from the experienced owners is
1) Use trim tabs to get the bow down and
2) Use 15-30' of chain with 150'-300' of line.
There's really no reason for that much chain unless you really want the exercise of pulling it up. A for the particular choice of anchor, it depends on the bottom where you will be anchoring. The danforth should be fine for the muddy bottoms you will be in most often but you might want to consider having a bruce also.
Roger on the SeaDNA
1) Use trim tabs to get the bow down and
2) Use 15-30' of chain with 150'-300' of line.
There's really no reason for that much chain unless you really want the exercise of pulling it up. A for the particular choice of anchor, it depends on the bottom where you will be anchoring. The danforth should be fine for the muddy bottoms you will be in most often but you might want to consider having a bruce also.
Roger on the SeaDNA
With all chain, unless you're a certified knuckle dragging weight lifter, you might consider a powered anchor windless, and then eliminate the deck pipe 'cause it will end up being just another hole.
I've noticed that one or two dealers on the Right coast advocate all chain rodes and use the weight issue as justification. Out here, most folks simply add trim tabs and go with 2-300 ft. of rope and 15-20 ft. of chain. Far easier to handle, especially if you don't want a windlass!
I've noticed that one or two dealers on the Right coast advocate all chain rodes and use the weight issue as justification. Out here, most folks simply add trim tabs and go with 2-300 ft. of rope and 15-20 ft. of chain. Far easier to handle, especially if you don't want a windlass!
I would think though that trying to feed rope line down thru the hawse pipe would not be the easiest thing and the chain would fall down better and not take up the space inside and not have the musty smell of wet line-- at least they seem to be the pros as i'm thinking time will tell i guess.. i am hoping that the drain thru hull will not be a problem . i see some think it's a bad idea , our old boat didn't have a roller and anchor and line and chain had to be stored under v berth and stayed wet in there . surely dealers would learn over the years what works and doesn't and the drain is not a conduit for moisture intrusion.
Here we go again on the All Chain Topic!
From piecing together various bits and pieces of information over the years, it would appear that Cutter Marine back on the East Coast has been setting up C-Dorys for some time with this preferred set up :
1. 100-150 feet of chain, 1/4" GS-4 High Test
2. Simpson Lawrence Sprint 600 vertical windlass
3. S/L Delta Fastset 14 lb anchor
4. S/L Pivoting Anchor Roller
5. suitable anchor swivel
6. not sure about the locker drain, but probably installed
(all of this subject to buyers's approval and modified by individual preferences, of course)
We've heard (and surmise) they do this for the following reasons:
The extra weight of chain (75- 112 lbs vs 25 or so for a conventional rope and short chain rode) helps do the following:
A. Balances the extra weight of modern four stroke engines (C-Dory 22 was designed for 2 strokes).
B. Drives the boat better through the short steep chop experienced on East Coast Bays (vs large swells on open oceans) This is done as an alternative to installing trim tabs.
C. Enables boat to use much shorter scope in crowded anchorages.
D. Keeps people guessing about this set up and gives us something to go over every so often.
From our previous discussions, it also becomes evident that:
1. Folks don't much care for the big chain approach who are more concerned with keeping the bow as light as possible so that it rides up easier in steep swells.
2. Neither to those who have to anchor in real deep situations where they need 300 -600 feet of rode. They obviously find the first 100-150 feet of chain to be both more chain than they need and too much extra weight and bulk to carry around.
So the all chain may not be for you.
Several of us do use it, however, finding that:
1. It does indeed hold the bow down in the chop and works like trim tabs in that respect. No adverse affect on boat balance noticeable.
2. We do indeed have to let out a lot less rode when anchoring.
3. The heavy chain helps quiet the boat's ride at anchor, and also helps minimize "searching" in wind shifts.
4. It definitely does not slip in a windlass, unlike some ropes.
5. Chain wears a lot less than rope, and doesn't have to be replaced, period.
There are undoubtably more pros and cons of this and other set ups, but I think you can see the major ones here. The choice depends on where and how you anchor and your individual preferences.
While I have 100' of chain followed by 150 feet of 1/2" rope as a primary set up, I also have a traditional 15" chain and 200' rope one for use where preferable.
The 100 feet of chain weighs 75 lbs, plus the anchor, the 150ft = 112lbs+anchor.
Have you ever tried to lift such a "animal"? Feels like you've got a Dead Lead Alligator by the tail!!! I can hardly move the 90 lbs or so of my set up by hand. I wouldn't have an all chain rode w/o a windlass. Good luck, whatever you choose! Joe.
From piecing together various bits and pieces of information over the years, it would appear that Cutter Marine back on the East Coast has been setting up C-Dorys for some time with this preferred set up :
1. 100-150 feet of chain, 1/4" GS-4 High Test
2. Simpson Lawrence Sprint 600 vertical windlass
3. S/L Delta Fastset 14 lb anchor
4. S/L Pivoting Anchor Roller
5. suitable anchor swivel
6. not sure about the locker drain, but probably installed
(all of this subject to buyers's approval and modified by individual preferences, of course)
We've heard (and surmise) they do this for the following reasons:
The extra weight of chain (75- 112 lbs vs 25 or so for a conventional rope and short chain rode) helps do the following:
A. Balances the extra weight of modern four stroke engines (C-Dory 22 was designed for 2 strokes).
B. Drives the boat better through the short steep chop experienced on East Coast Bays (vs large swells on open oceans) This is done as an alternative to installing trim tabs.
C. Enables boat to use much shorter scope in crowded anchorages.
D. Keeps people guessing about this set up and gives us something to go over every so often.
From our previous discussions, it also becomes evident that:
1. Folks don't much care for the big chain approach who are more concerned with keeping the bow as light as possible so that it rides up easier in steep swells.
2. Neither to those who have to anchor in real deep situations where they need 300 -600 feet of rode. They obviously find the first 100-150 feet of chain to be both more chain than they need and too much extra weight and bulk to carry around.
So the all chain may not be for you.
Several of us do use it, however, finding that:
1. It does indeed hold the bow down in the chop and works like trim tabs in that respect. No adverse affect on boat balance noticeable.
2. We do indeed have to let out a lot less rode when anchoring.
3. The heavy chain helps quiet the boat's ride at anchor, and also helps minimize "searching" in wind shifts.
4. It definitely does not slip in a windlass, unlike some ropes.
5. Chain wears a lot less than rope, and doesn't have to be replaced, period.
There are undoubtably more pros and cons of this and other set ups, but I think you can see the major ones here. The choice depends on where and how you anchor and your individual preferences.
While I have 100' of chain followed by 150 feet of 1/2" rope as a primary set up, I also have a traditional 15" chain and 200' rope one for use where preferable.
The 100 feet of chain weighs 75 lbs, plus the anchor, the 150ft = 112lbs+anchor.
Have you ever tried to lift such a "animal"? Feels like you've got a Dead Lead Alligator by the tail!!! I can hardly move the 90 lbs or so of my set up by hand. I wouldn't have an all chain rode w/o a windlass. Good luck, whatever you choose! Joe.
well i hope i'm not upsetting anyone i know it has been discussed before.. i'm just a newbie with this web site we have...
danforth anchor
hawse pipe with chain tension clamp
150' chain
locker thru hull drain
and yes we are dealing with cutter marine( satisfactorily at this point) nice folks.
oh and yes trim tabs as welll
i can appreciate the differences in the waters encountered. so i guess different strokes as they say perhaps the c brats on east coast can relate to this setup . but appreciate any replies
danforth anchor
hawse pipe with chain tension clamp
150' chain
locker thru hull drain
and yes we are dealing with cutter marine( satisfactorily at this point) nice folks.
oh and yes trim tabs as welll
i can appreciate the differences in the waters encountered. so i guess different strokes as they say perhaps the c brats on east coast can relate to this setup . but appreciate any replies
cpt vic-
No problem with the topic or the questions! Just having a little fun with the humor, intending to lighten up the latest installment!!!
There are a number of questions that keep coming up which, simply because of their complex nature, makes it difficult for us to give a definitive final answer. But it keeps us on our toes and makes us re-think them, which is good!
One more thought- Some of these very topics have so many facets that it is impossible to hit every aspect every time. If you're still wondering after the discssion has seemed to run its course, and want the absolute, all-inclusive answer, you might have a look at the archived discussions. There are bits and pieces to be found not just in the threads with obvious titles, but in the related ones as well. Kind of reminds me of gathring information for a research paper, but at least the topic is Red-Hot Center Focus Interesting!!!
Nice talking with you! Joe.
No problem with the topic or the questions! Just having a little fun with the humor, intending to lighten up the latest installment!!!
There are a number of questions that keep coming up which, simply because of their complex nature, makes it difficult for us to give a definitive final answer. But it keeps us on our toes and makes us re-think them, which is good!
One more thought- Some of these very topics have so many facets that it is impossible to hit every aspect every time. If you're still wondering after the discssion has seemed to run its course, and want the absolute, all-inclusive answer, you might have a look at the archived discussions. There are bits and pieces to be found not just in the threads with obvious titles, but in the related ones as well. Kind of reminds me of gathring information for a research paper, but at least the topic is Red-Hot Center Focus Interesting!!!
Nice talking with you! Joe.
Something I learned on the DS trip this year was how fast 300ft of chain can exit a boat if the windlass clutch slips! This happened to my friends on a charter boat while I was on board. We were in 20ft of water and you would not want to be near that chain as it flew out of the locker. It could easily take of fingers or worse.
Also you should tied the bitter end to the boat. But with 300 ft of chain flying out if it was stopped suddenly you may have some damage to the boat. I would suggest at least 60 ft of line tied to the end of the chain and to the boat. Then if it does freefall out it will stop when all the chain is on the bottom ( usually you are not anchoring in 60ft +). Then you can just pull it up with the rope.
Steve
Also you should tied the bitter end to the boat. But with 300 ft of chain flying out if it was stopped suddenly you may have some damage to the boat. I would suggest at least 60 ft of line tied to the end of the chain and to the boat. Then if it does freefall out it will stop when all the chain is on the bottom ( usually you are not anchoring in 60ft +). Then you can just pull it up with the rope.
Steve
Otter-BelleHavenMarina
Moderator
Excellent summary, Sea Wolf! Cpt. Vic, no problem asking views - that's what this site is all about. You just happened to hit on a topic that's been a past favorite.
Got my boat from Cutter in 2001 and have the same set up you do (but no trim tabs). The average depth of the Chesapeake is just 30 feet and in most places you'll be anchoring in less. So hauling up anchor chain is not the same back breaker it would be if we were anchoring regularly in greater depths. I personally like having the extra pounds up in the bow. If I had trim tabs that helped keep the bow down in an oncoming chop, that might not be as much of a bonus, but I don't think it adversely affects the trim of the boat. I've been in heavy following seas where you don't want the bow diving, and I've had no problem keeping it in good trim with adjustments to the motor tilt.
As far as anchors go, the simple danforth works fine in Chesepeake mud. Other anchors hold better in different conditions, but for this area, the danforth is more than adequate.
Suggest using a short line from the bow cleat to the chain as a keeper when underway. The little doo-hickey that flips down over a link in the chain can pop up in a sea.
Best wishes and happy boating,
Got my boat from Cutter in 2001 and have the same set up you do (but no trim tabs). The average depth of the Chesapeake is just 30 feet and in most places you'll be anchoring in less. So hauling up anchor chain is not the same back breaker it would be if we were anchoring regularly in greater depths. I personally like having the extra pounds up in the bow. If I had trim tabs that helped keep the bow down in an oncoming chop, that might not be as much of a bonus, but I don't think it adversely affects the trim of the boat. I've been in heavy following seas where you don't want the bow diving, and I've had no problem keeping it in good trim with adjustments to the motor tilt.
As far as anchors go, the simple danforth works fine in Chesepeake mud. Other anchors hold better in different conditions, but for this area, the danforth is more than adequate.
Suggest using a short line from the bow cleat to the chain as a keeper when underway. The little doo-hickey that flips down over a link in the chain can pop up in a sea.
Best wishes and happy boating,
Weight in the ends of the boat makes the hull hobby horse. Especially weight in the bow. Akin to a pendelum effect. More weight in the bow the more difficult it is to stop this motion. That in itself is a reason to not use all chain unless you can stow it elsewhere.
Also makes the bow less responsive to meeting on coming waves or chop.
Western Lake Erie is so shallow there are ship channels thru it! No need for all that chain here.
-- Chuck
Also makes the bow less responsive to meeting on coming waves or chop.
Western Lake Erie is so shallow there are ship channels thru it! No need for all that chain here.
-- Chuck
Chuck-
I know what you're saying! In a sailboat (a background we share in common), there's nothing deadlier to kill speed than weight in the ends of the boat. Incredible lengths are gone to lighten the ends to allow the bow and stern to work up and over each wave more efficiently and with less lost energy. No argument here!
But in powerboats, I think we may have a little different animal to play with. We have more than enough power to be a little brutish and maintain our speed.
In fact, we can maintain better speed in a relatively flat bottomed boat like the C-Dory by using trim tabs or a little weight forward to keep the pointy end immersed deeper so that we can more efficiently break the waves and go faster without so much pounding. Kind of makes the boat into more of a displacement cutter than a planing skimmer, bouncing along from one wave to another.
Just another theory and my $0.02! Joe.
I know what you're saying! In a sailboat (a background we share in common), there's nothing deadlier to kill speed than weight in the ends of the boat. Incredible lengths are gone to lighten the ends to allow the bow and stern to work up and over each wave more efficiently and with less lost energy. No argument here!
But in powerboats, I think we may have a little different animal to play with. We have more than enough power to be a little brutish and maintain our speed.
In fact, we can maintain better speed in a relatively flat bottomed boat like the C-Dory by using trim tabs or a little weight forward to keep the pointy end immersed deeper so that we can more efficiently break the waves and go faster without so much pounding. Kind of makes the boat into more of a displacement cutter than a planing skimmer, bouncing along from one wave to another.
Just another theory and my $0.02! Joe.