We had a small rain last night (Southern California Standards), I keep the boat in the driveway at a small incline towards the street (bow down). I went to remove the rain water that collects where the porta potty sits and I noticed a small amount of water coming up from a black flat plug about 1 1/2" round, I pulled the plug and water came gushing out of the hole. I bought the boat new 13 years ago and never thought about water going thru and into the hull? Does anybody know about this black flat plug sitting under the porta potty? and how do I proceed on drying out the hull? Some times I keep the boat covered, most not, because I am always trying to go out fishing.
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Odd thing happened this morning?
- Thread starter bschell
- Start date
starcrafttom
Active member
Pull the plug and get a wet vac and see how much water you can get out. You will have to do it many times. vac and wait 30 mins for more water to drain down and vac again. Thats about two days. Then reverse your dry vac and blow air in there for two days. Then let it drain again. Once you are sure you got it dry you can decide what you want to do about the source of the leak.
Unless you have a most unusual boat, the cockpit, and cabin floor, up to the bulkhead separating the fore peak from the rest of the boat, is the inner side of the bottom laminate of the hull. Outside, glass matt, cloth and roving. 3/4" thick balsa core, and then cloth and mat, several layers--which you walk on.
I do not understand your post:
"
There may be a sump inside of the aft cabin bulkhead, and should be a sump all of the way aft. Bilge pumps have been placed in both places (and a few others) by the factory. Many boat owners have bilge pumps in both locations.
Only newer boats, I believe 2007 on, have a fully glass in, or "sealed" floor of the cockpit. For example my 2006 boat has the removable two floor boards of fiberglass which can be removed. My close friend just bought a 2007 boat which has the fully glass in aft deck.
None of this is related to the water which is coming out of the "plug". That is on top of the V berth fiberglass molding, and has been glassed into the hull. Some boats have a plug there, some have nothing there, some have had foam injected there. Usually when there is water collecting under the head platform it is from the anchor locker, or brass strip. It is also possible that there is a crack or delaminating area of the place where this potty platform is tabbed into the bottom of the hull. There is a space between the bottom of the hull,(which is solid glass from the V Berth bulkhead forward, and the potty platform.
If there is water in the cabin, on the top of the bottom hull--there are several ways it can get in there. One is from the cockpit--usually there is a hole in the aft cabin bulkhead--may be a slot, or have a screw in or expansive plug.
If you describe the "bilge" as being inside the cabin, I assume that you have a pump intake there. There should be a slot or hole from the cockpit floor.
There also should be some fiberglass molding on the floor inside the cabin, with a step over it--where the pump intake is located. That may have a leak thru its tabbing to the floor in the cabin. There could be leaks under the aft bulkhead, there could be leaks thru the hull to deck joint in the cabin, or there could be some area up on the cabin which is leaking (for example I have a small leak around one window under certain circumstances, and also around a hand rail, which have been repaired.
In any case, dry out that forward area. I would check to be sure that the foam under the V berth is not saturated with water--it can add considerable weight with water in the foam. If there is water there, then you need to look specifically at the brass strip fasteners or the floor of the anchor locker.
I do not understand your post:
"
The bilge is midship on the 2003 22', just inside the galley door. everything aft of that is sealed deck, but thanks for the reply, this is a great forum for those of us who own, but have no clue...
There may be a sump inside of the aft cabin bulkhead, and should be a sump all of the way aft. Bilge pumps have been placed in both places (and a few others) by the factory. Many boat owners have bilge pumps in both locations.
Only newer boats, I believe 2007 on, have a fully glass in, or "sealed" floor of the cockpit. For example my 2006 boat has the removable two floor boards of fiberglass which can be removed. My close friend just bought a 2007 boat which has the fully glass in aft deck.
None of this is related to the water which is coming out of the "plug". That is on top of the V berth fiberglass molding, and has been glassed into the hull. Some boats have a plug there, some have nothing there, some have had foam injected there. Usually when there is water collecting under the head platform it is from the anchor locker, or brass strip. It is also possible that there is a crack or delaminating area of the place where this potty platform is tabbed into the bottom of the hull. There is a space between the bottom of the hull,(which is solid glass from the V Berth bulkhead forward, and the potty platform.
If there is water in the cabin, on the top of the bottom hull--there are several ways it can get in there. One is from the cockpit--usually there is a hole in the aft cabin bulkhead--may be a slot, or have a screw in or expansive plug.
If you describe the "bilge" as being inside the cabin, I assume that you have a pump intake there. There should be a slot or hole from the cockpit floor.
There also should be some fiberglass molding on the floor inside the cabin, with a step over it--where the pump intake is located. That may have a leak thru its tabbing to the floor in the cabin. There could be leaks under the aft bulkhead, there could be leaks thru the hull to deck joint in the cabin, or there could be some area up on the cabin which is leaking (for example I have a small leak around one window under certain circumstances, and also around a hand rail, which have been repaired.
In any case, dry out that forward area. I would check to be sure that the foam under the V berth is not saturated with water--it can add considerable weight with water in the foam. If there is water there, then you need to look specifically at the brass strip fasteners or the floor of the anchor locker.
breausaw":2bw6saxp said:If you could figure out a way to park you're boat with the stern down all the water would collect in the aft bilge. I assume your not able to park your boat in this fashion because your driveway only allows you to back in. Perhaps you could jack up the tung?
Not on a 22. On the 22, the area he is speaking about is essentially the area under the v-berth. The cabin and cockpit floor are on and the same - fiberglass encased balsa from one end to the other. There's no void under the floor. It's fiberglass, balsa and then the outer fiberglass of hull.
The area under the v-berth (where the porta potty sits) is a void space that is typically filled with foam (but in some boats doesn't have much foam). The foam ranges from spray in foam to blocks of foam depending on when it was manufactured. In this area of the hull, it's just a fiberglass skin all around. Water in this area generally comes from one of a few sources - penetrations of screws holding on a brass strip keel protector on the bow, openings in the anchor locker and occasionally leaks around the rub rail.
The good news is that in general, water that collects here is generally separated from the balsa core by fiberglass that is almost never penetrated. So mostly this are just needs to be dried out and the source of the leak found and fixed. Assuming this is the typical 22 with the spray in foam, it may take a long time to dry out the huge "sponge" that is now saturated with water. It might be faster to open up the v-birth compartment and remove the foam. Many have done that and it provides extra storage. It also will make it easier to see if the leak is coming from the bow strip.
I kind of missed that part about the bow being down. That's a red flag. You want that bow up absolutely
Your sumps aren't really part of the equation on the trailer, nor are your bilge pumps. regardless of whether this affects your issue with water collecting under the v berth, you should keep your transom plug out and your bow slightly up when on the trailer. A cover wouldn't change this. There is just no reason to have the bow down on the trailer.
If you are space limited, backing into your driveway, you need a tallish block that is about the height to fit under your trailer frame behind the coupler and jack stand with the jack stand nearly to full height. You will also need to have several blocks of 2x material. I like wider stuff like 2x8 or 2x10, cut in about 1' lengths.
You jack up your trailer, but the large block under, block the wheels and then lower the jack stand all the way up so it is off the ground and the boat is resting on the block. Then you put your 2x8 pieces under the jack stand and crank it up again. The trailer will lift off the block, so you put the same number of 2x8 pieces under the block and lower the trailer down onto that.
You repeat this process until your bow is up and water drains out the transom drain. This may fix your problem. Perhaps you only have water in your v berth because the boat is stored bow-down.
Your vintage boat does not have a truly sealed cockpit sole. Many of these collect water.
As I mentioned, this may or may not fix your issue, but should be done regardless. It is the most likely and simplest reason why you might have this issue, but there are other reasons water collects here. Let the process of elimination begin!
Your sumps aren't really part of the equation on the trailer, nor are your bilge pumps. regardless of whether this affects your issue with water collecting under the v berth, you should keep your transom plug out and your bow slightly up when on the trailer. A cover wouldn't change this. There is just no reason to have the bow down on the trailer.
If you are space limited, backing into your driveway, you need a tallish block that is about the height to fit under your trailer frame behind the coupler and jack stand with the jack stand nearly to full height. You will also need to have several blocks of 2x material. I like wider stuff like 2x8 or 2x10, cut in about 1' lengths.
You jack up your trailer, but the large block under, block the wheels and then lower the jack stand all the way up so it is off the ground and the boat is resting on the block. Then you put your 2x8 pieces under the jack stand and crank it up again. The trailer will lift off the block, so you put the same number of 2x8 pieces under the block and lower the trailer down onto that.
You repeat this process until your bow is up and water drains out the transom drain. This may fix your problem. Perhaps you only have water in your v berth because the boat is stored bow-down.
Your vintage boat does not have a truly sealed cockpit sole. Many of these collect water.
As I mentioned, this may or may not fix your issue, but should be done regardless. It is the most likely and simplest reason why you might have this issue, but there are other reasons water collects here. Let the process of elimination begin!
I owned in 07 22 foot for 5 years and have a buddy will an 05, I know the layout of both of these boats very well.bschell":f7f81n22 said:The bilge is midship on the 2003 22', just inside the galley door. everything aft of that is sealed deck, but thanks for the reply, this is a great forum for those of us who own, but have no clue...
If the hull is down water is going to ceep under the cabin bulkhead and work its way forward, in your case it's obviously been happening for some time.
The only way to prevent this from happening is having the aft sump the lowest point in the boat, then with plug pulled the water will naturally drain.
If it has taken this long for the water to finally show itself around the plug in the porta potty area it most likely means the foam is saturated behind the bulkhead.
Thank you all for the information! it is all spot on. The foam is saturated and nasty looking, I can't imagine that it will ever dry out. I think the only reason it is their could be for sound buffer? I will need to open up the V-birth compartment and remove the nasty stuff, and then I will design some trick storage for more Items to store. The boat has over 3000 Hours on It and still looks as sweet as the day we brought her home. If the foam is for a sound buffer I will not worry much, I changed out all the anchor rope and I am all chain now. This adds the ballast I need and she rides like a cloud, the best thing I ever did. Again, thank you all for your post.
bschell,
A C-Brat's boat named Plan C had this same problem. It turned out to be a problem with the drain in the anchor locker. The locker floor and the hull are two separate parts, bonded together. The drain hole was drilled too low and went thru both parts where they were not bonded together. This allowed the water to go down into the space under the bunk. The water came in while Plan C was operating in waves. Every time a wave came up higher than the drain, water went into the under-bunk space.
The problem was solved by bonding in a drain tube from the anchor locker bottom, out thru and sealed to the hull.
Hope this helps,
A C-Brat's boat named Plan C had this same problem. It turned out to be a problem with the drain in the anchor locker. The locker floor and the hull are two separate parts, bonded together. The drain hole was drilled too low and went thru both parts where they were not bonded together. This allowed the water to go down into the space under the bunk. The water came in while Plan C was operating in waves. Every time a wave came up higher than the drain, water went into the under-bunk space.
The problem was solved by bonding in a drain tube from the anchor locker bottom, out thru and sealed to the hull.
Hope this helps,
Here's an interesting and informative thread on foam removal due to water saturation, a discussion on why manufacturers use spray-in foam, recommendations on replacing it, and coast guard regulations with regard to flotation and stability.
Lets just say I'm glad my boat of choice is a C-Dory, not a Hewescraft.
http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/sho ... s-Foam-Fun
Lets just say I'm glad my boat of choice is a C-Dory, not a Hewescraft.
http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/sho ... s-Foam-Fun
Water appeared at the same spot in the '07 CD22 I bought last year. The plug itself was to fill one of the holes where the factory injected foamed-in-place flotation. Removing the plug showed the subfloor area filled with water on my boat, as on yours.
After sucking and sponging as much as possible I decided to put a 6 inch inspection port where the plug had been. Photos of doing this are on the Pangur Ban photo page. I used a router, a spiral upcut bit and a circle guide to cut the hole (took several passes of increasing depth, very neat) but you could do it with a sabre saw -- just be sure the blade doesn't strike the hull itself. The inspection port is watertight and sits so close to the floor that it doesn't interfere with the porta-potty. Now I can look to see if any more water has come in, and even use the area to store small items if needed.
Once the port was installed I found that a 6-inch "duct booster fan" from Lowe's would fit perfectly on top of the open hole. I kept it there for days after installing the port (in the driveway) and it did a good job drying out the area.
Maybe the water came from accumulated rain that got through the floor-to-hull joints either near the gas tanks or inside the cabin, maybe through the locker under the helmsman's feet, if the previous owner had left the windows open in the rain (I'd found water there). I know the boat sat outside for a year before I got it. But...
Then I went out and sat inside the forward cabin in a rainstorm. I found a LOT of places water was dripping in: around both portholes (my boat has 2 up there), beneath all 4 bow pulpit stanchions, and below almost every deck fitting. I re-bedded all of them with butyl putty or Lifecaulk. (Don't use 5200 or 4200 for this; they are adhesives, not caulk. And silicone is a caulk but not durable enough for bedding the deck fittings, IMHO.) The factory bedding had dried up and in some places disappeared.
After sucking and sponging as much as possible I decided to put a 6 inch inspection port where the plug had been. Photos of doing this are on the Pangur Ban photo page. I used a router, a spiral upcut bit and a circle guide to cut the hole (took several passes of increasing depth, very neat) but you could do it with a sabre saw -- just be sure the blade doesn't strike the hull itself. The inspection port is watertight and sits so close to the floor that it doesn't interfere with the porta-potty. Now I can look to see if any more water has come in, and even use the area to store small items if needed.
Once the port was installed I found that a 6-inch "duct booster fan" from Lowe's would fit perfectly on top of the open hole. I kept it there for days after installing the port (in the driveway) and it did a good job drying out the area.
Maybe the water came from accumulated rain that got through the floor-to-hull joints either near the gas tanks or inside the cabin, maybe through the locker under the helmsman's feet, if the previous owner had left the windows open in the rain (I'd found water there). I know the boat sat outside for a year before I got it. But...
Then I went out and sat inside the forward cabin in a rainstorm. I found a LOT of places water was dripping in: around both portholes (my boat has 2 up there), beneath all 4 bow pulpit stanchions, and below almost every deck fitting. I re-bedded all of them with butyl putty or Lifecaulk. (Don't use 5200 or 4200 for this; they are adhesives, not caulk. And silicone is a caulk but not durable enough for bedding the deck fittings, IMHO.) The factory bedding had dried up and in some places disappeared.
Also, I found water sitting in the bottom of the anchor locker because the drain hole had been drilled about 1 inch higher than the bottom of the well. Of course it could freeze there in the winter and do more damage. In my boat it was possible to remove the little chrome splash cover outside, make the hole bigger, and replace the cover. A friend with the same problem found that he could buy a larger cover so he drilled an even larger hole.
Yes. It really wasn't hard after I got organized. Lots of folks have put hatches in the v-berths to get storage but any water will always run down to the lowest point anyway. The deck port does a good job.
Be sure to look for leaks in your front cabin too. Couldn't believe how many I had.
Be sure to look for leaks in your front cabin too. Couldn't believe how many I had.
Ref Anchor locker. On my 2006 boat, there was no outlet to the outside, and there was no good floor in the anchor locker.--water could get between the hull and the molding for the "V" Berth. Solution was to drill a hole for water egress, and cover with the mini vent cover.
I made a floor by filling the void between the hull/V berth molding with glass mat and epoxy (mat which is compatible with epoxy--not all mat is) One could use polyester or vinyl ester, but epoxy has better secondary bonding.
Once this was filled, I used thickened epoxy (peanut butter consistency, to smooth the floor, and then fitted a piece of 6 oz glass cloth, when that went off, filled the surface smooth with a thickened epoxy. No standing water, no leaking under the V berth.
I made a floor by filling the void between the hull/V berth molding with glass mat and epoxy (mat which is compatible with epoxy--not all mat is) One could use polyester or vinyl ester, but epoxy has better secondary bonding.
Once this was filled, I used thickened epoxy (peanut butter consistency, to smooth the floor, and then fitted a piece of 6 oz glass cloth, when that went off, filled the surface smooth with a thickened epoxy. No standing water, no leaking under the V berth.