NO MORE!!!"Pinholes" leaking water into dinette st

CatyMae n Steve,
Just in case someone is a mind reader, I'd better clarify my post. The boat has been at the dealers for three weeks, most of the time trying to arrange transport back to the factory, it has only been at the factory for about a week now. The majority of the time has been trying to find a commercial boat transport company who can haul it across the border back into Washington, without getting arrested, as I do not have a vehicle capable of towing it that far or the time if I did. So I'm not really meaning to yell and scream at any one at this point. Its just that I miss Meander :cry and its frustrating to buy something new and still have the kind of problems that can cost this amount of time to get corrected. I'm sure the factory will get the problem fixed, but the added time to ship is a complication that isn't fun for me or the factory.

Ron
 
I picked up the CatyMae at the factory today and stopped off at the dealers on the way home for them to replace the bilge because the factory said it was wired wrong and there wasn't anything wrong with it because they direct wired it to the battery and it worked fine... (it wasn't -- the wires weren't waterproofed when it was installed, laying in water, consequently rusted out and shorted out the automatic part and pulled apart, so the dealer installed a new one).

Our boat still leaks. I guess I'd like to see a poll taken by our pals here and see how many leaks are permissible in a new 60k boat???? Tonight, I got a couple of pictures where the light actually reflected on the water, so you can see them...pretty much the only way to see the water is with a flashlight reflecting on the leaks -- I'll post them in our album.

I'm thinking we have a lemon, since they assured me they absolutely fixed the boat and tested it and it didn't leak...I'm here to say it DOES leak. Steve ran a hose on the side for about 3 minutes to simulate Oregon rain....5 minutes later, the very same spots as before were puking water down the wall....it's NOT fixed.

It's great to see all of your kudos to their work, but we have none for them at this point. :amgry
 
Ron.... I can not believe that. I would call Jeff or Scott for sure on this. I think I would also let them come get the boat after the trip back to the factory to fix it. This does not sound at all like anything I have heard from our factory. You are 100% correct on 60K and the boat leaking in the 1st place...but after a trip back to the factory...not just any ol fix it shop... I am left wondering what gives here.

Gang...what am I missing here?
 
The only thing I can think of is it is sweating from cold air hitting warmer cabin air where it can come in the hole where the control cables are. I have had water on the inside of mine (noticed it when I changed out the Wallas and was inside the cabinet with my back to the wall -- got wet) when we had a cooler day and I had the inside buttoned up. Water vapor (and water) can also blow in that hole and coat the wall with a very light mist of water that looks like leakage (mine is solved now with a towel in the cable control hole).

Other than that I'm at a loss too -- just doesn't make sense to me. These boats are operated everywhere in the world without this kind of problem (a real leak).
 
I to experienced the pinhole problem in the cabin last Feb. when I took delivery of my new 22.Very frusrating and I can sympathize with those of you having this same problem.It took me a while to figure out where the water was coming in until I discovered the flashlight trick in the cabin.No apparent voids at all on the exterior .(About 10 inches below rub rail even with helm is where the pin hole was)I did contact factory as thoughts of old Uniflite blisters and delaminating come to mind but ended up calking the rub rail and then sealing the pinholes and have not had any problem since.I am certain the water was coming in from the rub rail holes and it would probably be a good preventive measure to seal entire rail.Good luck. Paul
 
flagold":1ruqku0m said:
The only thing I can think of is it is sweating from cold air hitting warmer cabin air where it can come in the hole where the control cables are. I have had water on the inside of mine (noticed it when I changed out the Wallas and was inside the cabinet with my back to the wall -- got wet) when we had a cooler day and I had the inside buttoned up. Water vapor (and water) can also blow in that hole and coat the wall with a very light mist of water that looks like leakage (mine is solved now with a towel in the cable control hole).

Other than that I'm at a loss too -- just doesn't make sense to me. These boats are operated everywhere in the world without this kind of problem (a real leak).
Click to expand...

It was relatively dry until we simulated rain with the hose. You can see (with a flashlight) the little streams of water coming thru the wall from the holes and follow it to where each pools up. Controls are at the helm, not under the dinette table where the leaks are, so it's not the hole where the cables are. The factory said they did the rubrail fix...if that's so, the water's coming in through the wall from somewhere else. Seems to me that when we get a few days freezing temps, that'll expand...what happens to water inside under fiberglass surface? Expands, right?

Adam (at the factory) also said they repainted the walls where the holes appeared to be...I do NOT want water sealed into the walls either...I want a boat that doesn't leak!
 
CatyMae n Steve:

Earlier you stated:

"We stored her under the shelter last night, checked this morning and there was no water, so we ran the hose on her and voila...water trickling inside, both port and starboard sides." -- so now I assume the starboard side is fixed (where the cables go through). Is that right?

Earlier I stated:

"Why not go out there tonight -- one on the outside with a flashlight shining the hull, one on the inside looking for light with a marker. Mark the holes (if there are any)."

-- you might have gotten thrown off by a smarty-remark, but that is the sure way to find the holes and mark them for factory repair or a simple glass by yourself (Bondo glass is just fine). Mark the holes before taking the boat back (or, take the boat back and forth numerous times until they find them on their own) is my advice. Pinholes in fiberglass are difficult to find -- but you evidently have a jump on everyone else on the location -- so help out and mark them.

Any water in the pinhole will expand and go out the hole -- it will leave a bump on the outside, or melt and drain on the inside and leave room for expansion.

Check the rub-rail rivets on the inside -- are they all sealed (all along the entire length)? If not, spread some sealant over any exposed rivet and check for leakage again.
__________________________________________
I know it's frustrating. Good luck!
 
CatyMae n Steve,
Meander is still at the factory. I sure hope that they manage to get Meander's leaks on the first try. She's been at the factory for over two weeks now and its still going to be awhile before they get it done.
Its frustrating that it takes this long to get repaired but it must be even more frustrating when you get it back and its still not fixed. Good luck with getting it dealt with.
Ron
 
If the water is coming in the side of the hull it must be going thru the Balsa Coring? Go to a Marina or your local hardwood flooring store and bum a moisture meter and check it out. You need the flat kind not the one with two points.
C-Otter
 
Caty Mae and Steve,

I feel your frustration, I had a problem with my current boat ( not CDory)taking on water , only it was alot more because it was built to be self bailing but the factory made the floor too close to the water line. So instead of letting water out it took water in and down into the bilge. My bilge pump would run every three to five minutes while trolling, just to clear the water and even when sitting at the dock with no one in it it would take on water. It was an obvious design flaw,and caused other problems with corrosion. It took alot of pushing and almost seven months to get the problem solved. They now make the floor higher on that particular boat, and I am awaiting a brand new hull from them. I am trading it in for a Cdory. I would call someone at the C Dory factory and talk to them explaining your frustration. I'm sure they will take care of it, They seemed to have much better customer service than the company I previously bought from. I 'm sure it will take time and understand the frustaration you must have, but in the end I believe you will be taken care of. Don't give up. At least salmon fishing isn't red hot to boot.

Sark
 
You might try something like this to positively ID the location of the leaks and assist the factory in getting the problem fixed.

Paint the inside of the hull in the suspect area with water soluble paint. The leaks should wash off or run the paint from the point of origin.

Might be worth a try...

stevej
 
C-Otter":2jiqi3k8 said:
If the water is coming in the side of the hull it must be going thru the Balsa Coring? Go to a Marina or your local hardwood flooring store and bum a moisture meter and check it out. You need the flat kind not the one with two points.
C-Otter
Click to expand...
Can such a meter tell if water's trapped in the wall? How does it work? They're taking it back to the factory again and I'm scared to death they're going to seal the entire interior, not really fix the problem and we'll have water sealed in the porous walls...I don't have warm and fuzzies about all this at all. Jeff said he has no control over Adam who did the work...who does?
 
On the hull the balsa is only in the bottom. There is no balsa in the sides. I have pictures in my album of the 25 under construction and you can see exactly where the balsa is. The 22 is the same construction.
 
stevej":2toufwks said:
You might try something like this to positively ID the location of the leaks and assist the factory in getting the problem fixed.

Paint the inside of the hull in the suspect area with water soluble paint. The leaks should wash off or run the paint from the point of origin.

Might be worth a try...

stevej
Click to expand...
Before it went back to the factory the first time, Steve marked the holes with a blue flo pen...the dealer scrubbed them all off before taking it to the factory...good idea tho!
 
I am very disappointed that we did not fix the leak on CatyMae the first time that we had it here. CatyMae arrived back here a few minutes ago. Scot and I will be keeping a close eye on her and her repair. The pin hole leaks of water are not coming through the hull of the boat. Shining a light from the exterior would only show that the boat is solid fiberglass. The 22' C-Dory hull sides are solid fiberglass and have no coring where moisture could collect. A moisture meter is used to check for moisture in a coring material. The water is actually coming in behind the rub rail between the hull and deck joint and runnning down the interior of the boat between the hull of the boat and the fiberglass strip that we use to bond the hull and deck. It then appears halfway down the hull sides. We will remove the rubrail seal the joint between the hull and deck and install a new rub rail. CatyMae will be sealed from the outside. This leak is completely unsatisfactory and a real nuisance, however it does not effect the integrity of the boat. Thank you to Steve and Caty for giving us the oppportunity to get it right.
 
I'm very happy to see C-Dory company post in to this concern, as all owners are watching for a factory response that shows concern and integrety for our faith in their product and our investment. We are not a club without the manufacturers support for their products and our concerns--right?
Hardbarked & Bluebacked
 
well i have been following this story and will be taking delivery in the spring of an '06 ,22 and now i'm hoping that the catymae problem is an isolated incident, in otherwords not a current production problem. ( i am feeling their pain while reading this unfolding) so tell me what i should look for... not the flashlight thru hull thing?. or just any unacounted for water anywhere or what? i have great expectations for the quality of our new boat and that justisfying the cost.
 
I have been following your horror story pretty closely, and I have to pretty much agree with what Jeff posted. I would have more readily agreed with the explanation had it been offered a little futher up in the discussion, but I am still grateful to see it. The hull walls are fiberglass - which I don't think is absolutely impermeable without a sealer - and are not cored with wood or anything else. The sealer is the gelcoat. Without visible surface flaws in the exterior gelcoat, it would be very hard for me to imagine it having pinholes. On the inside, they paint the glass mostly because it is ugly without the paint. You should be pretty safe believing that the water is coming through the joint behind the rubrail. My boat had a section of that joint that wasn't sealed, and it gave me a nasty amount of water inside. I sealed it by pumping silicone into the void behind the rubrail aluminum mounting channel.

If you really believe - and I sure wouldn't blame you for having doubts - that the water is going through the hull material itself, here's something you can try when you get it back. Since you know where your suspected leaks are it would be easy to tape some heavy plastic sheeting to the outside of the hull to form a pocket that would hold a gallon or two of water. Use some visqueen and duct tape to make you a good pouch around and under the suspect part below the rubrail. Then fill it with water and let it sit for a while. If it migrates through the glass, your problem is for sure. If it does not, then go up close to the bow and let a small stream of hose water run over the top of the rub rail and watch your spots. Those two tests will tell you for sure. Don't mistake condensation for leakage during the plastic pouch test, though. There is a chance with the cold weather that the entire area inside hull adjacent to the pouch will get damp. You will be watching for a trickle or drops in individual spots.

A little spot in the joint between the top and bottom, which is behind the rub rail, can let in a lot more water than you might think. The aluminum channel acts as a trough to funnel and hold the water, so it isn't just the one spot the water has to hit, it is collected by any part of the rail channel that is higher than the leak.

And there is no need to worry about trapped water freezing and busting the glass or gelcoat. Even if there are flaws in the glass, the tiny amounts of water that might be held in the pinholes will evaporate (like in "freeze dry") long before it develops sufficient pressure to burst anything.

I am thinking that your leak is coming from above where you see the droplets collect. Give them a good chance to seal the entire seam behind the rail before you buy a Bayliner. But if it still leaks - whoa - maybe we'll go in together for a package deal on the Bayliners.
 
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